X-MEN GIANT SIZE JEAN GREY & EMMA FROST by Jonathan Hickman & Russell Dauterman

[FluffyCyclopsRLZ]

I was scared you made a KitKat joke at first until I reread it.

Nah. More of a "Ororo desperately wanting to get the efff away from Kitty's 'I wanna be a grown-up AND a pirate! Yay!' antics if she were written her age" joke.

I mean, Emma's approval/blessing has to be some sort of ironic joke, right? Surely we'll get a scene of Jean calling her out on it telling Emma to stop trolling Kitty, right?

[RachelGrey]

yay!! the thread has returned to everyone speculating who is sleeping with who. This is exactly what the X-Men are about!!

[Nick Miller]

This thread (chef’s kiss)


Also, everyone is insane.

[Londo Bellian]

Also, everyone is insane.

Mental Corruption (精神汚染, Seishin Osen?) is a Skill where due to possessing a distorted mentality, it is possible for one to shut out any mental interference thaumaturgy. However, at the same time, it becomes impossible for one to come to a mutual understanding with individuals who do not possess an equivalent rank of Mental Corruption.

[Celestialbodies]

I mean * breaths deep knowing people will kill me * I think she didn't shine because she didn't exactly have the in-universe role or skillset that one would like to use in a world building series. You have the charismatic leaders, the politicians or economists, the sort of religious figures, the strategist and the tech experts. Jean wasn't really of particular use in this sense.

BUT

I think that it was made clear that she's like the heart of the team. Both in the very opening number when we see Krakoa and Xavier from her point of view and also in the space mission where she stood to me as the most human/sincere character. But I think it's only me since people hated it lol.

Isn't Jean literally, the role Jean was playing after her return, a politician figure in X-men Red going so far as to gain recognition from the UN, as well as Black Panther and Namor...continuing exactly where she left off in NXM?

why are Jean fans being so pessimistic. I can think of a ton of other characters, including my fave, who hasnt been central to these stories and u dont see fans of these characters making a fuss.

Two words, X-men Gold, Storm fans moreso than many should know "wait and see" is the usual line readers pass off when there faves are actually relevant to the plot!

Why are people whose fave is the center of the franchise at all times whining about what fans of any other character are saying? So silly.

Imagine the rage if Hickman had given Wolverine the 'Most Special Leader When It Matters' title. Would we hear the end of it?

As for Ms. Grey, aka Girlfriend 2 of 2, let us hope she doesn't get utterly embarrassed in this issue.

This is perhaps the most delightful part, I've seen the carnage unleashed on these boards from two groups of fans so their opinions are almost laughable given they've lost it over much less!

Some Jean fans are jumping the gun", All fans should wait and see. Not forever, but its not unreasonable to suggest waiting until the books she is actually slated to be starring in actually come out. The idea that she should be treated like a central character in books where she's not one of the main characters is mind boggling.

Hickman has said HoX/PoX were not about the X-Men, they were about the entire mutant community. Only a very small handful of characters got a chance to shine (Moira, Xavier and Magneto primarily) with a few good scenes for some of the others. Many of the staple and fan favorite characters had little or no appearance in those books at all because they weren't about them. Jean was not fantastic in those books, BUT she wasn't bad either. Shes one of my top 5 favorite X-Men and in my opinion she was exactly what she was supposed to be for the story. Even if you weren't a fan of her portrayal on the Orchis mission, her inclusion there, her reception upon resurrection, and her status on the council have clearly demonstrated that she's been placed at center of the new status quo. (Not to mention front and center in X-Force, Co-starring in the 1st issue of Giant-Size X-Men and one of the rotating cast members of X-Men) Its almost like she is slated to appear in more books than any X-Man except Wolverine. She wasn't relegated to wallpaper, she wasn't Worf'd to make someone else look better (well at least no more than any of the X-Men on that mission and she at least had an excuse), she has a role and it looks fairly important so far.

So yeah, her fans should be patient, all X-Men fans should be patient. Its possible that this will not be good. Its possible that everything else may be fantastic but the handling of some of the characters may suck. Its possible that some may just not like what comes. All of this and more is possible. Whats not possible is fairly judging it when only half of the first wave of books, have only released their first issue.

If you were a new fan of the X-men, that read only HOX/POX from those stories you'd have no idea who Jean was, on the opposite end in the same amount of time Hickman was able to do great jobs with Xavier, Magneto, Apocalypse, Destiny, Emma, Mystique, Nightcrawler, Nimrod, Polaris, Moira, Monet, and the Stepford Cuckoos, etc while doing fairly reasonable jobs with Cyke, Storm. While also being directly responsible for creating the new status quo for the entirety of the franchise. If we're aren't suppose to judge his own work, based on those 12 issues when some ongoing series get less, it is indeed laughable to expect another writer to save his version of the particular character we're discussing. I only have his work to base my current opinion on, that opinion did not change after X-men 1 but I suppose we should wait for the second issue of that as well.

