What of Xavier's Dream?

[BroHomo]

That would be moral blind, every single crime that a mutant has made cannot be justified while every single crime comited by humans is considered a hate crime.


Especially when the people who paid for those crimes has nothing to do with the original offense, besides, most mutants villains can hardly be considered victims.

They do what they do because they want to achieve a particular goal, usually selfish.

If that crime was against a mutant it could be. and I wasn't attempting to justify every single mutant villains actions Just calling attention to the fact that many of them are "evil" after encountering some evil Flatscan.

[Zelena]

If that crime was against a mutant it could be. and I wasn't attempting to justify every single mutant villains actions Just calling attention to the fact that many of them are "evil" after encountering some evil Flatscan.

You mean after encountering a evil man or woman… is the fact that this triggering factor hasn't an X-gene that relevant? I haven't noticed any particular kindness or virtue associated with the X-gene.

More, it isn't like that the triggering factor was acting in the name of all humans…
After all, Magneto was acting in the name of all mutants but not all mutants were agreeing with him… at least not in the past.

[Steel Inquisitor]

If that crime was against a mutant it could be. and I wasn't attempting to justify every single mutant villains actions Just calling attention to the fact that many of them are "evil" after encountering some evil Flatscan.

This falls flat when many mutants are less humane than humans are. Apocalypse, Sabretooth, Selene, Shaw are evil. I'd list Sinister but he's a mutate, a man who was a monster before he met Apocalypse.

[Glio]

There are mutants that are monsters, there is no doubt about it.

But if we are talking about the X-Men, the United States has more monsters in its government and much worse than those of Krakoa. At least they have improved.

[Havok83]

This falls flat when many mutants are less humane than humans are. Apocalypse, Sabretooth, Selene, Shaw are evil. I'd list Sinister but he's a mutate, a man who was a monster before he met Apocalypse.

Cameron Hodge, Graydon Creed, William Stryker various members of the Trask family, the Leper Queen, are just a few humans that are evil and less humane than most mutants. It goes both ways

[Glio]

Cameron Hodge, Graydon Creed, William Stryker various members of the Trask family, the Leper Queen, are just a few humans that are evil and less humane than most mutants. It goes both ways

No, it's even worse than what you expose. We don't have to count only mutant-hating humans, there are SO MANY human supervillains.

They also harm mutants. When Norman Osborn became the leader of HAMMER that severely affected the mutants.

[Havok83]

No, it's even worse than what you expose. We don't have to count only mutant-hating humans, there are SO MANY human supervillains.

They also harm mutants. When Norman Osborn became the leader of HAMMER that severely affected the mutants.

You are right. I tried to stick with primarily X-characters but if you expand it outside this franchise, then yeah, the humans have some really sick individuals

[BroHomo]

You mean after encountering a evil man or woman… is the fact that this triggering factor hasn't an X-gene that relevant? I haven't noticed any particular kindness or virtue associated with the X-gene.

More, it isn't like that the triggering factor was acting in the name of all humans…
After all, Magneto was acting in the name of all mutants but not all mutants were agreeing with him… at least not in the past.

Just saying 99% of mutant villains have a past were an unkindness shown by Flatscans deeply effected them. :/

This falls flat when many mutants are less humane than humans are. Apocalypse, Sabretooth, Selene, Shaw are evil. I'd list Sinister but he's a mutate, a man who was a monster before he met Apocalypse.

those mutants you named with he exception of Shaw all had Flatscans attempt to end their life before their 10th birthday

[Zelena]

Those mutants you named with he exception of Shaw all had Flatscans attempt to end their life before their 10th birthday

The X-men have a tradition of taking in reformed villains.
The idea that all villains can be reformed is wrong, whatever the reasons why they are this way… Xavier made this mistake in the past with Victor Creed.
Seriously, would you hesitate and debate if a psychic vampire like Selene threatens your life and the lifes of people you love?

