Page 33 of 41 FirstFirst ... 23293031323334353637 ... LastLast
Results 481 to 495 of 607
  1. #481
    Libre. People Of The Earth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Paris.
    Posts
    3,382

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    Looking this over, it would seem that the two lack the moral high ground based on those actions.
    Mind you, my point was about the Kraked not having the moral high ground, not about the sapiens somehow having it.
    Not the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    Even a cursory reading of overall human history would uncover that human governments do this(and worse...) on the regular.
    Whataboutism doesn't make Magneto and Apocalypse any less the supremacist mass murderers that they are.

    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    To me? You have a wash(at best...) there while there is an instance where you seem to realize that the diplomats for the mutant homeland clearly had the moral high ground.
    Yes, and as I already said, them having the moral high ground in that one instance doesn't annul who they are and what they did up until that point.
    If it wasn't clear to you, let me tell you again: Krakoa cannot have the moral high ground on anyone as long as murderers, killers and psychopaths are the ones that govern and represent them.

    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    Again, I'm just not seeing where mutants are in some seriously morally deficient position.
    You Don't see how appointing mass murderers and psychopaths as their leading représentatives put Krakoa in a morally bankrupt position… ?

    Interesting.
    "The means are as important as the end - we have to do this right or not at all.
    Anything less negates every belief we've ever had, every sacrifice we've ever made."


    "Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely."

    "No justice, no peace."

  2. #482
    Libre. People Of The Earth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Paris.
    Posts
    3,382

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    For those saying Krakoa is wrong, what is the alternative?
    No one is saying Krakoa is wrong, no one is discussing the existence of the country.
    What people are questionning is:

    1/ Why are the X-Men part of that initiative, given their whole point is coexistence in society with sapiens - Something that is the opposite of what's happening on Krakoa, no matter what reinterpretation some are putting around the term coexistence.

    2/ Why are the X-Men so accepting of supervillains in Krakoa, people that have physically abused, tortured, enslaved, killed on a mass scale, some of them still doing exactly that right now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Just before HoX, we arguably came from one of the worst time in X-history. The bulk of the X-men were seemingly killed in Disassembled and no one cared. You didnt see anyone trying to find out where they were or what happened. The world was fine with them dead.
    IIRC the world was still reeling from Nate Grey global assault on behalf of mutantkind, was it not? During Disassembled.
    Them not rushing after the X-Men isn't a surprise actually.

    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    The government officials used this as an opportunity to pass a vaccine to remove mutant powers, which itself was unstable and killed many of them. Not to mention the main goal was to eradicate mutantkind completely by preventing the X-gene from even being expressed in young mutants. Mutants were being murdered left and right in Rosenberg's run and no one cared.
    Again, no one question why Krakoa was created, we've all read the same books.
    That's not the point of the discussions happening here.
    At all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Krakoa works as a beacon of hope for mutantkind as they really need to take care of themselves bc they cant sit around and expect the world to. Its not perfect and we definitely will see some betrayal that may rock it but right now it is better than the previous status quo. As much as people did not like Rosenberg's run it served its purpose in highlighting just how bleak and horrific things got
    For the last time, no one is questionning why Krakoa exists.
    The X-Men's involvement, the villains' involvement, and the general direction Krakoa is taking is what's being discussed here.
    "The means are as important as the end - we have to do this right or not at all.
    Anything less negates every belief we've ever had, every sacrifice we've ever made."


    "Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely."

    "No justice, no peace."

  3. #483
    Libre. People Of The Earth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Paris.
    Posts
    3,382

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    The Apocalypse who left his first four horsemen behind in an act that saves the entirety of the planet right along with mutants.

    Is that the Apocalpse that we are talking about?

    Or, is it the Apocalypse who hasn't really posed much of a threat to baseline humanity since coming to the mutant homeland?

