Thread Drift: Was what happened to Peter Parker in Amazing Spider-Man 700 really ever resolved?

[Thinker4730]

The story revealed that Peter got stabbed with that golden octobot. Then the next issue their brains were rewritten. We did NOT see the entire process.

We DO know that it wasn't an instant thing. Hell, the sheer act of what happens proves it wasn't a mind swap per se. Otherwise, Peter wouldn't be fighting SpOck because his "mind" would have been in the gold octobot. The whole story points to this being a "mind reformatting" as opposed to a mind swap.

It points to the Peter in Ock's body being a clone of his brain, pure and simple. The Peter Parker we see now is the original. That's the way Slott has meant for it to be, that's the way it IS. That should be the end of it really.

In the preview of Amazing Spider-Man #5 it states that it was a swapping of minds that Doc Ock performed not brain waves being rewritten in the introduction page...and Slott himself wrote that.

Go to the Amazing Spider-Man #5 preview thread and check it out for yourself.

If you continue to not accept what I've been saying after the writer pretty much confirms it without directly saying that Peter's mind has been cloned even though it has then I don't know what else to say.

Peter clearly died in Doc Ock's body.

If he was successful in uploading his actual mind into his body (as you believe Slott to have stated) then how could he interact with Doc Ock afterwards?

Peter's mind would no longer be in Doc Ock's body to do such a thing had he actually succeeded in uploading his actual mind back into his body. The result of that fail makes Ghost Peter to be the cloned mind of Peter...it's as simple as that.

In order for me to admit that I'm wrong you have to answer the above question in bold print in a manner that makes sense. If you can't then logically you have to accept what I've been stating to be true.

[Thinker4730]

I completely agree. At least with DV1Band we could joke at his repetition to the point of wondering if he was just trolling and in the end we ended up being right. Thinker's just no fun at all considering it's not even really a debate when the writer's already revealed the answer and he just acts as if he knows more about the story than the writer of the story.

You want Peter's cloned mind to be the real Peter.

Slott wants you to accept that Peter's cloned mind is the real Peter.

So, what else do you expect Slott to say? That Peter's mind has been cloned as a result of his story? He's not going to do that, but let me tell you something...even he knows that Peter's mind has been cloned as a result of his story, but he'll never admit that truth to you.

So, if you want to accept Slott's lie simply because he's the writer then go right ahead, but I refuse to accept the lie because I refuse to be gullible. Only someone who is gullible would accept the crap that Slott is trying to pull here.

The real Peter Parker is still dead...he hasn't returned...the mind within Peter's body now is a clone of the original.

[mlazic]

.......but this is all just fictional made up stuff. How is he lying about stories he made up himself? I can get having different interpretations of writers work....but when the writer himself tells you what he meant kinda hard to say it's a lie. Badly written or poorly explained sure.....but a lie? :\

[Thinker4730]

.......but this is all just fictional made up stuff. How is he lying about stories he made up himself? I can get having different interpretations of writers work....but when the writer himself tells you what he meant kinda hard to say it's a lie. Badly written or poorly explained sure.....but a lie? :\

In regards to the story itself Slott has lied about Peter's mind not being cloned when the story itself reveals that it has.

He supposedly stated that Peter uploaded his actual mind back into his body making Ghost Peter to be the real Peter, but such a thing is impossible when you consider the fact that Peter interacted with Doc Ock after the supposed upload. How could Peter do that if he uploaded himself back into his own body?

Peter still being in Doc Ock's body after the supposed upload when Slott stated that Peter was successful with that upload proves that Slott lied about Peter succeeding with that upload...how could Slott not be lying about that when the story itself reveals that he has?

That makes Ghost Peter to not be the original Peter as Slott has stated, but a cloned mind of Peter instead.

[mlazic]

In regards to the story itself Slott has lied about Peter's mind not being cloned when the story itself reveals that it has.

He supposedly stated that Peter uploaded his actual mind back into his body making Ghost Peter to be the real Peter, but such a thing is impossible when you consider the fact that Peter interacted with Doc Ock after the supposed upload. How could Peter do that if he uploaded himself back into his own body?

Peter still being in Doc Ock's body after the supposed upload when Slott stated that Peter was successful with that upload proves that Slott lied about Peter succeeding with that upload...how could Slott not be lying about that when the story itself reveals that he has?

That makes Ghost Peter to not be the original Peter as Slott has stated, but a cloned mind of Peter instead.

