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  1. #1
    Astonishing Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    Default The Kylo Ren #2 preview sort of solves a bit of a TLJ mystery(possible spoilers)

    https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/10...knights-of-ren

    Curious thing here, that Ben and Luke fought the knights before he went down the dark path.


    ....also, this seems to partially explain what happened to at least some of Luke's other students who Luke said were missing-they presumed he was dead and took off after Kylo left and the Knights. I'm guessing their journey to "avenge" Luke didn't go to well.
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  2. #2
    Mighty Member Anthony W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    https://www.ign.com/articles/2019/10...knights-of-ren

    Curious thing here, that Ben and Luke fought the knights before he went down the dark path.


    ....also, this seems to partially explain what happened to at least some of Luke's other students who Luke said were missing-they presumed he was dead and took off after Kylo left and the Knights. I'm guessing their journey to "avenge" Luke didn't go to well.
    Wow, they really are just making it up as they go along.
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  3. #3
    Ultimate Member Gray Lensman's Avatar
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    The original trilogy was making things up as they went along too. There were just fewer people plugged in to any mistakes and less continuity to contradict back then.
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  4. #4
    Mighty Member Anthony W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Lensman View Post
    The original trilogy was making things up as they went along too. There were just fewer people plugged in to any mistakes and less continuity to contradict back then.
    I can't believe people are using this line of reasoning. Yes, the first Star Wars movie was very much a crapshoot that Fox had no faith in so they let Lucas keep the merchandising rights. It was very much lightning in a bottle.

    That is not the Star Wars Disney paid for.

    Disney paid four billion dollars for a juggernaut....with no plan in place.
    Last edited by Anthony W; 10-27-2019 at 08:40 PM.
    "The Marvel EIC Chair has a certain curse that goes along with it: it tends to drive people insane, and ultimately, out of the business altogether. It is the notorious last stop for many staffers, as once you've sat in The Big Chair, your pariah status is usually locked in." Christopher Priest

  5. #5
    Astonishing Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    EMPIRE and ROTJ did go through some major changes in development. Leigh Brackett's script for instance still had Luke's father and Vader being seperate characters, and didn't end with as much of a cliffhanger as the final film did; Han wasn't frozen for example.


    ROTJ also almost went in a completely different direction, one that would set up George's 7-9. But due perhaps to Lucas's marital troubles he decided to wrap it up with ROTJ-he wasn't even sure he would do the prequels until Terminator 2 and Jurassic Park rolled around, seeing what he could do with CG.


    The prequels's story was pretty much already set as a general outline by what we knew from the OT.

    The sequels haven't been quite as planned as say, the MCU, but even those films can change a great deal. Remember when INHUMANS was planned to be a movie but ended up being a pretty poor TV show? Or Jon Favreau was going to direct the Avengers? Also ENDGAME changed many times as we've learned.


    I think there was a bit more of a plan for Episode 9 that would've heavily featured Leia but Carrie's death caused problems with the script, possibly one of the factors that led to Tremorrow being released.
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  6. #6
    Wrath of a God Xero Kaiser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    The sequels haven't been quite as planned as say, the MCU,
    LOL

    That's an understatement if I've ever seen one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony W View Post
    Disney paid four billion dollars for a juggernaut....with no plan in place.

    Last edited by Xero Kaiser; 10-28-2019 at 10:20 AM.

  7. #7
    iMan 42s
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    An outline is required, 3 full scripts are not.
    An actor died between films, leaks happen, things are not as received as well as the others, the "fans" revolt, and you have to account for material coming out at the same time.

    You have to be extremely flexible for this sort of long-term planning because anything and everything can go wrong in-between releases of a trilogy. They had an outline, we know that. Planning business decisions what is essentially a decade in advance is completely foolish and they are smart not to have done so.
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  8. #8
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    I just want to see actual Knights of Ren on screen, otherwise the title is a joke. I mean that'd fit with Kylos "I wanna be a badass but I'm a whiny fanboy" schtick that he gave himself a cool name but still.

