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  1. #586
    Astonishing Member Veitha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    A fun job for the one empath we know of for certain, Empath, who has been retconned into a sociopath (as opposed to just a bad, bad person)...

    And yet that could be interesting. He can sense emotion, and manipulate it. He *knows* what healthy non-traumatized people 'feel' like, thanks to his powers, and it probably 'sounds more harmonious' to be surrounded by healthy psyches and not people in the grip of PTSD flashbacks or anxieties or whatever (which must 'sound' more discordant to an empath, and be, if nothing else, annoying, even to
    a sociopath, like a bunch of tuneless people singing karoake badly, or someone spray painted clashing colored graffiti over everything in sight).

    And so, it would make some sort of sense that even an antisocial empath could be motivated to help people experiencing trauma if only to shut out the noise. (And, conversely, when things get too peaceful and stable, to stir some **** up, which could explain the need to get him on a team, since he's a disruptive agent, left to his own devices...)
    I think they should have a fair amount of empaths on the island now, and they should have more telepaths than just the usual ones too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Rogue tried to isolate her from her friends in the Avengers, and she wasn't subtle about it. It failed badly because the Avengers saw right through Rogue and told her off. Don't reduce every bad thing Scott did to being "mean." The X-men went straight to the violence when it came to Wanda, they acted more like the Imperial Guard over Jean then X-men.

    Edit: And of course we can't forget the time Rogue murdered Wanda against Wolverine's orders.
    new phone who dis

  2. #587
    Extraordinary Member Glio's Avatar
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    The mutants have called Wanda "Karen", they should be tried for hate speech.

  3. #588
    Ultimate Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingdom X View Post
    I feel like it hasn’t been talked about as a big deal because Tini isn’t a great writer. He not only put Rogue into a coma, but put her in the position where she had to kill him with her powers. I feel Rogue would be at least a lil scarred by that.
    Yes, but the worst part would be having to make sense of Apoccy's thoughts.

  4. #589
    Extraordinary Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Rogue tried to isolate her from her friends in the Avengers, and she wasn't subtle about it.
    lol Sooooo because The Pretender can't deal with what most teens endure every day in High School, everyone should just let that GenoSlide?? LOL
    It failed badly because the Avengers saw right through Rogue and told her off.
    Cool? Yes...after the loss of her family telling Rogue off for getting upset with the Pretender. #smdh
    Big Man....

    Being glib about your role in the erasure of a minority, then questioning the merit of more being born is the worse kinda cringe, If you admire the Avengers loyalty to such a person *cringe* *cringe*
    Don't reduce every bad thing Scott did to being "mean." The X-men went straight to the violence when it came to Wanda, they acted more like the Imperial Guard over Jean then X-men.
    Yeah? Did she die tho?
    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Edit: And of course we can't forget the time Rogue murdered Wanda against Wolverine's orders.
    lol she is literally teaming up with a villain to do a spell that'll effect all of mutantdom...

    I mean what would you do to save your people?
    GrindrStone(D)

  5. #590
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroHomo View Post
    lol Sooooo because The Pretender can't deal with what most teens endure every day in High School, everyone should just let that GenoSlide?? LOL
    Social networks are vital for everyone's survival and they're not teenagers. Why are you endorsing what this poor teenagers go through? This is disingenuous when villains who have deliberately tried to genocide mutants, Sinister, get a free pass. I at least acknowledge what they both did was wrong, mutant lives are measured by how much a character is liked.

    Cool? Yes...after the loss of her family telling Rogue off for getting upset with the Pretender. #smdh
    Being glib in your role in thee rare of a minority, then questioning the merit of being born is worse kinda cringe, If you admire Avenger loyalty to such a person

    Being glib about your role in the erasure of a minority, then questioning the merit of more being born is the worse kinda cringe, If you admire the Avengers loyalty to such a person *cringe* *cringe*
    She was wrong there, but this is cherrypicking. Wanda has shown remorse over what she did, which is more than I can say for evil mutants that are being supported. But that's the problem, isn't it? It's not that she did something terrible, it's that Marvel is characterising her as sympathetic. Rogue can be upset without doing that to Wanda. This is especially ironic with who the X-men are palling round with these days.


    Yeah? Did she die tho?
    Let's not pretend Wanda dying would make you like her more.

    lol she is literally teaming up with a villain to do a spell that'll effect all of mutantdom...
    Did you read Ragnarok Now? She was transporting a mutant army to their location, not doing what the Apocalypse Twins wanted.

    I mean what would you do to save your people?
    Rogue's not saving anyone, all she did was murder someone for something she didn't do - the context was Wanda was a double agent and this was against Wolverine's orders, who was sickened by her act.

  6. #591
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Did you read Ragnarok Now? She was transporting a mutant army to their location, not doing what the Apocalypse Twins wanted.
    Wanda might have been trying betray the twins and transport a mutant army to their location but that was doing exactly what the Apocalypse Twins wanted because they were prepared for her betrayal besides which Rogue didn't know that until after stabbing Wanda all she know was that Wanda was casting a spell to affect all mutants again, a spell that put an end to Xavier's dream of humans and mutants co-existence until time travel was used to prevent the spell from being cast.

  7. #592
    Extraordinary Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tasuxeda View Post
    Wanda might have been trying betray the twins and transport a mutant army to their location but that was doing exactly what the Apocalypse Twins wanted because they were prepared for her betrayal besides which Rogue didn't know that until after stabbing Wanda all she know was that Wanda was casting a spell to affect all mutants again, a spell that put an end to Xavier's dream of humans and mutants co-existence until time travel was used to prevent the spell from being cast.
    Exactly...I don't see how Rogue did anything wrong based on the knowledge she had at the time. Captain America didn't, Neither did Sunfire or Wolverine. The only people who knew that she wasn't actually gonna commit genocide against mutants (again) were WonderMan....and Wanda herself...although tbh Im sure she wasnt sure how she would act....
    I mean even tho I cheered at this scene....

    It seemed like the best decision at the time Rouge voiced a lotta the same anger many X-Fans felt. So her being the mutant to kill the Pretender woulda felt like a lil llike justice.
    when The Pretenders true intentions were to save not harm mutants Rogue would mourn, maybe quit being a hero for a time. The Pretender would stil be a hero but just in a time out But Rouges violent death on the next page was uncalled for and Buuut WonderMan's suicide to save the Pretender and it became ridiculous at that point just made Xfans frustrated that Wanda would get any real repercussions for her role in MDay. And since it was such a traumatic part of the X-Mythos that for no one to get the slightest hint of a fallout except Mutants seemed like Marvel was intentionally sabotaging the franchise that kept it afloat for many years.
    Last edited by BroHomo; 07-10-2020 at 11:10 AM.
    GrindrStone(D)

  8. #593
    Astonishing Member Veitha's Avatar
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    We should also take into consideration what had happened to Rogue right before that. She had been fighting for her life and saw Logan die (or she thought he had died) right in front of her. She had been through hell while that happened while Wanda was having sex with Wonder Man in a five stars hotel room.

    If we want to talk trauma and the state of one's mind, we should do that for everyone.

  9. #594
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    If the heroes had listened to Emma and killed Wanda as she suggested, we wouldnt be arguing about this mess years later. Rogue was trying to spare us more of this nonsense

  10. #595
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    If the heroes had listened to Emma and killed Wanda as she suggested, we wouldnt be arguing about this mess years later. Rogue was trying to spare us more of this nonsense
    If Wanda was actually able to make it NO More Mutants instead of just "very very few mutants" we wouldn't have to deal with any of this either.

  11. #596
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroHomo View Post
    Exactly...I don't see how Rogue did anything wrong based on the knowledge she had at the time. Captain America didn't, Neither did Sunfire or Wolverine. The only people who knew that she wasn't actually gonna commit genocide against mutants (again) were WonderMan....and Wanda herself...although tbh Im sure she wasnt sure how she would act....
    I mean even tho I cheered at this scene....

    It seemed like the best decision at the time Rouge voiced a lotta the same anger many X-Fans felt. So her being the mutant to kill the Pretender woulda felt like a lil llike justice.
    when The Pretenders true intentions were to save not harm mutants Rogue would mourn, maybe quit being a hero for a time. The Pretender would stil be a hero but just in a time out But Rouges violent death on the next page was uncalled for and Buuut WonderMan's suicide to save the Pretender and it became ridiculous at that point just made Xfans frustrated that Wanda would get any real repercussions for her role in MDay. And since it was such a traumatic part of the X-Mythos that for no one to get the slightest hint of a fallout except Mutants seemed like Marvel was intentionally sabotaging the franchise that kept it afloat for many years.
    Wolverine explicitly told her not to kill Wanda, and she's a veteran super-hero she could have incapacitated Wanda without killing her. Those fans would be wrong, even today this murder did nothing to sate their appetite for revenge on her. But they will give Sinister a pass for depowering mutants and massacring the Morlocks.

    Wanda wasn't a hero for a time, she was amnesiac and without powers in Latveria. She vanished off the face of the Earth in comics for years.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tasuxeda View Post
    Wanda might have been trying betray the twins and transport a mutant army to their location but that was doing exactly what the Apocalypse Twins wanted because they were prepared for her betrayal besides which Rogue didn't know that until after stabbing Wanda all she know was that Wanda was casting a spell to affect all mutants again, a spell that put an end to Xavier's dream of humans and mutants co-existence until time travel was used to prevent the spell from being cast.
    That didn't stop her working against them, just that she was outsmarted by super-villains. Rogue didn't care, she was told not to harm Wanda by Wolverine and went against his orders. This incident was used by Daken to torture Logan as he saw it from distance.
    Last edited by Steel Inquisitor; 07-10-2020 at 06:48 PM.