I would chalk that up to confusing or poorly explained writing rather than he's lying about it....I mean he was in charge of his own writing, if he wants it to be the real Pete then it's the real Pete unless the next writer comes along and recons it.

Kinda like how Jean Grey was definitely possessed by the Phoenix......until she was actually in a cocoon at the bottom of a river while the Phoenix made a replica of her body......until AvX where no she was definitely possessed by the Phoenix.

After all in superhero comics it's all nonsensical pseudoscience anyway.

[Thinker4730]

I would chalk that up to confusing or poorly explained writing rather than he's lying about it....I mean he was in charge of his own writing, if he wants it to be the real Pete then it's the real Pete unless the next writer comes along and recons it.

When Slott states the opposite of what his own story reveals then he is lying about what happened in the story.

Slott states that Peter uploaded his actual mind back into his body and that's who Ghost Peter was. If that was indeed the case then Peter wouldn't have been able to interact with Doc Ock after that supposed successful upload because Peter would no longer be in Doc Ock's body to do that.

That proves that Slott lied about Peter being successful about uploading his actual mind back into his body, and if Peter actually failed to complete that upload then Ghost Peter couldn't have been the mind of the real Peter and that makes him to be a clone of Peter's mind instead.

How is Slott not lying about that when he is stating the exact opposite of what his own story reveals?

If Slott wanted Ghost Peter to be the real Peter without question there was a very simple way to do it...no interaction between Peter and Doc Ock after Peter's attempt to swap minds with Doc ock again before he died because Peter would've no longer been inside Doc Ock's body. Had Slott done that very simple thing it would've proven that Peter succeeded in uploading his mind back into his body, but Slott didn't do that. He had Peter interact with Doc Ock and then die and that reveals that Peter didn't succeed in uploading his actual mind back into his body as Slott claims to be the case.

So, without that success what would Ghost Peter logically be?

He would be a clone of Peter's mind since the original mind of Peter died in Doc Ock's body.

[Tendrin]

When Slott states the opposite of what his own story reveals then he is lying about what happened in the story.

This is the problem with your argument. Slott's story backs up his statements. You have to go the extra mile to declare that Slott's story says something else based on your interpretation of the magic/science used to make him out to be a liar.

Frankly, I think it's sort of ridiculous.

[Kurolegacy]

You want Peter's cloned mind to be the real Peter.

Slott wants you to accept that Peter's cloned mind is the real Peter.

So, what else do you expect Slott to say? That Peter's mind has been cloned as a result of his story? He's not going to do that, but let me tell you something...even he knows that Peter's mind has been cloned as a result of his story, but he'll never admit that truth to you.

So, if you want to accept Slott's lie simply because he's the writer then go right ahead, but I refuse to accept the lie because I refuse to be gullible. Only someone who is gullible would accept the crap that Slott is trying to pull here.

The real Peter Parker is still dead...he hasn't returned...the mind within Peter's body now is a clone of the original.

You can repeat that same statement over and over till your fingers bleed, you're not gaining any ground. Aside from a number of people who you can count with one hand missing half its fingers, no one is being remotely swayed by your argument which relies on denying what the very writer whose story this is said is the truth. The story is over, there are no more cards up Slott's sleeves and no more rabbits in the hate. Unlike when there was some ending which couldn't be spoiled, there's no more spinning the truth. You haven't even provided anything that could even count as solid evidence to support your argument instead opting to just repeat the same mantra over and over and the more you argue a shaky point against what the writer himself said while trying to talk down to others who have the word of the writer himself backing them up, the more foolish you look. It doesn't matter if you're a self-proclaimed thinker, you don't know more about a story than the person who wrote it and you never will and to state otherwise is nothing short of sheer arrogance.

[Thinker4730]

This is the problem with your argument. Slott's story backs up his statements. You have to go the extra mile to declare that Slott's story says something else based on your interpretation of the magic/science used to make him out to be a liar.

Frankly, I think it's sort of ridiculous.

How does Slott back up his statements with his story when his story reveals that Peter was still in Doc Ock's body when he supposedly was suppose to be back in his own body when he made that attempt to swap minds with Doc Ock again?

And how am I going an extra mile by pointing that fact out?

Why do you choose to believe Slott even when his own story clearly states the opposite of what he says?