  9. #9
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Comics have been supplementing and adding to beats of the films since the OT. I'm not saying these films have had a solid plan in place but using comic additions to to bolster that complain holds no weight. Even if they had the best general outline in the world and executed it with minimal unforseen issues, we'd still get stuff like this. This is an indicator of absolutely nothing other than their continuing the common theme of supplemental material in other media.
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  10. #10
    Wrath of a God Xero Kaiser's Avatar
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    There's expanding on the story, and then there's doing practically all of your world building in the comics.

    I think the problem a lot of people have is that the sequel trilogy doesn't bother explaining or setting up anything. Shit just happens and the comics have to plug in big, obvious gaps in the story.

  11. #11
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    If we're talking world building, fact of the matter is Legends continuity did most of it in the OT-PT era as well. The movies built what it needed to build for the particular plots and that it. Legends greatly built things up further. So as of now, in this particular case with one movie yet to go, its not an indictment of anything. There's more time, less restrictions, its just easier to accomplish fleshing out. Really the only thing that's on the films to explain is Snoke to some degree, because it hasn't in any facet whatsoever yet, and the the Knights of Ren. That might come by way of Palpatine, maybe. And if it does do that then this ends up no big deal and completely par for course. If it doesn't then I'd agree that its two particular examples of relying on outside materials to do what you failed to do in the saga itself.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

    "Now why don't we step up here and everybody get stepped up, and let's get some stepped up personal space up in this place." - Phillip Jacobs

  12. #12
    Wrath of a God Xero Kaiser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    Really the only thing that's on the films to explain is Snoke to some degree, because it hasn't in any facet whatsoever yet, and the the Knights of Ren.
    Snoke, The Knights of Ren, how the First Order magically has more resources than the rest of the galaxy combined (even after it's base of operations was destroyed...), why there's only a small resistance instead of an actual Republic army, why Leia's in exile, why the rest of the Republic doesn't seem to mind that the First Order just blew up their capital...

    I don't know. This stuff stood out to me like a sore thumb when I was watching the movies and I usually don't get too hung up on this kind of thing. But it's like the premise itself just doesn't make sense. They want these big moments or callbacks to the OT but aren't all that concerned about how they happen, or if it even makes sense for it to happen in the first place (like an entire galactic Republic still being portrayed as the scrappy underdog). I get that comics/books/video games/etc have more time to flesh things out but now they feel necessary. Maybe that was the point of Disney's, "everything is canon" approach to Star Wars now.

    We'll see if TRoS bothers explaining the existence of the Sith Troopers and the construction of yet another super-fleet that somehow escaped everyone's notice until now, but I doubt it.
    Last edited by Xero Kaiser; 10-31-2019 at 01:07 PM.

  13. #13
    Astonishing Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    I think the reason the Republic has a small army was generally explained that they didn't want to repeat the previous Republic's mistakes; basically them getting a massive military is part of what led to the Empire. So they have a pretty small fleet.

    The remnants of the Empire that created the First Order of course doesn't really the same scruples, and basically rebuilt in secret. And Leia sort of realized that and formed the Resistance, with some backchannels from Republic sympathizers, or old Alliance buddies.

    Leia's not really in exile, she just kind of did her own thing. She did get outed as being Vader's daughter though and that kind of messed up her political career, so as she said "She went back to what she was good at".


    Then again, as you noted a lot of this is kind of mainly in the comics/novels/games. Abrams kind of did a similar thing with his Star Trek movie; a lot of the backstory was in a comic series called Countdown.


    As for the new fleet, I'm not sure if it's a newly constructed fleet, as they're OT era Star Destroyers, and not even the more advanced ones from ESB and ROTJ but the ANH model that Disney seems quite fond of (It also showed up in Rogue One & Solo). The old Zahn trilogy also had a lost fleet of battleships; I'm kind of curious if this is something similar.
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