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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by G-Man27 View Post
    Superman would let Lois die to save the world? No, the Superman I know would always find a way. One of the things that makes Superman great is the refusal to compromise. So regardless of being "in awe" of Kara, Superman not being able to sacrifice Lois is not a dealbreaker.
    This is a good point.

    I don't know a lot about Superman, but I don't think the idea of letting someone die to save the world fits him a lot.

    He seems like the guy who would look for a third option.

  2. #47
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Konja7 View Post
    This is a good point.

    I don't know a lot about Superman, but I don't think the idea of letting someone die to save the world fits him a lot.

    He seems like the guy who would look for a third option.
    He does it by basically being superman. His senses work further than he could go. When he saves someone, he is essentially not saving another person who might be in trouble at the same time, ergo letting them die. This thing that clark would always find a better way. That's all fine and dandy. But, that doesn’t mean he doesn't have to face consequences or hard choices. nor does it mean he can do everything or save everyone.

  3. #48
    Death becomes you Osiris-Rex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I'm sure they'd treat Clark differently in his own show than they did as a guest star in Supergirl's. And I don't watch the CW shows and have only seen one or two small clips of their Superman so I don't really have a bone with any particulars, like him losing a fight to Kara (apparently).

    But the CW is the last network I want handling the character. They lack the budget to do Clark justice, for one. For another, the CW relies on cheap melodrama and relationship bullsh*t and those are two things that do not well serve Superman or his supporting cast. That's just the CW's target demo and I don't begrudge them that, but the last thing the character needs is more "Oh, I'm so torn between my two lives! Do I pick Lois and happiness or Superman and loneliness?" crap. You really want to make sure no one ever sees what makes Superman so great? Put him in cheap soap operas where he doesn't get to act like a fully functioning and reasonable adult, much less the gods damn Superman.
    ABC did four seasons of Lois & Clark and it was very popular until the fake wedding.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    From what little I've seen.....not good enough. It's not just Clark, it's his rogues, the settings, etc. Like I said, I don't watch the CW shows anymore. I dropped them with Flash season 3 (or somewhere around there) so maybe it's better now, but from what I've seen? While Flash did manage to make the likes of Grodd and King Shark look decent, we also only got them for a couple shots per season. A budget like that isn't going to be able to pull off Mongul or Parasite (or any number of villains) and really be able to sell it. Same goes for the Fortress and any alien worlds Clark may visit.
    I felt Supergirl's version of Parasite looked great. At least as good as King Shark. Maybe even as good as Doomsday in Batman v Superman. I never even expected that Rudy Jones would transform into a big purple monster. The extendable jaw like the xenomorphs had in Aliens was a nice touch. I just assumed he would stay in human form but with superpowers. And what's wrong with the Fortress of Solitude? It looks as grand as any movie version. I think the ice statues of Jor-El and Lara look great. And it was fun to see the Jor-El statue come to life and fight Supergirl.

    Quote Originally Posted by stargazer01 View Post
    He didn't just say he was very proud of her. That I have no problem with, but he said he could never be as brave and strong as she is. That's not Superman to me. He always does what's necessary to save others even at a personal cost.
    Give him a break. His cousin felt terrible about having to send her lover away. For all she knew, she killed him. He might not have even really meant what he said to Kara because he was never in a situation
    like that, he was just trying to make it seem like she did the right thing. If you don't think that is Superman, you really don't know Superman that well.

  4. #49
    Mighty Member Hybrid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9th. View Post
    I don't get it, so what was the point of DC Universe if the're going to go through with putting more shows on CW and HBO Max.
    DC Universe was a bit of a jump the gun thing. Not sure if they knew HBO Max was going to be a thing when they were developing it. I wouldn't be surprised if it just becomes a comics-only service later.

  5. #50
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Their take on the Fortress was pretty solid in my opinion. I also liked their CG take on Parasite.
    I didnt know they did Parasite. Interesting, I'll have to see if I can find a clip or something.

    To be honest I don't expect even that Chuck Austen level of soap opera to come out of a CW Superman show. I mean, maybe they would draw out some cheesy, contrived, drama but I think everyone has different levels of toleration for that kind of stuff...like, I think it's a fine line between what's "drama" and what's a "soap opera."
    Certainly, YMMV and all that.

    I mean, they've handled Barry and Iris pretty well post-marriage (I mean, people hate Iris, but that has nothing to do with how she and Barry act towards each other).
    Oh they finally got married, huh? Last time I watched the show they were still going back and forth on the whole "I can't be with you because reasons" crap.