How can Peter be in his own body after his attempt to swap minds with Doc Ock again (as Slott has stated) and yet still be in Doc Ock's body to interact with him after the attempt and then die?

[Thinker4730]

You can repeat that same statement over and over till your fingers bleed, you're not gaining any ground. Aside from a number of people who you can count with one hand missing half its fingers, no one is being remotely swayed by your argument which relies on denying what the very writer whose story this is said is the truth. The story is over, there are no more cards up Slott's sleeves and no more rabbits in the hate. Unlike when there was some ending which couldn't be spoiled, there's no more spinning the truth. You haven't even provided anything that could even count as solid evidence to support your argument instead opting to just repeat the same mantra over and over and the more you argue a shaky point against what the writer himself said while trying to talk down to others who have the word of the writer himself backing them up, the more foolish you look. It doesn't matter if you're a self-proclaimed thinker, you don't know more about a story than the person who wrote it and you never will and to state otherwise is nothing short of sheer arrogance.

All I want to know is how is it possible for Peter to interact with Doc Ock when supposedly he was suppose to be back in his own body after his attempt to swap minds with Doc Ock again?

Such a thing would be impossible if Peter was truly back in his own body like Slott has stated.

Going by what happened in the story Peter never succeeded in getting back into his own body and that means he died in Doc Ock's body, and that would make Ghost Peter to be a cloned mind of the original.

I don't understand how you can reject everything I've stated when the story proves what I'm saying.

If my above bolded question is answered I will admit that I'm wrong and this debate will be over. It's the only thing that supports my entire case and it has yet to be refuted by anyone in here. All you keep stating is that I'm wrong because Slott states otherwise...what kind of crap is that? The story as is reveals that Peter's mind was cloned and the original Peter never returned.

Just because Slott stated that Peter is the real Peter doesn't make it so when his story clearly states otherwise due to the fact that my bolded question can't be logically answered to fit what Slott has stated.

If Peter succeeded in uploading his mind back into his body during his attempt to swap minds with Doc Ock again then he would've no longer been in Doc Ock's body to interact with him and then die. That is my evidence that you claim that I haven't provided. So, how is that not clear that Peter didn't succeed in uploading himself back into his body despite Slott saying that he did?

I will never accept what Slott is saying over what has been revealed in the story simply because he is the writer when my question in bold hasn't been properly answered. I'm not a gullible person to accept what Slott has stated without having that one question answered.

It's just one question that needs to be answered to prove that I'm wrong. But, no one has yet to answer it to refute me.

And do you want to know why? Because there is no way to answer it that makes any sense and it's for that very reason that proves what I've been saying to be true.

[Kurolegacy]

All I want to know is how is it possible for Peter to interact with Doc Ock when supposedly he was suppose to be back in his own body after his attempt to swap minds with Doc Ock again?

Such a thing would be impossible if Peter was truly back in his own body like Slott has stated.

Going by what happened in the story Peter never succeeded in getting back into his own body and that means he died in Doc Ock's body, and that would make Ghost Peter to be a cloned mind of the original.

I don't understand how you can reject everything I've stated when the story proves what I'm saying.

If my above bolded question is answered I will admit that I'm wrong and this debate will be over. It's the only thing that supports my entire case and it has yet to be refuted by anyone in here. All you keep stating is that I'm wrong because Slott states otherwise...what kind of crap is that? The story as is reveals that Peter's mind was cloned and the original Peter never returned.

Just because Slott stated that Peter is the real Peter doesn't make it so when his story clearly states otherwise due to the fact that my bolded question can't be logically answered to fit what Slott has stated.

If Peter succeeded in uploading his mind back into his body during his attempt to swap minds with Doc Ock again then he would've no longer been in Doc Ock's body to interact with him and then die. That is my evidence that you claim that I haven't provided. So, how is that not clear that Peter didn't succeed in uploading himself back into his body despite Slott saying that he did?

I will never accept what Slott is saying over what has been revealed in the story simply because he is the writer when my question in bold hasn't been properly answered. I'm not a gullible person to accept what Slott has stated without having that one question answered.

It's just one question that needs to be answered to prove that I'm wrong. But, no one has yet to answer it to refute me.

And do you want to know why? Because there is no way to answer it that makes any sense and it's for that very reason that proves what I've been saying to be true.