    Is that the Apocalypse we are talking about?
    Quote Originally Posted by Frobisher View Post
    Apocalypse also saved the world from a Brood invasion, doubtless among many other things.
    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    No one has forgotten who he is.

    He is the guy who has saved the world on at least a few occasions that we know of.
    The man litteraly has the blood of millions on his hands, and you choose to ignore all the exactions he committed to only push forth the acts that light him as a heroic figure.

    ...

    You know?
    That's actually funny because right now, IRL? we have the exact same thing being done by some people regarding certain historical figures with bloody, heinous acts littering their lives.

    It's as distasteful IRL as it is here, beyond being utterly hypocritical.
    "The means are as important as the end - we have to do this right or not at all.
    Anything less negates every belief we've ever had, every sacrifice we've ever made."


    "Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely."

    "No justice, no peace."

  4. #484
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    4,112

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by People Of The Earth View Post
    Again, no one question why Krakoa was created, we've all read the same books.
    That's not the point of the discussions happening here.
    At all.



    For the last time, no one is questionning why Krakoa exists.
    The X-Men's involvement, the villains' involvement, and the general direction Krakoa is taking is what's being discussed here.
    It's a distraction. Focusing on the why of Krakoa, which everyone knows, derails the conversation so people don't concrete on the problematic aspects of Krakoa or remembering how horrible the super-villains are/were that they're defending. Because Krakoa and the villains status on the island must not be questioned.

  5. #485
    Libre. People Of The Earth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Paris.
    Posts
    3,382

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Glio View Post
    There were a few people in House of X # 1 outraged that they hadn't explained how Banshee had been resurrected.

    I maintain my position that there are many comic readers who are unable to wait.
    And? So what?

    The whole point of this forum is for people to talk about what they've been reading and express what they think about it.

    You Don't like what some people say? That's fine, you Don't have to read their posts, you Don't even have to answer them.

    There's no point in trying to silence other posters.
    "The means are as important as the end - we have to do this right or not at all.
    Anything less negates every belief we've ever had, every sacrifice we've ever made."


    "Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely."

    "No justice, no peace."

  6. #486
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    27,614

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by People Of The Earth View Post
    No one is saying Krakoa is wrong, no one is discussing the existence of the country.
    What people are questionning is:

    1/ Why are the X-Men part of that initiative, given their whole point is coexistence in society with sapiens - Something that is the opposite of what's happening on Krakoa, no matter what reinterpretation some are putting around the term coexistence.

    2/ Why are the X-Men so accepting of supervillains in Krakoa, people that have physically abused, tortured, enslaved, killed on a mass scale, some of them still doing exactly that right now.
    WTH? The post I quoted flat out said Krakoa is wrong.

    IIRC the world was still reeling from Nate Grey global assault on behalf of mutantkind, was it not? During Disassembled.
    Them not rushing after the X-Men isn't a surprise actually.
    Thats no excuse. I dont expect the average citizen to do anything but where were the Avengers? They were helping with the global catastrophes that Nate started but once the X-men 'died', they didnt give a f--k. They were fine with dozens of heroes disappearing

    Again, no one question why Krakoa was created, we've all read the same books.
    That's not the point of the discussions happening here.
    At all.
    Dont jump into a conversation and start making statements about whats been exchanged without reading everything


    For the last time, no one is questionning why Krakoa exists.
    The X-Men's involvement, the villains' involvement, and the general direction Krakoa is taking is what's being discussed here.
    and for the last time if you are going to respond to someone that wasnt talking to you, do your due diligence about whats been said

  7. #487
    Extraordinary Member Glio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    6,187

    Default

    When the X-Men disappeared, everyone was happy and took the opportunity to massacre the mutants without anyone getting in the way.

    And are you surprised that the X-Men don't want to live in the United States anymore? The Americans have made it clear that they do not want mutants in their country, so they are gone.

    But of course, it doesn't sit well with Americans that mutants found their own nation. Everything seems wrong to them. Do you know the concept of safe space for minorities? Krakoa is a safe space.