    Quote Originally Posted by Osiris-Rex View Post
    ABC did four seasons of Lois & Clark and it was very popular until the fake wedding.
    And thirty years ago I never missed an episode. And the show was popular, no argument there. But that's not the Superman I want to watch. I have little interest in the "Clark and his drama come first" mentality (when one "side" takes preference you're doing Superman wrong). But like I said, that's just me. If CW spins Clark into his own show, good for them. I wish them luck. More Superman is never a bad thing, because the more products out there the higher the odds of me getting something I want next.
    Last edited by Ascended; 10-26-2019 at 10:01 AM.
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  6. #51
    Incredible Member Ra-El's Avatar
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    A R-rated True Detective- ish Question show? Yes please.
    And bring Krypton back too, that show is the best Superman related thing in a long time. A non CW Superman would be MT preference.
    Oh and give Swamp Thing a second chance. I may even sign up if they do it.
    Last edited by Ra-El; 10-26-2019 at 08:20 AM.

  7. #52
    Astonishing Member stargazer01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osiris-Rex View Post
    ABC did four seasons of Lois & Clark and it was very popular until the fake wedding.



    I felt Supergirl's version of Parasite looked great. At least as good as King Shark. Maybe even as good as Doomsday in Batman v Superman. I never even expected that Rudy Jones would transform into a big purple monster. The extendable jaw like the xenomorphs had in Aliens was a nice touch. I just assumed he would stay in human form but with superpowers. And what's wrong with the Fortress of Solitude? It looks as grand as any movie version. I think the ice statues of Jor-El and Lara look great. And it was fun to see the Jor-El statue come to life and fight Supergirl.



    Give him a break. His cousin felt terrible about having to send her lover away. For all she knew, she killed him. He might not have even really meant what he said to Kara because he was never in a situation
    like that, he was just trying to make it seem like she did the right thing. If you don't think that is Superman, you really don't know Superman that well.
    I'm sure you know better... I may not be an expert on Superman, but I love and respect him. I don't think the CW respect him, and I'm hardly alone thinking that.


  8. #53
    Incredible Member OpaqueGiraffe17's Avatar
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    Eh, while I agree that Hoechlin’s Superman is a bit too self-deprecating for my tastes, but I think he has way more going for him than a follow up with Cavill would face.
    For starters I agree with Rex on the Mon-El thing. There is a HUGE difference between a guy thinking or saying “I don’t know if I’d have the stones to sacrifice a loved one for the greater good” and actually making the selfish choice when literally put in that kind of insane situation. Big difference. Those Knightmare future crap scenes in the Snyder movies straight up imply Cavill Superman is Injustice Clark waiting to happen.
    Also I don’t care much about those petty who beats who fanboy debates. But Hoechlin got beat up by another adult fully trained kryptonian. While Cavill got beat up by Batman in an iron man suit. Neither ticks me off. But if one of those is embarrassing, then it’s probably the latter.
    As for performances Hoechlin seems to bring some actual charm to the role while I thought Cavil was kinda wooden.
    Also one has Jon Cryer’s amazing Lex as an archenemy, the other has Eisenburg’s cringefest.
    Really all that I think Cavill has going for him is how perfect he looks in the suit.
    look all the Arrowverse shows are basically all mediocre guilty pleasures with the occasional gem. So we wouldn’t get the definitive end all be all Superman adaptations fans are thirsty for. Believe me I’d give a kidney for a Superman adaptation with HBO quality. But the CW has impressed me with what they’ve been able to accomplish. I’d be cautiously optimistic to see what they’d do with the big guy.

  9. #54
    Extraordinary Member Holt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hybrid View Post
    DC Universe was a bit of a jump the gun thing. Not sure if they knew HBO Max was going to be a thing when they were developing it. I wouldn't be surprised if it just becomes a comics-only service later.
    There was also a report from one of the very reputable outlets (I think Variety or Hollywood Reporter) that said the new owners from AT&T were confused about the existence of a separate DC Universe app since they felt putting new DC content on HBO MAX made more sense.

