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  1. #361
    Extraordinary Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lapsus View Post
    That would be moral blind, every single crime that a mutant has made cannot be justified while every single crime comited by humans is considered a hate crime.


    Especially when the people who paid for those crimes has nothing to do with the original offense, besides, most mutants villains can hardly be considered victims.

    They do what they do because they want to achieve a particular goal, usually selfish.
    If that crime was against a mutant it could be. and I wasn't attempting to justify every single mutant villains actions Just calling attention to the fact that many of them are "evil" after encountering some evil Flatscan.
    GrindrStone(D)

  2. #362
    Mighty Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroHomo View Post
    If that crime was against a mutant it could be. and I wasn't attempting to justify every single mutant villains actions Just calling attention to the fact that many of them are "evil" after encountering some evil Flatscan.
    You mean after encountering a evil man or woman… is the fact that this triggering factor hasn't an X-gene that relevant? I haven't noticed any particular kindness or virtue associated with the X-gene.

    More, it isn't like that the triggering factor was acting in the name of all humans…
    After all, Magneto was acting in the name of all mutants but not all mutants were agreeing with him… at least not in the past.

  3. #363
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroHomo View Post
    If that crime was against a mutant it could be. and I wasn't attempting to justify every single mutant villains actions Just calling attention to the fact that many of them are "evil" after encountering some evil Flatscan.
    This falls flat when many mutants are less humane than humans are. Apocalypse, Sabretooth, Selene, Shaw are evil. I'd list Sinister but he's a mutate, a man who was a monster before he met Apocalypse.

  4. #364
    Astonishing Member Glio's Avatar
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    There are mutants that are monsters, there is no doubt about it.

    But if we are talking about the X-Men, the United States has more monsters in its government and much worse than those of Krakoa. At least they have improved.

  5. #365
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    This falls flat when many mutants are less humane than humans are. Apocalypse, Sabretooth, Selene, Shaw are evil. I'd list Sinister but he's a mutate, a man who was a monster before he met Apocalypse.
    Cameron Hodge, Graydon Creed, William Stryker various members of the Trask family, the Leper Queen, are just a few humans that are evil and less humane than most mutants. It goes both ways

  6. #366
    Astonishing Member Glio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Cameron Hodge, Graydon Creed, William Stryker various members of the Trask family, the Leper Queen, are just a few humans that are evil and less humane than most mutants. It goes both ways
    No, it's even worse than what you expose. We don't have to count only mutant-hating humans, there are SO MANY human supervillains.

    They also harm mutants. When Norman Osborn became the leader of HAMMER that severely affected the mutants.

  7. #367
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glio View Post
    No, it's even worse than what you expose. We don't have to count only mutant-hating humans, there are SO MANY human supervillains.

    They also harm mutants. When Norman Osborn became the leader of HAMMER that severely affected the mutants.
    You are right. I tried to stick with primarily X-characters but if you expand it outside this franchise, then yeah, the humans have some really sick individuals

  8. #368
    Extraordinary Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    You mean after encountering a evil man or woman… is the fact that this triggering factor hasn't an X-gene that relevant? I haven't noticed any particular kindness or virtue associated with the X-gene.

    More, it isn't like that the triggering factor was acting in the name of all humans…
    After all, Magneto was acting in the name of all mutants but not all mutants were agreeing with him… at least not in the past.
    Just saying 99% of mutant villains have a past were an unkindness shown by Flatscans deeply effected them. :/
    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    This falls flat when many mutants are less humane than humans are. Apocalypse, Sabretooth, Selene, Shaw are evil. I'd list Sinister but he's a mutate, a man who was a monster before he met Apocalypse.
    those mutants you named with he exception of Shaw all had Flatscans attempt to end their life before their 10th birthday
    GrindrStone(D)

  9. #369
    Mighty Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroHomo View Post
    Those mutants you named with he exception of Shaw all had Flatscans attempt to end their life before their 10th birthday
    The X-men have a tradition of taking in reformed villains.
    The idea that all villains can be reformed is wrong, whatever the reasons why they are this way… Xavier made this mistake in the past with Victor Creed.
    Seriously, would you hesitate and debate if a psychic vampire like Selene threatens your life and the lifes of people you love?

