What of Xavier's Dream?

[Glio]

Sorry double post

[Havok83]

The X-men have been around since 1963 and we've read decades worth of stories that have shown us that Xavier's Dream NEVER works. it hasnt since the 60s. Moira's past lives showed us that variations on that dream always fails as well. Its foolish tostill hold onto this dream and try to push it. Those holding on to this dream need to wake up to the fact that society sucks and as is the theme of this franchise, it needs to evolve and adapt to that

[houndsofluv]

as is the theme of this franchise, it needs to evolve and adapt to that

the clincher. ka-pow.

[Devaishwarya]

Truer words, Havok83...

[Zelena]

The X-men have been around since 1963 and we've read decades worth of stories that have shown us that Xavier's Dream NEVER works. it hasnt since the 60s. Moira's past lives showed us that variations on that dream always fails as well. Its foolish tostill hold onto this dream and try to push it. Those holding on to this dream need to wake up to the fact that society sucks and as is the theme of this franchise, it needs to evolve and adapt to that

I thought that the theme of the franchise was the X-men's heroism and courage: despite being feared, they were still protecting the world…

[Havok83]

I thought that the theme of the franchise was the X-men's heroism and courage: despite being feared, they were still protecting the world…

Evolution has been a core theme since the very beginning. The fear against them came from that evolution and the X-men's heroism was in spite of it. Mutant evolution is a throughline that has always persisted

[Kingdom X]

I thought that the theme of the franchise was the X-men's heroism and courage: despite being feared, they were still protecting the world…

Valid, but honestly the Krakoan drugs are probably saving more lives than the X-Men ever did.

[Micabe]

Why even bother? Mutants have their own self sustaining, exclusive sovereign nation -- mutants at this point have no need to coexist anymore.

[houndsofluv]

I thought that the theme of the franchise was the X-men's heroism and courage: despite being feared, they were still protecting the world…

Why even bother? Mutants have their own self sustaining, exclusive sovereign nation -- mutants at this point have no need to coexist anymore.

they still are protecting humans. They're sharing the resources necessary to cure fatal/previously incurable illnesses on a mass scale

you could argue that they're using this as leverage, and you'd be right, but this is only one aspect of the decision. Xavier himself has expressed that his ultimate goal is still coexistence , he's just seen from his and Moira's experience that they need to find a new way to coexist. This is that new way, for now.

its more nuanced than the archetypal Good vs. Evil but the stories have kind of eschewed this for ages anyways

[Micabe]

they still are protecting humans. They're sharing the resources necessary to cure fatal/previously incurable illnesses on a mass scale

you could argue that they're using this as leverage, and you'd be right, but this is only one aspect of the decision. Xavier himself has expressed that his ultimate goal is still coexistence , he's just seen from his and Moira's experience that they need to find a new way to coexist. This is that new way, for now.

its more nuanced than the archetypal Good vs. Evil but the stories have kind of eschewed this for ages anyways

Just wait until baseline humans become totally dependant on mutants for all their needs...

[Jack The Tripper]

I don't understand the discourse in this thread lol

The dream still lives, it's just a different approach to it. The dream is co-existence and for mutants to be recognised as people.

If I had dreams of becoming a Film Director and I was originally going to do so by making little indie films in my back garden and work my way up, only then to realise that it may be easier/more beneficial to study it academically instead, working my way up through the industry that way - Surely I would still be following my dream, just changing my method of achieving it?

The moral aspect can (and should) be debated as much as we like, but it doesn't change Xavier's dream imo.

P.S. Can we all remember that Xavier has, for quite a number of years now, been a manipulator and not exactly the best of influences. I think it's kind of natural for him to be this morally dubious since his death in AvX and onwards. Just my opinion of course.

[Grunty]

I don't understand the discourse in this thread lol

The dream still lives, it's just a different approach to it. The dream is co-existence and for mutants to be recognised as people.

(...)

The moral aspect can (and should) be debated as much as we like, but it doesn't change Xavier's dream imo.

The dream is dead, long live the dream.

What ever lies at the end of this current retcon induced cloth of a story placed on the x-men franchise's table, the foundation of said franchise is the idea of a group of super heros, connected by a shared origin of their powers, trying to make the world a better place for their kind and rest of humanity.

The "illusion of change" that is at the center of these long running permanently repeating super hero comics/universes, which won't allow anything but the real world to permanently alter the status quo of the "normal", means that said foundation is all that will endure from what ever experimental or unusual storypath a writer or team of writers will attempt to go.

Since the length of this overarching Dawn of X story is unknown to the readers, it's perhaps far too early to say how much it tries to divert from it's foundation or will actualy ultimately play into it.
Without a clear picture of the endgame this story is trying to achieve, the moral of it could go anywhere.

Maybe it will go for a full rejection of the dream, a debatable different interpretation of it or straight up reinforce it at the end. But it's likely years away to be revealed for good

Once the dust has settled however and a new writer or team will build something new again under the "illusion of change", it will once again be measured by what is the foundation of the X-men.
The will of helping their kind of humanity and the rest to co-exist, what ever enemies within or without they have to fight for it. (With big splash pages of action, personal drama and the occasional twists and turns in storylines).

[numberthirty]

I thought that the theme of the franchise was the X-men's heroism and courage: despite being feared, they were still protecting the world…

When, exactly, did they stop?

They literally just stopped a potential Brood invasion cold that obviously would have spilled out across the entire planet.

[People Of The Earth]

When, exactly, did they stop?

They literally just stopped a potential Brood invasion cold that obviously would have spilled out across the entire planet.

They literally caused that Brood invasion to begin with, that's them cleaning up their own mess. "I put out the fire I started" is not a proper way to "protect the world".

[numberthirty]

They literally caused that Brood invasion to begin with, that's them cleaning up their own mess. "I put out the fire I started" is not a proper way to "protect the world".

Lemme see if I have this straight...

The only way that mutants would be doing a "Proper..." job of protecting Earth would be either...

- Saving Humanity From Dumb Fights It Has Started...

or

- Saving Humanity From Random 'Worldbreaker"-Level Threats...

Seriously?