  10. #55
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OpaqueGiraffe17 View Post
    Eh, while I agree that Hoechlin’s Superman is a bit too self-deprecating for my tastes, but I think he has way more going for him than a follow up with Cavill would face.
    For starters I agree with Rex on the Mon-El thing. There is a HUGE difference between a guy thinking or saying “I don’t know if I’d have the stones to sacrifice a loved one for the greater good” and actually making the selfish choice when literally put in that kind of insane situation. Big difference. Those Knightmare future crap scenes in the Snyder movies straight up imply Cavill Superman is Injustice Clark waiting to happen.
    Also I don’t care much about those petty who beats who fanboy debates. But Hoechlin got beat up by another adult fully trained kryptonian. While Cavill got beat up by Batman in an iron man suit. Neither ticks me off. But if one of those is embarrassing, then it’s probably the latter.
    As for performances Hoechlin seems to bring some actual charm to the role while I thought Cavil was kinda wooden.
    Also one has Jon Cryer’s amazing Lex as an archenemy, the other has Eisenburg’s cringefest.
    Really all that I think Cavill has going for him is how perfect he looks in the suit.
    look all the Arrowverse shows are basically all mediocre guilty pleasures with the occasional gem. So we wouldn’t get the definitive end all be all Superman adaptations fans are thirsty for. Believe me I’d give a kidney for a Superman adaptation with HBO quality. But the CW has impressed me with what they’ve been able to accomplish. I’d be cautiously optimistic to see what they’d do with the big guy.
    You have nothing to base your speculations on. Injustice isn't that superman's end game, but a possible future. Guess what? It's a possible future in dc hypertime as well. If it was, snyder wouldn't have had lois say "hope never dies" in his jl parts that he clearly had hand prints on. What are you on about? Snyder's superman had to sacrifice his pa and let him go so that the world doesn't turn upside down.So, you calling snyder's superman selfish is a joke of epic proportions. Hoechlin’s bring nothing to the character,that is remotely interesting .With all due respect. I firmly believe he was miscast . I would have preferred routh. Henry is very charming dude. Hoechlin can't touch any of the previous actors who took the role.

  11. #56
    Incredible Member OpaqueGiraffe17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    You have nothing to base your speculations on. Injustice isn't that superman's end game, but a possible future. Guess what? It's a possible future in dc hypertime as well. If it was, snyder wouldn't have had lois say "hope never dies" in his jl parts that he clearly had hand prints on. What are you on about? Snyder's superman had to sacrifice his pa and let him go so that the world doesn't turn upside down.So, you calling snyder's superman selfish is a joke of epic proportions. Hoechlin’s bring nothing to the character,that is remotely interesting .With all due respect. I firmly believe he was miscast . I would have preferred routh. Henry is very charming dude. Hoechlin can't touch any of the previous actors who took the role.
    Yeah Clark letting an old man get sucked into a tornado in order to protect his secret identity was truly selfless. Bro, what are YOU on about?
    Anyway I couldn’t disagree more about Cavill. I’ve seen him in Tutors, the DCEU and Mission impossible. The guy had never impressed me in the slightest. All of Man of Steel he was outshined by Shannon and Crow. Then he spent all of BvS looking constipated. And all of Justice League with his face CGI’d on. So we’ll have to agree to disagree.
    As for the injustice scenes, I don’t pretend to understand what the fuck hypertime is, no matter how many times it shows up in the comics. But we saw in the movie that Cavill Superman has the potential to become injustice Superman. That is what he is capable of becoming. And I’m not worked up about that. But it does paint a less flattering portrayal of that incarnation than anything Arrowverse did with the character.
    Last edited by OpaqueGiraffe17; 10-26-2019 at 01:37 PM.

  12. #57
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stargazer01 View Post
    It's much more than that. In the Season 2 finale Clark told Kara he could never be as brave and selfless as she was. He could never sacrifice Lois like Kara sacrificed Mon-El to save the world. He was basically in awe of her... Sorry but my Superman does what it takes no matter his personal loss. He is the greatest hero.

    This Superman.. sounds pathetic to me. He's too weak. Plus the writers always make him tell her just how much better and amazing she is than him.. I'm so sick of it! I don't respect this Superman version, and I have less than zero interest in a show about him. I wish I could, but I don't. The CW just don't get it, they are more busy with their feminists agendas than doing the characters right.

    I think the CW Superman is the worst depiction of Superman I've ever seen. In every way too! The writing is bad, the production value is cheaper than usual, the actor doesnt fit or make it work at all- it's just so weak. The CW isn't campy enough. If they're going to make these back lot shows with real rough CGI...just make them campy and fun!

    Superman Returns was a total bore, but I'd rather watch that in all honesty.

    WB should be really careful with letting the CW use Batman and Superman...those characters have weight and gravitas to them and to just start producing really cheap material would dilute the names.
    Last edited by Flash Gordon; 10-26-2019 at 01:32 PM.

