X-MEN GIANT SIZE JEAN GREY & EMMA FROST by Jonathan Hickman & Russell Dauterman

[Kisinith]

Again, please, believe me if I tell you that I agree. HOX/POX wan't about anyone's fav. It was a greater story for mutants. But again, do you think Morrison's Jean and Taylor's Jean, was the Jean we saw in HOX/POX ?

Jean wan't afraid of dying in that space shuttle in the 70's, but she cried like a little girl and didn't even tried to fight back in 2019 ?

She went from a strong woman fighting Nova - with a vision of a better world for mutants - in X-Men Red, to Marvel Girl again.... So my point wan't about giving a fan favorite the biggest spotlight or his/her moment to shine. My point was to tell that, as a Jean fan, I can't help but noticing that their was a regression of the character, and not a small one, in HOX/POX so far.

I just don't think its fair to make any assessment of her yet, good or bad. I also don't agree that she was a damsel in distress. 2 things about that issue stand out, especially in hindsight. 1st everyone on it needed to die because of the reveal of the 5 and mutant resurrection. Second as far as Jean herself is concerned it was made clear that she had to maintain contact with Xavier back on Earth millions of miles away and that was her most important job. Its also implied in the art that she was injured in the initial explosion. Lastly she was maintaining psychic contact with her family (and Earth) as they were all dying, that's got to take a toll. So i'm not willing to immediately go to yelling about regression.

If it continues I'll concede it as a fair argument but 1 fight does not a trend make especially one that had as many extenuating circumstances as that did.

A little more context, 1 fight in a series she wasn't a star of, that was about setting the stage more than anything else.

[PrezValentine]

While keeping her as one of two Omega level telepaths.

Meanwhile, 34 other X-Men lost their Omega status completely.

Still the best concept of power delimitation applied in I don't know how many years. The X-Men franchise was hit with power creep worse than competitive Pokemon.

[MechaJeanix]

I don't think its fair to make any assessment of her yet. I also don't agree that she was a damsel in distress. 2 things about that issue stand out, especially in hindsight. 1st everyone on it needed to die because of the reveal of the 5 and mutant resurrection. Second as far as Jean herself is concerned it was made clear that she had to maintain contact with Xavier back on Earth millions of miles away and that was her most important job. Its also implied in the art that she was injured in the initial explosion. Lastly she was maintaining psychic contact with her family (and Earth) as they were all dying, that's got to take a toll. So i'm not willing to immediately go to yelling about regression.

If it continues I'll concede it as a fair argument but 1 fight does not a trend make especially one that had as many extenuating circumstances as that did.

I think that is fair and I agree that Jean was injured and had an important role in the mission. I think it was the artists expression on Jean's face on that one specific page that made Jean look like she was freaking out or starting to panic. It made her seem off. I've said it before but Husk, Angel, and Mystique all fared worse than Jean did. At least Jean did something and was useful.

[spirit2011]

While keeping her as one of two Omega level telepaths.

Meanwhile, 34 other X-Men lost their Omega status completely.

She was on the iossue that gave the meaning of Omega, she and Iceman. That wpuld be too obvious

I think that is fair and I agree that Jean was injured and had an important role in the mission. I think it was the artists expression on Jean's face on that one specific page that made Jean look like she was freaking out or starting to panic. It made her seem off. I've said it before but Husk, Angel, and Mystique all fared worse than Jean did. At least Jean did something and was useful.

They are far weaker than Jean. not a good comparation

[Kisinith]

I think that is fair and I agree that Jean was injured and had an important role in the mission. I think it was the artists expression on Jean's face on that one specific page that made Jean look like she was freaking out or starting to panic. It made her seem off. I've said it before but Husk, Angel, and Mystique all fared worse than Jean did. At least Jean did something and was useful.

This, it may well end up that Hickman's Jean is a regression. If it does then he'll deserve criticism for it. Its just that, for now, we haven't really been given enough to make that determination yet.

[franckd]

If you go by the posts of spirit and the poster I'm not authorized to mention, due to forum rules, you'll think Jean became Cyclops'sex slave or something. No matter what Hickman does, it will never be enough for a part of her fans, not restricted to these two. So, what's left is to take the whole situation humorously.

First, thank you for saying that only a part of Jean fans will never be happy with Hickman's writing. So far I'm thrilled and excited by what Hickman's offered so far, as a whole. I have never been that excited by the books since Morrison (and I deeply enjoyed his run)

Hickman is bringing back a purpose, and a direction for the books. So I can't say that I will never be happy with his take on Jean (only the future will tell obviously) but I can't help noticing that so far, the character seems to be reverted. It doesn't make me mad. I'm not even frustrated : Jean is one of my fav and she was dead for more than a decade. So I can deal with Jean's regression (so far) but as - I hope to be - an honest person, I can't deny it.

