What of Xavier's Dream?

[Rev9]

Steel Inquisitor :
'This thread has just been whitewashing Apocalypse as if he was a hero, and you've been in numerous threads which have lionised the villains. I've lost track of the arguments I've had that the mutant super-villains in the X-men titles are in fact super-villains. Acknowledging the facts of the story, rather than making fanon as if this were discussing fanfic rather comics published by Marvel'

My two cents is this there are two ways to go about any major Franchise reboot the choice is yours
1.You take the story with a clean slate, as in new continuity is a new beginning,forget other iterations,in this story cannon -iteration of so and so is as he/she/it is depicted

2. You treat new continuity with all previous continuities as a prologue and take all in stride.

From your deliberations,I see you prefer the second option.Now the beauty of Hickman's narrative is in effect it is an X-Men Multiverse, Moira ever so slightly has lived different lives she has met at face value the same mutants but not absolutely identical. It is likely that by interacting with specific mutants she changes their destiny.In life 9 we are already clued in that Apocalypse is an ally to mutantdom, you may not like it and it is your prerogative but it is true! No ulterior motive,just a radically tougher harder stance against a machine apocalypse than Xavier could be.

So already in one life we see an ally (even if begrudgingly) of the mutants.

Which brings me to my point in life 10 treat it as a do-over, whether Apoc is a scheming villain we do not know,but at the very least we know in life 10 millennia ago he did save the earth from an invasion, it may not have been for human benefit but in life 10 humans are still walking the earth when they could have been extinct were it not for Apocalypse.

So if you are willing to give option 1 a chance go with it,get surprised, see the shoe drop but either way this is a new life,with new potential for a classic villain,maybe the very Bronze age he says almost ended civilization was him throwing a fit,or maybe it was as war between him or something worse that caused mass casualties.With other lives sure we can say maybe he was a monster,megalomaniac and worse but we are yet to see his and mutant destiny in life 10

With the multiverse in mind I just wouldn't be so dogmatic is all I'm saying

[AJpyro]

Ok why is there so much harping on humans being on Kraokoa?

1. A majority of them have been really good at blowing uo xmen stuff.

2. Kraokoa just opened. Stuff
is being figured out and safeguards need to be put in.

3. Shogo is there.

Its still the beginning. You don't invite people who try to kill you to your house in the first week.

And for those that don't try to kill you, you gotta make sure the place is spick and span.

[Veitha]

Ok why is there so much harping on humans being on Kraokoa?

1. A majority of them have been really good at blowing uo xmen stuff.

2. Kraokoa just opened. Stuff
is being figured out and safeguards need to be put in.

3. Shogo is there.

Its still the beginning. You don't invite people who try to kill you to your house in the first week.

And for those that don't try to kill you, you gotta make sure the place is spick and span.

Don't say that, apparently you don't read enough comics if you think Marvel Universe humans are bigots.

And don't say number 2 either! Because it's a "poor excuse".

[Havok83]

Those making a big deal about humans not on Krakoa make no sense. To reiterate Krakoa is a nation that is about 2-3 months old and it was created in response to humans repeatedly trying to exterminate mutants. Humans are STILL trying to do that and Xavier was murdered by humans on Krakoa soil. WTH would they open things up to give any human free access to the island? Think people, THINK.

Why would humans want to be on Krakoa anyway? The main reasons why people go to foreign countries are to vacation, get an education and/or job, and visit family Well lets break this all down.

1. Krakoa is new and they have not commercialized it. They are unlikely to as they do not need the revenue. The island itself is a living being whom they consider sacred so we arent going to see a Mutant Disney resort for humans to exploit

2. We dont know what the education system is like on Krakoa but its most likely tailored to the mutant experience. Being as new as it is, any education earned here isnt going to be accredited and therefore would be useless outside of Krakoa. There is alot unknown about the economy and the workforce but the average human doesnt have much to offer an island of diverse super beings with advanced tech

3. We know there are human family members and friends on the island, which makes sense bc the mutants can vouch for these people. Random strangers? Absolutely not. They can be escorted.

I really dont see the problem here. Most major countries have restriction when it comes to immigration. A person can not enter the United States without permission. Thats why Visa's exist. Customs can be very strict when you enter and leave a country in terms of the length of time you stay, where you stay, the reason, what you import/export, etc... Why is it so wrong for Krakoa to restriction immigration when that is literally a thing common amongst other nations?

[Criticalfan]

"Xavier's Dream" lasted until Year Zero in PoX #6, when he met Moira and she broke him.
After that, in every X-Comic for the last sixty years, it's been fake BS that he gaslighted his students with.