  8. #488
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    27,614

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Glio View Post
    When the X-Men disappeared, everyone was happy and took the opportunity to massacre the mutants without anyone getting in the way.

    And are you surprised that the X-Men don't want to live in the United States anymore? The Americans have made it clear that they do not want mutants in their country, so they are gone.

    But of course, it doesn't sit well with Americans that mutants found their own nation. Everything seems wrong to them. Do you know the concept of safe space for minorities? Krakoa is a safe space.
    There is so much hypocrisy with that. Like people hate mutants and have told them to go away and they finally have and now its a problem bc they are thriving and possibly could become more influential than the countries which they fled from.

  9. #489
    Extraordinary Member Glio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    6,187

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    There is so much hypocrisy with that. Like people hate mutants and have told them to go away and they finally have and now its a problem bc they are thriving and possibly could become more influential than the countries which they fled from.
    At X-Men Gold they wanted to deport them. Mutants who had been born in the USA. Where were they even going to throw them?

    And now they are all crying because the mutants do not want to live in the United States. Humans do not want mutants to integrate, nor do they want them to live independently, they just want them not to live.

  10. #490
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    7,421

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Glio View Post
    At X-Men Gold they wanted to deport them. Mutants who had been born in the USA. Where were they even going to throw them?
    Probably the same place Magneto told all the humans who lived in Genosha to go after he took it over and declared it a mutant only country.

  11. #491
    Invincible Member numberthirty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    24,858

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by People Of The Earth View Post
    The man litteraly has the blood of millions on his hands, and you choose to ignore all the exactions he committed to only push forth the acts that light him as a heroic figure.

    ...

    You know?
    That's actually funny because right now, IRL? we have the exact same thing being done by some people regarding certain historical figures with bloody, heinous acts littering their lives.

    It's as distasteful IRL as it is here, beyond being utterly hypocritical.
    First, ask yourself how many of the folks you are attempting to equate this with actually played a role(or on their own...) in keeping humanity from being wiped off of the face of the planet Earth.

    Once you have that answer, ask yourself how many of the above group have actually done so on more than one occasion.

    After you've done all of that, consider if the reality might be that an "Apple..."/"Orange..." comparison is being made in order to try to tie a fictional work to actual reality.

  12. #492
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    7,421

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
    First, ask yourself how many of the folks you are attempting to equate this with actually played a role(or on their own...) in keeping humanity from being wiped off of the face of the planet Earth.

    Once you have that answer, ask yourself how many of the above group have actually done so on more than one occasion.

    After you've done all of that, consider if the reality might be that an "Apple..."/"Orange..." comparison is being made in order to try to tie a fictional work to actual reality.
    Sure he's saved the world a time or two, but he's personally tried to end it even more time than that. Scales still tip towards him being a bad guy.

  13. #493
    Invincible Member numberthirty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    24,858

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by People Of The Earth View Post
    ...

    You Don't see how appointing mass murderers and psychopaths as their leading représentatives put Krakoa in a morally bankrupt position… ?

    Interesting.
    When many nations on the planet are still thriving on the land of people they almost wiped out and on the labor of people who had no stake?

    No. I'd say your definition of "Morally Bankrupt..." is questionable.

    Even more questionable when said representatives clearly stayed their respective hands when attempts on their lives were made.

    Those representatives are working towards change while others are just staying the course.

  14. #494
    Invincible Member numberthirty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    24,858

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    Sure he's saved the world a time or two, but he's personally tried to end it even more time than that. Scales still tip towards him being a bad guy.
    When one of those times involved leaving what may very well have been his family to keep humanity from being wiped out?

    Politely disagree.

  15. #495
    Extraordinary Member Glio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    6,187

    Default

    If mutants couldn't be in countries with leaders who are warmongering psychopaths, the X-Men would have had to leave the United States a long time ago.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •