What of Xavier's Dream?

[JTFSXX]

One of the things that first drew me to the X-Men comics was the idealism of Xavier's dream of Mutants and Humans living together in peace. It has been fascinating to watch over the years how that dream has flourished, floundered, and at times crumbled as it came into contact with the reality of prejudice and fear and as the author of the dream himself has demonstrated his own shortcomings. As the X-Men move once again into an era of segregation, I am wondering......what role does that vision play in the life of the current Mutant community? Has it been entirely set-aside? Does it still motivate some members of the community? Is there still hope in it?

[spirit2011]

One of the things that first drew me to the X-Men comics was the idealism of Xavier's dream of Mutants and Humans living together in peace. It has been fascinating to watch over the years how that dream has flourished, floundered, and at times crumbled as it came into contact with the reality of prejudice and fear and as the author of the dream himself has demonstrated his own shortcomings. As the X-Men move once again into an era of segregation, I am wondering......what role does that vision play in the life of the current Mutant community? Has it been entirely set-aside? Does it still motivate some members of the community? Is there still hope in it?

Completely set-aside?

seems like it. And Xavier plan is win the evolution game by wiping out humans

[Jman27]

I don't think the xmen can even work if they don't have humans hating mutants if they don't what's their purpose?

[People Of The Earth]

One of the things that first drew me to the X-Men comics was the idealism of Xavier's dream of Mutants and Humans living together in peace. It has been fascinating to watch over the years how that dream has flourished, floundered, and at times crumbled as it came into contact with the reality of prejudice and fear and as the author of the dream himself has demonstrated his own shortcomings. As the X-Men move once again into an era of segregation, I am wondering......what role does that vision play in the life of the current Mutant community? Has it been entirely set-aside? Does it still motivate some members of the community? Is there still hope in it?

Yes, there is. As long as there are mutants and sapiens willing to fight for coexistence, there is hope in that particular dream.
Sadly to your other questions, all we can answer is "we Don't know yet" which is frustrating at the very least.

[Kisinith]

Xaviers dream of human/mutant coexistence isn't dead in Krakoa and if you look carefully thats not what he said. What is dead and gone is the hope that he could freely give mutant gifts (Krakoan medication) in the hope of fostering harmony.

"In the past they would have been a gift. Something freely given by me -- to you-- because I believed it would create harmony between our two peoples. That was my dream --harmony-- but you have taught me a harsh lesson: that dream was a lie. You see all I ever wanted was peace between humans and mutants. All I ever wanted was to love you and for you to love us. We wanted to save you --and we did, many times-- but in return all you did was stand by while evil men killed our children. Over 16 million of them. So there will be no gift... for you have not earned it. We will however let you pay for it."

The X-Men are still fighting for for a world of peaceful integration, but from a place of safety for all mutants not just the select few living in a fortress mansion and making the humans earn the gifts they offer. Its a more pragmatic approach but the end goal is still the same. Commercial coexistence is still peaceful coexistence.

[Londo Bellian]

How many years will that last in terms of publication? Can that feasibly be the new default setting for "X-Men," with everything that came before reduced to being laughed at as "Early Installment Weirdness"?

Every time the word dream is mentioned in the X-forums since the HoxPoxDox began, this plays in my head.

[powerpax]

How many years will that last in terms of publication? Can that feasibly be the new default setting for "X-Men," with everything that came before reduced to being laughed at as "Early Installment Weirdness"?

Who is "laughing" at the past? The books changed. They needed to, badly.

[Londo Bellian]

You and I are cursed not to agree on interpretations. Hickman told true that the HoxPoxDox will cause epic loggerheads of opinions.

[Knives]

While some look suspiciously on the new X-men course, sales are still well overtaking or match up to Batman, something that hasn't happened in years .

[People Of The Earth]

Xaviers dream of human/mutant coexistence isn't dead in Krakoa and if you look carefully thats not what he said. What is dead and gone is the hope that he could freely give mutant gifts (Krakoan medication) in the hope of fostering harmony.



The X-Men are still fighting for for a world of peaceful integration, but from a place of safety for all mutants not just the select few living in a fortress mansion and making the humans earn the gifts they offer. Its a more pragmatic approach but the end goal is still the same. Commercial coexistence is still peaceful coexistence.

The man litteraly said his dream was a lie, so I have no clue how you can say afterward that he and his X-Men are still fighting for it.

[Kisinith]

The man litteraly said his dream was a lie, so I have no clue how you can say afterward that he and his X-Men are still fighting for it.

By paying attention to the whole of what he said and not cherry picking just a part of it. He never said everything he believed was a lie. He never said there couldn't be peace. He never said they couldn't coexist. If you go back to my last post I actually included his quote. He no longer believes the peace and harmony of his vision currently exists (because it doesn't) but that also doesn't mean that it isn't something you can't work towards. He's still offering peace, love, brotherhood and some damn near miraculous drugs, but not for free, now people have to pay for it, now they have to earn it. He's not assuming peace he's made it a currency for ordinary humans to use to buy longer better lives.