We have flat out told you multiple times that due to us not being shown directly the mind transfer process from start to finish that there are 2 possibilities in answering your question:

1. It is not an instantaneous process and takes time to kick in. This is supported by both the fact that when it was explained how Doc Ock did it, it took time for his mind to take over Peter's body with Peter having been attacked at one point by the golden octobot, went to sleep fine and Doc Ock waking up in control of his body. Ghost Peter remembers the things that happened when he was in control of Doc Ock's body, including the death. Essentially he remembers dying but then waking up in his own body due to having successfully transferred himself via the psychic link.

2. The minds that were controlling each body were essentially mental clones of the original from having their brains rewritten. In this case, the original minds still existed but were suppressed. When the copy of Peter forced Otto's copy to experience all his memories, it awakened Peter's original mind but couldn't put it back in the driver's seat while filling in any blanks for it pertaining to what happened while in Ock's body.

Both statements answer your question and have been repeated throughout the thread but you choose to deny both so I doubt pointing them out will change your mind. But whichever the full methodology, Slott has confirmed that that is indeed the real Peter Parker in his body and no matter how much you choose to reject it, it doesn't change the fact that the writer's own words trump yours.

[Thinker4730]

We have flat out told you multiple times that due to us not being shown directly the mind transfer process from start to finish that there are 2 possibilities in answering your question:

1. It is not an instantaneous process and takes time to kick in. This is supported by both the fact that when it was explained how Doc Ock did it, it took time for his mind to take over Peter's body with Peter having been attacked at one point by the golden octobot, went to sleep fine and Doc Ock waking up in control of his body. Ghost Peter remembers the things that happened when he was in control of Doc Ock's body, including the death. Essentially he remembers dying but then waking up in his own body due to having successfully transferred himself via the psychic link.

Regardless of how long it took for one to have full control of the other's body the fact remains that both had that control before the events of issue #700 and it revealed that Peter failed to successfully transfer himself back into his body via the psychic link by interacting with Doc Ock and then died while still in Doc Ock's body after that failed transfer. If Peter had actually succeeded he would no longer be in Doc Ock's body to have interacted with Doc Ock and then die in Doc Ock's body. So, this doesn't answer my question.

2. The minds that were controlling each body were essentially mental clones of the original from having their brains rewritten. In this case, the original minds still existed but were suppressed. When the copy of Peter forced Otto's copy to experience all his memories, it awakened Peter's original mind but couldn't put it back in the driver's seat while filling in any blanks for it pertaining to what happened while in Ock's body.

If the brains were really rewritten then why is Slott stating that it was an actual mindswap in the introduction pages of the new Amazing Spider-Man title? Slott's own words contradict the above so as a result it doesn't answer my question. It was either a mindswap or brains being rewritten and going by what Slott himself has stated in the introduction page of the new Amazing Spider-Man title it was an actual mindswap.

If you want to hold on to what Slott states then you must do it now and accept that it was an actual mindswap because Slott has stated that it was in the current Amazing Spider-Man title.

Also there's this to consider...Brain patterns have no consciousness so transferring it to someone else doesn't superimpose their consciousness upon that person because there is no consciousness involved, but that's what you are saying happened to Peter and Doc Ock.

Both statements answer your question and have been repeated throughout the thread but you choose to deny both so I doubt pointing them out will change your mind.

They won't change my mind because your #1 doesn't answer my question and your #2 has been contradicted by Slott himself.

But whichever the full methodology, Slott has confirmed that that is indeed the real Peter Parker in his body and no matter how much you choose to reject it, it doesn't change the fact that the writer's own words trump yours.

Slott hasn't confirmed anything. He has contradicted his own story with his statements. If you want to accept that the current Peter is the real Peter simply because Slott says that he is then go ahead, but I never will and it is due to the evidence revealed in the story itself.

[emac1790]

If you want to accept that the current Peter is the real Peter simply because Slott says that he is then go ahead, but I never will and it is due to the evidence revealed in the story itself.

I didn't post the rest of your quote because it is irrelevant. The heart of your argument is that last sentence. In a nut shell, you don't believe what the writer of the story wrote. In fact, your argument is just a long way of saying that you don't believe the writer and your interpretation of the story is the only valid one. Many people here disagree. I'm one of them.

You know what? That's OK. You can have any interpretation of the story you want. Just don't think it's the only valid interpretation of the events of the story and also don't think that people are going to embrace your interpretation.