We can also stop pretending that fans of Jean want her as the central figure of these stories, of the above characters listed only a handful received consistent attention, the difference in my opinion the little we did get meant more, and felt truer to their core. I continuously use Destiny as an example she didn't need to use her powers or lift a single finger and yet her role was incredibly memorable for me. You enjoyed the series, that's great but you nor no one else gets to tell readers how they evaluate an author's work especially when it was designed to set a new status for all the characters involved. Sure things could get better but based on the actual issues, I've actually read under the actual author that will be writing the actual one shot we're currently discussing I'm unimpressed. Others might feel differently, but if you'll notice the most vocal are also those fans who faves were given something to work with.

X-force is it's own entity, the same as Marauders, or Excalibur regardless of the job Percy does with Jean that has nothing to do with the current commentary on Hickman's version of the character who has been lackluster as of right now. This all becomes worse for fans of Jean as she's barely been back for two years and outside of maybe X-men Red she hasn't had the same focus as her peers.

[Redshipper]

I don't even know why this issue is such a big deal. They already settled the score. Jean made sure Emma was humiliated after she discovered the affair. There is nothing else to talk about. Now Scott is a different story. Jean needs to talk to Scott about the infidelity. He never paid for his actions. They should have a Giant size Scott and Jean issue where Jean gets closure for Scott's infidelity.

[jwatson]

I don't even know why this issue is such a big deal. They already settled the score. Jean made sure Emma was humiliated after she discovered the affair. There is nothing else to talk about. Now Scott is a different story. Jean needs to talk to Scott about the infidelity. He never paid for his actions. They should have a Giant size Scott and Jean issue where Jean gets closure for Scott's infidelity.

Especially when we all know as soon as Hickman writes Jean the way specific posters see her they'll be hiding out for a few days or on the boards sipping it up with a biscuit. This is a lot of energy on the same specific underlying issue. "Not my vision and no one can steer me from that.' *shrugs*

[jwatson]

Personally I think they should just let Jean force empathy on everyone so we can just move on. Since X-Men red is suppose to be the standard in what we should expect from Jean. A lot of conversation followed by fulfilling her ultimate goal by reworking the brain of anyone who opposes it so they turn into crying piles of emotion. Jean must turn all of marvel into emos one brain at a time

[Redshipper]

lol!

Also, justice would be Jean and Emma both find different love interests and forget about Scott. Even if Jean and Emma end up together it works. Neither should go back to Scott.

[Devaishwarya]

It's an issue because some readers are happily mired in not-so-distant past.
And...
I, personally, have absolutely no time for their mess, their fears, their anxieties...not here to argue, plead with them to change their minds or feelings...because I just do not care about them, at all.

Living for and loving these characters (Jean, Emma and Storm...et al) in the present and the future.

[Kisinith]

Isn't Jean literally, the role Jean was playing after her return, a politician figure in X-men Red going so far as to gain recognition from the UN, as well as Black Panther and Namor...continuing exactly where she left off in NXM?

Is she an underhanded politician willing to use her powers unethically to achieve the desired ends in the face of unreasoning, hostility? Does she have the business contacts and personal control over the Hellfire Club/Trade company? Using Emma Frost takes nothing away from Jean especially if she fits the role/need better.

Two words, X-men Gold, Storm fans moreso than many should know "wait and see" is the usual line readers pass off when there faves are actually relevant to the plot!

Hickman =/= Guggenheim. "Wait and see" can be a problem, but again doesn't mean it will be. Also no one is saying wait forever but instead suggesting give it a few issues of the actual comics they star in. The X-Men by and large were only guest stars in HoX/PoX.

This is perhaps the most delightful part, I've seen the carnage unleashed on these boards from two groups of fans so their opinions are almost laughable given they've lost it over much less!

As opposed to the small group of Jean fans who have consistently derailed damn near every thread, every conversation to whine about Jean or bitch about Emma?

If you were a new fan of the X-men, that read only HOX/POX from those stories you'd have no idea who Jean was, on the opposite end in the same amount of time Hickman was able to do great jobs with Xavier, Magneto, Apocalypse, Destiny, Emma, Mystique, Nightcrawler, Nimrod, Polaris, Moira, Monet, and the Stepford Cuckoos, etc while doing fairly reasonable jobs with Cyke, Storm. While also being directly responsible for creating the new status quo for the entirety of the franchise. If we're aren't suppose to judge his own work, based on those 12 issues when some ongoing series get less, it is indeed laughable to expect another writer to save his version of the particular character we're discussing. I only have his work to base my current opinion on, that opinion did not change after X-men 1 but I suppose we should wait for the second issue of that as well.