One of the big problems with Xaviers dream is that many people (and posters) seem to feel like the X-Men have to live as if they had already achieved it. X-Men comics are not set in a world where mutants and humans can coexist peacefully, and they never have been. If you look at the whole of Xavier's speech, implicit was the recognition that they don't live in harmony and can't afford to keep giving away advantages in the name of something that isn't there, BUT it is a goal that they can work towards, it is a goal they can achieve, but haven't yet.

This is further born out if you look at the actions of the Krakoans. They haven't declared war, they haven't gone around indiscriminately attacking humans. They are trying to work with them but on a macro down scale rather than a micro up one. To start by establishing coexistence among nations rather than focusing on the community or individual level. It may not be what they did before, it may not be the peaceful coexistence you are looking for, but it is peaceful coexistence. So by virtue of the actions taken the dream is still alive. You have to alter how you look at it. Dawn of X represents a change in methodology not necessarily a change in goal. The simple fact is that genocide precludes peaceful coexistence and until you can deal with that threat perpetually hanging over your head then community activism isn't going to accomplish anything.

The X-Men have perpetually been an allegory for repressed/oppressed minorities of all types. It looks to me like the latest group to fall under that banner is that of the refugee rather more do than those lacking than civil rights. That seems to be the thrust of Hickman's comics, at least in my opinion so far.

[RachelGrey]

By paying attention to the whole of what he said and not cherry picking just a part of it. He never said everything he believed was a lie. He never said there couldn't be peace. He never said they couldn't coexist. If you go back to my last post I actually included his quote. He no longer believes the peace and harmony of his vision currently exists (because it doesn't) but that also doesn't mean that it isn't something you can't work towards. He's still offering peace, love, brotherhood and some damn near miraculous drugs, but not for free, now people have to pay for it, now they have to earn it. He's not assuming peace he's made it a currency for ordinary humans to use to buy longer better lives.

One of the big problems with Xaviers dream is that many people (and posters) seem to feel like the X-Men have to live as if they had already achieved it. X-Men comics are not set in a world where mutants and humans can coexist peacefully, and they never have been. If you look at the whole of what Xavier said in that speech was the recognition that they don't live in harmony and can't afford to keep giving away advantages in the name of something that isn't there, BUT it is a goal that they can work towards it is a goal they can achieve but haven't yet.

This is further born out if you look at the actions of the Krakoans. They haven't declared war, they haven't gone around indiscriminately attacking humans. They are trying to work with the but on a macro down scale rather than a micro up one. To start by establishing coexistence among nations rather than focusing on the community or individual level. It may not be what they did before, it may not be the peaceful coexistence you are looking for but it is peaceful coexistence. So by virtue of the actions taken the dream is still alive. You have to alter how you look at it Dawn of X represents a change in methodology not necessarily a change in goal. Simple fact is that genocide precludes peaceful coexistence and until you can deal with that threat perpetually hanging over your head then community activism isn't going anywhere.

The X-Men have perpetually been an allegory for repressed/oppressed minorities of all types. It looks to me like the latest group to fall under that banner is that of the refugee rather more than those lacking than civil rights.

They are already behaving far more diplomatically than a lot of countries. They have Emma Frost going around and signing peace treaties with as many countries as they can, and then proceeding to engage in trade with as many countries as they can.

The only area they are acting with aggression is to recover imprisoned mutants so those mutants can escape and come to Krakoa. Each time they successfully rescue the mutants who are being held, the Krakoan forces step back and retreat from the area. Their mission is simply rescue their people and then pull back!

[spirit2011]

The man litteraly said his dream was a lie, so I have no clue how you can say afterward that he and his X-Men are still fighting for it.

Xavier asked to Mageneto to not let him get soft. Xavier killed his own dream

[LordUltimus]

Considering New Mutants is partially supposed to be about "Have you heard the good word about Krakoa?", I imagine we're probably going to go into a lot of the nitty gritty with regards towards details there.

[Electricmastro]

One of the things that first drew me to the X-Men comics was the idealism of Xavier's dream of Mutants and Humans living together in peace. It has been fascinating to watch over the years how that dream has flourished, floundered, and at times crumbled as it came into contact with the reality of prejudice and fear and as the author of the dream himself has demonstrated his own shortcomings. As the X-Men move once again into an era of segregation, I am wondering......what role does that vision play in the life of the current Mutant community? Has it been entirely set-aside? Does it still motivate some members of the community? Is there still hope in it?

I think there's still hope in it assuming one can very much compare his situation with Martin Luther King's, a person that I've frequently seen Xavier compared to. Hickman's writing definitely give more productive hope than the many of the previous writers had done, which involved protest after protest and atrocity after atrocity against mutants in a way that just ended up feeling more tired and redundant than it was worth. Hickman's writing, on the other hand, feels more refreshing and definitely keeps within the spirit of Stan Lee and Jack Kirby's original intention with the X-Men.