Lastly, I detect some bias toward Dan Slott from you. I think it's safe to say you don't care for his writing. That's fine, too. I just think your bias has an affect on your interpretation of the story.

[kidhero1000]

You want Peter's cloned mind to be the real Peter.

Slott wants you to accept that Peter's cloned mind is the real Peter.

So, what else do you expect Slott to say? That Peter's mind has been cloned as a result of his story? He's not going to do that, but let me tell you something...even he knows that Peter's mind has been cloned as a result of his story, but he'll never admit that truth to you.

So, if you want to accept Slott's lie simply because he's the writer then go right ahead, but I refuse to accept the lie because I refuse to be gullible. Only someone who is gullible would accept the crap that Slott is trying to pull here.

The real Peter Parker is still dead...he hasn't returned...the mind within Peter's body now is a clone of the original.

They're simply paper people. You just gotta get over it and move on

[Thinker4730]

I didn't post the rest of your quote because it is irrelevant. The heart of your argument is that last sentence. In a nut shell, you don't believe what the writer of the story wrote. In fact, your argument is just a long way of saying that you don't believe the writer and your interpretation of the story is the only valid one. Many people here disagree. I'm one of them.

You know what? That's OK. You can have any interpretation of the story you want. Just don't think it's the only valid interpretation of the events of the story and also don't think that people are going to embrace your interpretation.

Lastly, I detect some bias toward Dan Slott from you. I think it's safe to say you don't care for his writing. That's fine, too. I just think your bias has an affect on your interpretation of the story.

I'm only going by the details revealed in the story itself that people seem to be choosing to ignore because they want Peter to be the real Peter and they'll accept any means that Slott gives them for it to be the real Peter. I want Peter to be the real Peter as well, but I can't accept that the current Peter is the real Peter due to what the story has revealed. Whether I have a have bias against Dan Slott or not is irrevelant because I base my interpretation of stories based on the facts revealed in it.

Peter was suppose to have died in issue #700 and the only way to pull that off was for there to be an actual mindswap. Peter was actually trying to get his body back due to it being a mindswap because that's what he believed happened. If we knew anything else outside of it being an actual mindswap then the whole concept of believing that Peter died goes flying out the window.

Did you believe that Peter died in issue #700?

Because a lot of people did and that wouldn't have been the case if it was revealed that brains were just being rewritten and an actual mindswap didn't happen before issue #700. It was revealed quite clear that Peter died in Doc Ock's body to everyone who read the story.

Until Ghost Peter showed up no one thought that he was still alive because it was revealed that he died in Doc Ock's body. That being the case you could only accept what Doc Ock said because it was the only logical conclusion and nothing outside of that has been revealed and that would make Ghost Peter to be the cloned mind of the original Peter.

Believing that Peter died in Doc Ock's body due to a mindswap and being replaced by Doc Ock was the whole point behind Superior Spider-Man. And Slott pulled off the death of Peter quite well. What he didn't pull off well was the way for Peter to return without making him to be a cloned mind of the original.

Brain patterns have no consciousness so transferring it to someone else doesn't superimpose their consciousness upon that person because there is no consciousness involved, but that's what people are saying happened to Peter and Doc Ock. In order for a consciousness to exist in another body there would have to be a mindswap or a transfer of that consciousness to that other body. It's the only way that it can happen that makes any sense...and a story has to make some degree of sense so it can be enjoyed.

So, that being said you can only come to the following conclusions for the sake of the story...

1) An actual mindswap occurred between Peter and Doc Ock. (Which has also been verified to have happened in the the introduction pages of recent issues of the new Amazing Spider-Man title.)

2) That Peter died in Doc Ock's body in issue #700 upon failing to upload himself back into his body. (Proof of such...interacting with Doc Ock after the failed attempt proving that he was still in Doc Ock's body to do that in the first place.)

3) That Ghost Peter was exactly what Doc Ock stated that he was. Peter's memories forming a new Peter consciousness making it a cloned mind of the original. (Now, it's likely possible that what Peter did in his attempt to upload himself back into his body triggered such a thing, but it doesn't change the fact that Peter still died in Doc Ock's body and that would make Ghost Peter to not be the original Peter.)

Regardless of what Slott says (who has contradicted himself in regards to this subject due to statements made in current introduction pages of the new Amazing spider-Man title) the outcome of the story based on the facts within it point more to the logical conclusion that Ghost Peter is revealed to be a cloned mind of Peter and not the real Peter.