Knowing nothing about the characters before HoX... Jean appears on 6 of the 12 covers for the two series and again on X-Men #1... One of the 1st three characters who appear in book 1... The mutant who's PoV is used to introduce people to Krakoa, used to convey the emotion of the scene (hope and happiness)... Chosen for the what was billed as one of the most important missions ever... Maintained a psychic connection over millions of miles and has to watch all of her friends and family on the mission with her die before dying herself... You see the entire nation celebrate her and the teams triumphant resurrection... Chosen to sit on the governing body... She is the one who pushes hardest that the highest crime is killing someone who can't resurrect (ordinary humans) while directly challenging Apocalypse... Psychically bitch slapping Sabertooth into a drooling idiot when he was threatening the council... Front and center sharing beers with Cyclops, Wolverine and Emma Frost... Yeah, I can see how someone new to the IP might not understand her importance with that kind of showing.

Also of the ones you mentioned... Xavier, Magneto, Apocalypse, Destiny, Emma, Mystique, Nightcrawler, Nimrod, Polaris, Moira, Monet, and the Stepford Cuckoos the Bolded all had noticeably less impact than Jean. Destiny who had one good scene (admittedly damn good). Which leaves us with Xavier, Magneto, Emma and Moira. The three actual stars and Emma who had fewer appearances but her scenes were pretty damn good. So what? Once again Emma getting something nice does not take anything from Jean.

We can also stop pretending that fans of Jean want her as the central figure of these stories, of the above characters listed only a handful received consistent attention, the difference in my opinion the little we did get meant more, and felt truer to their core. I continuously use Destiny as an example she didn't need to use her powers or lift a single finger and yet her role was incredibly memorable for me. You enjoyed the series, that's great but you nor no one else gets to tell readers how they evaluate an author's work especially when it was designed to set a new status for all the characters involved. Sure things could get better but based on the actual issues, I've actually read under the actual author that will be writing the actual one shot we're currently discussing I'm unimpressed. Others might feel differently, but if you'll notice the most vocal are also those fans who faves were given something to work with.

I'm first a Magneto Fan, second a Cyclops fan, then third place cycles between Jean, Rogue and Magik. I fully acknowledge that and will not apologize for it either. Of course there are biases that come into play, however that doesn't render my opinion any less valid as you seem to want to imply. Twice in this post you sound that its specific groups of fans have less valid opinions because of who they like. Your critique of the fandom is largely off base because you overlook the root cause of these vocal debates, specifically a small number of Jean fans starting crap with Emma fans because of deep seated hostility and things like jealousy over Emma being chosen to interact with the politicians. In fact, its not even every Jean fan complaining, just a very vocal few versus almost everyone else.
Constantly.
In every thread.
With that observation, maybe its not the other fandoms that are the issue

X-force is it's own entity, the same as Marauders, or Excalibur regardless of the job Percy does with Jean that has nothing to do with the current commentary on Hickman's version of the character who has been lackluster as of right now. This all becomes worse for fans of Jean as she's barely been back for two years and outside of maybe X-men Red she hasn't had the same focus as her peers.

Ok? And? We still come back to the fact that your critiquing Hickman's use of the character when so far he's only had her in a guest starring role.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

lol!

Also, justice would be Jean and Emma both find different love interests and forget about Scott. Even if Jean and Emma end up together it works. Neither should go back to Scott.

This. But this is not the kind of world we live in.

[spirit2011]

lol!

Also, justice would be Jean and Emma both find different love interests and forget about Scott. Even if Jean and Emma end up together it works. Neither should go back to Scott.

No, Emma isn't inoccent on all of this. She abused Jean every chance she had

[PrezValentine]

I don't even know why this issue is such a big deal. They already settled the score. Jean made sure Emma was humiliated after she discovered the affair. There is nothing else to talk about. Now Scott is a different story. Jean needs to talk to Scott about the infidelity. He never paid for his actions. They should have a Giant size Scott and Jean issue where Jean gets closure for Scott's infidelity.

Dude already saw his son and his father figure die, or seem to die, almost committed suicide, got killed by the terrigen mists and had his name slandered for the sake of inhuman propaganda.

But he still has to pay for poor little Jean "lemme kiss this canadian runt bc my husband doesn't give me the D" Grey's hurt feelings.

Go figure. As far as I've said in the past, they should just let Scott move on from Jean and never have them share panel time again, but God is oblivious to my prayers and fills this rotten world with people stuck to this story.

[spirit2011]

Is she an underhanded politician willing to use her powers unethically to achieve the desired ends in the face of unreasoning, hostility? Does she have the business contacts and personal control over the Hellfire Club/Trade company? Using Emma Frost takes nothing away from Jean especially if she fits the role/need better.

Disagree.
That was the way that Hickman choose to frame the story, and I guess X-force shows that stakes are high.

Hickman =/= Guggenheim. "Wait and see" can be a problem, but again doesn't mean it will be. Also no one is saying wait forever but instead suggesting give it a few issues of the actual comics they star in. The X-Men by and large were only guest stars in HoX/PoX.

Well who knows if Hickman going to pay off in the end. Anyway people are free to criticize Hickman when they feel like it

As opposed to the small group of Jean fans who have consistently derailed damn near every thread, every conversation to whine about Jean or bitch about Emma?

Every fan complains a lot when they fave is getting the worse.