[Havok83]

"Xavier's Dream" lasted until Year Zero in PoX #6, when he met Moira and she broke him.
After that, in every X-Comic for the last sixty years, it's been fake BS that he gaslighted his students with.

which itself isnt exactly new information bc we've known for years that his dream was built on lies and that he's been decieving and manipulating them for the longest time. PoX just shed new light on that

[Zelena]

A person can not enter the United States without permission.

I doubt that the United States refuses you the Visa because you don't have the right color of skin. Or anything that is a part of your genotype, something that you are not responsible.

Anyway, it's not a practical problem, because I doubt that the humans that don't have close ties with people in Krakoa would be eager to go to Krakoa.
And anyone that would go to Krakoa can be scanned by telepaths, so no risk…

It's a political message: we have as much racial prejudice as you have.

[Havok83]

I doubt that the United States refuses you the Visa because you don't have the right color of skin. Or anything that is a part of your genotype, something that you are not responsible.

Anyway, it's not a practical problem, because I doubt that the humans that don't have close ties with people in Krakoa would be eager to go to Krakoa.
And anyone that would go to Krakoa can be scanned by telepaths, so no risk…

It's a political message: we have as much racial prejudice as you have.

Guess you havent kept up with Trump's America

[Glio]

I doubt that the United States refuses you the Visa because you don't have the right color of skin. Or anything that is a part of your genotype, something that you are not responsible.

Tell that to someone Arab.

[Devaishwarya]

That statement actually explains a lot.

[BroHomo]

Question of principle…

And Krakoa is a country not a private club.
They wanted UN recognition? There is a charter.

Makes me wonder why sooo many people supported the sexist dripping Wonder Woman movie....I meeeeean how many men live on Themyscira?? How many single family households it contains etc. Does DC not believe in taking an adequate census????!!

[houndsofluv]

"Xavier's Dream" lasted until Year Zero in PoX #6, when he met Moira and she broke him.
After that, in every X-Comic for the last sixty years, it's been fake BS that he gaslighted his students with.

wouldn't be the first time. or the second. or the third...

I doubt that the United States refuses you the Visa because you don't have the right color of skin. Or anything that is a part of your genotype, something that you are not responsible.

stats from here , chart from here

Refusal rate for travel visa applications, by country, in fiscal year 2018 (US)

Country Refusal Rate (%)
Somalia 90.2
Iran 87.7
Djibouti 83.0
Yemen 82.5
Syria 77.3
Guinea-Bissau 76.1
Burundi 74.4
Venezuela 74.3
Libya 73.7
Afghanistan 71.4
Burkina Faso 71.2
Guyana 70.6
Eritrea 69.5

these are the 14 countries w/ the highest percentages of travel visa refusals in the yr indicated, food for thought

[SiegePerilous02]

Makes me wonder why sooo many people supported the sexist dripping Wonder Woman movie....I meeeeean how many men live on Themyscira?? How many single family households it contains etc. Does DC not believe in taking an adequate census????!!

Lol everything about some of the responses to Krakoa reminds me of some of criticisms of the Amazons on Paradise Island.

The mentality that the Amazons must be horrible people for excluding men after their experiences drives me nuts, and I'm a man. Usually because it's cartoonish and sexist arguments that results in crap like Amazons Attack or the New 52 Amazons. It's the same here with the humans, who are literally running the show everywhere else on the globe aside from one spot that is still getting itself in order.

[Havok83]

Lol everything about some of the responses to Krakoa reminds me of some of criticisms of the Amazons on Paradise Island.

The mentality that the Amazons must be horrible people for excluding men after their experiences drives me nuts, and I'm a man. Usually because it's cartoonish and sexist arguments that results in crap like Amazons Attack or the New 52 Amazons. It's the same here with the humans, who are literally running the show everywhere else on the globe aside from one spot that is still getting itself in order.

Thats a great point. Krakoa doesnt even make up 0.01 percent of the Earth's population yet its a problem that humans arent fully included in that extremely small area

[Steel Inquisitor]

Thats a great point. Krakoa doesnt even make up 0.01 percent of the Earth's population yet its a problem that humans arent fully included in that extremely small area

Because immigration is good, and its not just humans, Krakoa is on Marvel Earth not ours. Not every human is dangerous or a bigot to mutants, but you wouldn't know it from this thread. If Moira had remained a human posters wouldn't want her on the island because they'd think she was a security risk for the crime of being human. Racism is not solely confined to ethnicity, but species in Marvel.