  10. #370
    Astonishing Member Glio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    The X-men have a tradition of taking in reformed villains.
    The idea that all villains can be reformed is wrong, whatever the reasons why they are this way… Xavier made this mistake in the past with Victor Creed.
    Seriously would you hesitate and debate if a psychic vampire like Selene threatens your life and the lifes of people you love?
    She can no longer threaten the life of any mutant.

    And if she tries, she will be banished. It would be more irresponsible to leave her outside Krakoa, where she could devote herself to killing humans who cannot resuscitate.

  11. #371
    Mighty Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glio View Post
    She can no longer threaten the life of any mutant.

    And if she tries, she will be banished. It would be more irresponsible to leave her outside Krakoa, where she could devote herself to killing humans who cannot resuscitate.
    I'm not talking about her current situation. People take decisions with the information they have.

    It's easy to blame 'the humans' when, as a reader, you possess all the information about a situation and you don't risk anything.

  12. #372
    Astonishing Member Glio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    I'm not talking about her current situation. People take decisions with the information they have.

    It's easy to blame 'the humans' when, as a reader, you possess all the information about a situation and you don't risk anything.
    The thing is that if we look at the numbers, there are more villains who have been permanently or semi-permanently reformed than have died so as not to be resurrected again (or another villain take their title) or have been locked up for a significant time.

    Locking them up doesn't work, killing them doesn't work. What's the solution?

  13. #373
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glio View Post
    She can no longer threaten the life of any mutant.

    And if she tries, she will be banished. It would be more irresponsible to leave her outside Krakoa, where she could devote herself to killing humans who cannot resuscitate.
    Same with Marius, same with Proteus, same with Sinister and Apocalypse. 'We're not locked in here with you. You're locked in here with US.'

    Out in the world, they'd be causing whatever troubles they normally cause, and both humans *and* mutants would be suffering for it. On Krakoa, they've got the eyes of all mutantkind on them, and people as powerful as Charles, Jean and Ororo to step in if they get out of line. (And Creed to serve as an example of what happens if they do. I wonder if he was given the rope he was given specifically to serve as an early example to the rest by someone a bit more pragmatic than Charles, say, Erik...)

    That all said, what Shaw has gotten away with so far seems to stomp all over the idea that Charles, Jean, Ororo, etc. are *any good at this* and would be even *notice* if someone like Selene snuck off the reservation and ate a bunch of peeps for old times sake.

    (Assuming that Shaw too is not being 'given enough rope' and Kitty's 'death' doesn't turn out to be a giant feint by Emma and Kate working together...)
    Last edited by Sutekh; 06-30-2020 at 12:05 PM.

  14. #374
    Astonishing Member Glio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    Same with Marius, same with Proteus, same with Sinister and Apocalypse. 'We're not locked in here with you. You're locked in here with US.'

    Out in the world, they'd be causing whatever troubles they normally cause, and both humans *and* mutants would be suffering for it. On Krakoa, they've got the eyes of all mutantkind on them, and people as powerful as Charles, Jean and Ororo to step in if they get out of line. (And Creed to serve as an example of what happens if they do. I wonder if he was given the rope he was given specifically to serve as an early example to the rest by someone a bit more pragmatic than Charles, say, Erik...)

    That all said, what Shaw has gotten away with so far seems to stomp all over the idea that Charles, Jean, Ororo, etc. are *any good at this* and would be even *notice* if someone like Selene snuck off the reservation and ate a bunch of peeps for old times sake.

    (Assuming that Shaw too is not being 'given enough rope' and Kitty's 'death' doesn't turn out to be a giant feint by Emma and Kate working together...)
    We cannot blame them for not being omniscient with Shaw. Sooner or later the truth will come to light, Lockheed is still alive.

    Also, it seems that Proteus is really rehabilitated and that his madness was caused by the burning of his bodies. Now he has unlimited bodies.
    They have managed to rehabilitate one of the most dangerous villains of the mutants thanks to Krakoa.

  15. #375
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    Sabretooth was most assuredly used as an example to the others...though I would argue an unintentional one after the fact. The QC did debate what they should ultimately do with him.

    TPoS has only gotten away with his machinations and killing Kate because the other X-Men are focused elsewhere on major threats off-island...they're not thinking that someone on the inside is actually moving heaven and earth to undermine theirs and Krakoa's future. An oversight, clearly...as with the attack from the Xeno in X-Force 01.
    We are MUTANT...One people. One tribe. One family...Krakoa, FOREVER!!!

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