  12. #597
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    That didn't stop her working against them, just that she was outsmarted by super-villains. Rogue didn't care, she was told not to harm Wanda by Wolverine and went against his orders. This incident was used by Daken to torture Logan as he saw it from distance.
    Yes it doesn't change that Wanda's plan was intended to counter what she though was the twins plan although when you think about it Wanda plan was to kidnap every mutant on the planet to draft them into her mutant army without their consent or their parent/guardians consent for the underage mutants so Wanda's plan was very problematic and should have been stopped just not by killing Wanda.

  13. #598
    Militantly Indifferent Kisinith's Avatar
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    Really? We're back to discussing the godawful Uncanny Avengers? Every single person in that book was not just massively out of character, but beaten half to death by the idiot ball.

    As far as Wanda's "plan" It was one of the stupidest, asinine, most ill conceived train-wrecks of a plan to ever grace the publishing company that thought "Sins Past" and "One More Day" were good ideas. The Apoc Twins wanted her to teleport all of mutants to an "Ark" to survive the destruction of Earth. Her plan was to gather all of Earths mutants into one large glorious army to defeat the twins... aboard their ark... Essentially doing exactly what they wanted. That stupidity alone aside, this was right after AvX when new mutants just started to reemerge, which means that the VAST majority of her "soldiers" were going to be untrained teenagers, who may or may not even know how to use their powers, and who may or may not even have combat focused powers. It wasn't a plan designed to stop villains it was a plan designed to get a lot of innocent people killed. If you actually think critically about it, it was a plan that needed to be stopped.

    Besides all of that if she had enough power to forcibly teleport that many ultra powerful mutants (against their will) why didn't she instead use a fraction of that power and teleport the twins (Shithead and Dipshit) into the sun. Much easier, much less dangerous (including to herself).

    The sad thing about Uncanny Avengers is that Rogue was by far the most sympathetic character in that book. Not because she was supposed to be, the writer wanted to make her in the wrong, but because the story was so hilariously ill conceived that his "correct" characters Havoc, Scarlet Witch, Captain America and to some extent Wolverine all come across so much worse.
    Last edited by Kisinith; 07-20-2020 at 01:47 PM.

  14. #599
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kisinith View Post
    Really? We're back to discussing the godawful Uncanny Avengers? Every single person in that book was not just massively out of character, but beaten half to death by the idiot ball.
    Except for Sunfire.

    First time he was a regular in a book.

  15. #600
    Astonishing Member Veitha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kisinith View Post
    Really? We're back to discussing the godawful Uncanny Avengers? Every single person in that book was not just massively out of character, but beaten half to death by the idiot ball.

    As far as Wanda's "plan" It was one of the stupidest, asinine, most ill conceived train-wrecks of a plan to ever grace the publishing company that thought "Sins Past" and "One More Day" were good ideas. The Apoc Twins wanted her to teleport all of mutants to an "Ark" to survive the destruction of Earth. Her plan was to gather all of Earths mutants into one large glorious army to defeat the twins... aboard their ark... Essentially doing exactly what they wanted. That stupidity alone aside, this was right after AvX when new mutants just started to reemerge, which means that the VAST majority of her "soldiers" were going to be untrained teenagers, who may or may not even know how to use their powers, and who may or may not even have combat focused powers. It wasn't a plan designed to stop villains it was a plan designed to get a lot of innocent people killed. If you actually think critically about it, it was a plan that needed to be stopped.

    Besides all of that if she had enough power to forcibly teleport that many ultra powerful mutants (against their will) why didn't she instead use a fraction of that power and teleport the twins (Shithead and Dipshit) into the sun. Much easier, much less dangerous (including to herself).

    The sad thing about Uncanny Avengers is that Rogue was by far the most sympathetic character in that book. Not because she was supposed to be, the writer wanted to make her in the wrong, but because the story was so hilariously ill conceived that his "correct" characters Havoc, Scarlet Witch, Captain America and to some extent Wolverine all come across so much worse.
    I'd like to add that people against Rogue here also defend Wanda by using her mental state at the time of Decimation as the main reason why she shouldn't pay any consequences for it. Rogue here had gone through hell and saw Logan die (as far as she knew) but that's completely ignored to post just that page and paint Wanda as a martyr. In the meantime, Wanda was having sex with Wonderman in a luxury room and forging that nonsense plan that was just helping the Twins.

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