[Glio]

The X-men have a tradition of taking in reformed villains.
The idea that all villains can be reformed is wrong, whatever the reasons why they are this way… Xavier made this mistake in the past with Victor Creed.
Seriously would you hesitate and debate if a psychic vampire like Selene threatens your life and the lifes of people you love?

She can no longer threaten the life of any mutant.

And if she tries, she will be banished. It would be more irresponsible to leave her outside Krakoa, where she could devote herself to killing humans who cannot resuscitate.

[Zelena]

She can no longer threaten the life of any mutant.

And if she tries, she will be banished. It would be more irresponsible to leave her outside Krakoa, where she could devote herself to killing humans who cannot resuscitate.

I'm not talking about her current situation. People take decisions with the information they have.

It's easy to blame 'the humans' when, as a reader, you possess all the information about a situation and you don't risk anything.

[Glio]

I'm not talking about her current situation. People take decisions with the information they have.

It's easy to blame 'the humans' when, as a reader, you possess all the information about a situation and you don't risk anything.

The thing is that if we look at the numbers, there are more villains who have been permanently or semi-permanently reformed than have died so as not to be resurrected again (or another villain take their title) or have been locked up for a significant time.

Locking them up doesn't work, killing them doesn't work. What's the solution?

[Sutekh]

She can no longer threaten the life of any mutant.

And if she tries, she will be banished. It would be more irresponsible to leave her outside Krakoa, where she could devote herself to killing humans who cannot resuscitate.

Same with Marius, same with Proteus, same with Sinister and Apocalypse. 'We're not locked in here with you. You're locked in here with US.'

Out in the world, they'd be causing whatever troubles they normally cause, and both humans *and* mutants would be suffering for it. On Krakoa, they've got the eyes of all mutantkind on them, and people as powerful as Charles, Jean and Ororo to step in if they get out of line. (And Creed to serve as an example of what happens if they do. I wonder if he was given the rope he was given specifically to serve as an early example to the rest by someone a bit more pragmatic than Charles, say, Erik...)

That all said, what Shaw has gotten away with so far seems to stomp all over the idea that Charles, Jean, Ororo, etc. are *any good at this* and would be even *notice* if someone like Selene snuck off the reservation and ate a bunch of peeps for old times sake.

(Assuming that Shaw too is not being 'given enough rope' and Kitty's 'death' doesn't turn out to be a giant feint by Emma and Kate working together...)

[Glio]

Same with Marius, same with Proteus, same with Sinister and Apocalypse. 'We're not locked in here with you. You're locked in here with US.'

Out in the world, they'd be causing whatever troubles they normally cause, and both humans *and* mutants would be suffering for it. On Krakoa, they've got the eyes of all mutantkind on them, and people as powerful as Charles, Jean and Ororo to step in if they get out of line. (And Creed to serve as an example of what happens if they do. I wonder if he was given the rope he was given specifically to serve as an early example to the rest by someone a bit more pragmatic than Charles, say, Erik...)

That all said, what Shaw has gotten away with so far seems to stomp all over the idea that Charles, Jean, Ororo, etc. are *any good at this* and would be even *notice* if someone like Selene snuck off the reservation and ate a bunch of peeps for old times sake.

(Assuming that Shaw too is not being 'given enough rope' and Kitty's 'death' doesn't turn out to be a giant feint by Emma and Kate working together...)

We cannot blame them for not being omniscient with Shaw. Sooner or later the truth will come to light, Lockheed is still alive.

Also, it seems that Proteus is really rehabilitated and that his madness was caused by the burning of his bodies. Now he has unlimited bodies.
They have managed to rehabilitate one of the most dangerous villains of the mutants thanks to Krakoa.

[Devaishwarya]

Sabretooth was most assuredly used as an example to the others...though I would argue an unintentional one after the fact. The QC did debate what they should ultimately do with him.

TPoS has only gotten away with his machinations and killing Kate because the other X-Men are focused elsewhere on major threats off-island...they're not thinking that someone on the inside is actually moving heaven and earth to undermine theirs and Krakoa's future. An oversight, clearly...as with the attack from the Xeno in X-Force 01.