  13. #58
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OpaqueGiraffe17 View Post
    Yeah Clark letting an old man get sucked into a tornado in order to protect his secret identity was truly selfless. Bro, what are YOU on about?
    Anyway I couldn’t disagree more about Cavill. I’ve seen him in Tutors, the DCEU and Mission impossible. The guy had never impressed me in the slightest. All of Man of Steel he was outshined by Shannon and Crow. Then he spent all of BvS looking constipated. And all of Justice League with his face CGI’d on. So we’ll have to agree to disagree.
    As for the injustice scenes, I don’t pretend to understand what the fuck hypertime is, no matter how many times it shows up in the comics. But we saw in the movie that Cavill Superman has the potential to become injustice Superman. That is what he is capable of becoming. And I’m not worked up about that. But it does paint a less flattering portrayal of that incarnation than anything Arrowverse did with the character.
    Yes, it is selfless. The selfish thing would be going out their and blowing his cover to save his pa.Because secret identity means squat to clark. It meant everything to pa. Pa means more to clark than stupid identity . Clark jumping in would have not only spat on pa sacrifice.but,also cause the chaos that will ensue after the revelation. We are still a species that fights over gods.Imagine a religious fundamentalist would do if he comes to know someone like clark exists. There will be lives lost guaranteed. More than the one life he would save. Pa understood that. Clark let it go. It is as selfless. Gohan standing there selfless as goku took cell before he self destructed.
    Man from uncle had him be pretty charming. Mission impossible had him as an antagonist. What do you expect? A speech on greatness of hope. Man of steel had clark be charming in parts. You could argue that those scenes weren't enough. I would be ok and agree. Saying it doesn't exist is disingenuous.No matter how you slice Hoechlin doesn't strike me as the superman. He doesn't have the build or the personality. I mean it respectful way. I would prefer wellings, hoechlin or cavill superman over Hoechlin’s.
    Hypertime basically means that the main line superman or "classic" superman or whatever version of superman is capable of becoming injustice superman given the right ingredients.keyword "capable" as in "possibility". It doesn't mean that is the main line superman or Snyder's superman. Nor does it mean that Snyder's superman will act the way injustice superman did. It is a vision to warn. It's like saying just because justice lord superman exists the mainline superman sucks or saying batman who kaughs exist so batman sucks.

  14. #59
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Gordon View Post
    I think the CW Superman is the worst depiction of Superman I've ever seen. In every way too! The writing is bad, the production value is cheaper than usual, the actor doesnt fit or make it work at all- it's just so weak. The CW isn't campy enough. If they're going to make these back lot shows with real rough CGI...just make them campy and fun!

    Superman Returns was a total bore, but I'd rather watch that in all honesty.

    WB should be really careful with letting the CW use Batman and Superman...those characters have weight and gravitas to them and to just start producing really cheap material would dilute the names.
    Bingo! This is where i am at. Routh can be an awesome superman. He just needs the script. Hopefully, this cw crossover thing strikes gold for routh's superman.

  15. #60
    Incredible Member OpaqueGiraffe17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Yes, it is selfless. The selfish thing would be going out their and blowing his cover to save his pa.Because secret identity means squat to clark. It meant everything to pa. Pa means more to clark than stupid identity . Clark jumping in would have not only spat on pa sacrifice.but,also cause the chaos that will ensue after the revelation. We are still a species that fights over gods.Imagine a religious fundamentalist would do if he comes to know someone like clark exists. There will be lives lost guaranteed. More than the one life he would save. Pa understood that. Clark let it go. It is as selfless. Gohan standing there selfless as goku took cell before he self destructed.
    Man from uncle had him be pretty charming. Mission impossible had him as an antagonist. What do you expect? A speech on greatness of hope. Man of steel had clark be charming in parts. You could argue that those scenes weren't enough. I would be ok and agree. Saying it doesn't exist is disingenuous.No matter how you slice Hoechlin doesn't strike me as the superman. He doesn't have the build or the personality. I mean it respectful way. I would prefer wellings, hoechlin or cavill superman over Hoechlin’s.
    Hypertime basically means that the main line superman or "classic" superman or whatever version of superman is capable of becoming injustice superman given the right ingredients.keyword "capable" as in "possibility". It doesn't mean that is the main line superman or Snyder's superman. Nor does it mean that Snyder's superman will act the way injustice superman did. It is a vision to warn. It's like saying just because justice lord superman exists the mainline superman sucks or saying batman who kaughs exist so batman sucks.
    Honestly that’s completely ridiculous to me. Using super speed once wouldn’t plunge the world to chaos. Hell the Flash did it in that universe. Worst case scenerio if he didn’t want to become a public hero, he’d have to lay low for a while and it would eventually be dismissed as a hoax. To add to the absurdity of that movies backwards ethical logic, Clark then proceeded to use his powers publicly repeatedly after that until a journalist started to notice. So yeah he was just protecting his own lifestyle when he let his dad die. The selfless thing would be *gasp* get the old man away from the freaking tornado. Even if that means giving up “Clark Kent.” Letting other people sacrifice their well being for your secrets is selfish and honestly pathetic. Any other Superman would have saved Jonathan. I also don’t mean any disrespect, I respect your opinion, but there is a reason why audiences were indifferent when Doomsday killed him.
    Last edited by OpaqueGiraffe17; 10-26-2019 at 02:43 PM.

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