[Kisinith]

Still the best concept of power delimitation applied in I don't know how many years. The X-Men franchise was hit with power creep worse than competitive Pokemon.

God yes, it may not be my most popular opinion but I personally would have preferred removing the Omega classification from every regularly starring mutant. Leave it for the reality warpers and plot macguffins. A handful of writers can handle it, for most its at best an invitation to Worf-effect the character.

[Tank]

I was just happy she retained the omega status because honestly I wasn't sure if she was going to due to a comment JDW had said in a previous X-men Monday (when a fan asked if Rictor was omega level). They are worried about power creep and want to keep the mutants from all becoming world destroying. I completely respect that.

I'd prob have preferred Jean be an omega tk, but at the end of the day it doesn't matter. I am glad both Jean and Quire retained that status. Emma was called Omega by Fraction and I think that still could been correct because Xavier was depowered, Jean was dead, Quire for a while was out of commission so Emma prob was the top telepath for a while and was at the upper limit of that power compared to the other active telepaths at the time.

Too many writers tossed the term omega around on whoever they are propping up, but Emma and Psylocke are not omegas. It’s ridiculous. At least Hickman had the sense to clean up and take out the trash so to speak.

[AbnormallyNormal]

I am curious if they will be portrayed as frenemies/rivals but who sort of are forced to come together

Or will this be a true "bury the hatchet" type thing and we all pretend there is no animosity at all anymore (which to me is implausible)

[franckd]

I am curious if they will be portrayed as frenemies/rivals but who sort of are forced to come together

Or will this be a true "bury the hatchet" type thing and we all pretend there is no animosity at all anymore (which to me is implausible)

I really excited about this duo. As I really loved Emma during GenX, Morrison's and Whedon's run. For me, Emma was at her top during Morrison's run. And her relation with Jean was one of the many highlights of the book.

[spirit2011]

Too many writers tossed the term omega around on whoever they are propping up, but Emma and Psylocke are not omegas. It’s ridiculous. At least Hickman had the sense to clean up and take out the trash so to speak.

Writers started describing almost every mutant as omega. it just lost the meaning

[franckd]

I just don't think its fair to make any assessment of her yet, good or bad. I also don't agree that she was a damsel in distress. 2 things about that issue stand out, especially in hindsight. 1st everyone on it needed to die because of the reveal of the 5 and mutant resurrection. Second as far as Jean herself is concerned it was made clear that she had to maintain contact with Xavier back on Earth millions of miles away and that was her most important job. Its also implied in the art that she was injured in the initial explosion. Lastly she was maintaining psychic contact with her family (and Earth) as they were all dying, that's got to take a toll. So i'm not willing to immediately go to yelling about regression.

If it continues I'll concede it as a fair argument but 1 fight does not a trend make especially one that had as many extenuating circumstances as that did.

A little more context, 1 fight in a series she wasn't a star of, that was about setting the stage more than anything else.

I don't mind at all that Jean died during HOX. Many other X-Men died. My problem was, and still is, that she didn't even tried to fight back.
But you are right about the fact that she had to maintain that link with earth. And I agree it was lot to give and take.

Maybe MechaJeanix is totally right : the artist didn't help making her look like she was kind of hysterical.

[Daedra]

I'm fine with this team-up as long as I don't have to witness another fight among these two for Scott "no-prize" Summers, the fact that Jean has to live in a room connected to both logan and scott sounds like a punishment, she needs a cottage near the coast on krakoa mainland so that she can bang someone new and exciting.

[MechaJeanix]

Too many writers tossed the term omega around on whoever they are propping up, but Emma and Psylocke are not omegas. It’s ridiculous. At least Hickman had the sense to clean up and take out the trash so to speak.

I agree with you. At least Psylocke was only stated as being an omega telepath by a writer during an interview but it was in a comic that she had a power boost that involved AOA Jean Grey. Emma on the other hand was stated on panel as being an omega telepath.

I do think writers just couldn't help themselves. I am glad Hickman and JDW did something about it. It needed to be done.

[franckd]

I agree with you. At least Psylocke was only stated as being an omega telepath by a writer during an interview but it was in a comic that she had a power boost that involved AOA Jean Grey. Emma on the other hand was stated on panel as being an omega telepath.

I do think writers just couldn't help themselves. I am glad Hickman and JDW did something about it. It needed to be done.

Agreed. Thanks to Hickman, the topic about who's omega and who's not is closed.

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