What of Xavier's Dream?

[Havok83]

James Rhodes sometimes wore the armor when they needed to convince someone who was suspicious.

Iron Man's suit could also pilot itself so his ruse was easier to pull off

[Devaishwarya]

Why couldn't Xavier been seen simply as a mutant supporter? It's not as though he had a distinct mutant physiology. He could very well pass as human. You don't have to be LGBTQ to be supportive of LGBTQ.

[Glio]

Why couldn't Xavier been seen simply as a mutant supporter? It's not as though he had a distinct mutant physiology. He could very well pass as human. You don't have to be LGBTQ to be supportive of LGBTQ.

That is exactly what Xavier looked like in the eyes of the world.

That is why his posture was hypocritical to me. It's easy to advocate for patience and avoid drastic action when you can hide who you are.

Mutants like Beast, Nightcrawler or even Cyclops and Rogue did not have it so easy.

[Zelena]

That is exactly what Xavier looked like in the eyes of the world.

That is why his posture was hypocritical to me. It's easy to advocate for patience and avoid drastic action when you can hide who you are.

Mutants like Beast, Nightcrawler or even Cyclops and Rogue did not have it so easy.

He wanted for all mutants what he had for himself: acceptance.
But was it based on lies and hypocrisy or just the fact that when you're a telepath, you don't naturally broadcoast it cause it never does good to your social life and you don't want be defined by it. A good telepath is a telepath who restrains himself and downplays his natural tendancies. Xavier has developped other talents than being just a telepath.

But I agree that his dream was based on his experience which is limited.
Maybe hadn't he enough listened to his students…

[marhawkman]

He wanted for all mutants what he had for himself: acceptance.
But was it based on lies and hypocrisy or just the fact that when you're a telepath, you don't naturally broadcoast it cause it never does good to your social life and you don't want be defined by it. A good telepath is a telepath who restrains himself and downplays his natural tendancies. Xavier has developped other talents than being just a telepath.

But I agree that his dream was based on his experience which is limited.
Maybe hadn't he enough listened to his students…

I find it rather telling that 3 of the groups the Xmen fight have a similar goal but not he same methods.

Also image inducers. The X-men use them to pass for normal.

[Alan2099]

Of course, there were more than a few moments where Xavier was hated, protested, and attacked right along side of the mutants, even if they didn't think he was one.

[Glio]

Of course, there were more than a few moments where Xavier was hated, protested, and attacked right along side of the mutants, even if they didn't think he was one.

Even in those cases, he and his X-Men had privileges that other mutants like the Morlocks did not.

They had a mansion, space technology, image inducers, the vast majority have powers that allow them to defend themselves ... For them patience was easy and comfortable.

Magneto in a way being his ideological opposite also always spoke from a privileged position. "Let's go mutants, let's go to war against humans!" it's easy to say when you're an omega mutant with the power of magnetism, harder when your only "power" is having green skin and a pair of horns.

So neither Magneto nor Xavier's posture was correct, as Moira learned throughout her lives.

[marhawkman]

Even in those cases, he and his X-Men had privileges that other mutants like the Morlocks did not.

They had a mansion, space technology, image inducers, the vast majority have powers that allow them to defend themselves ... For them patience was easy and comfortable.

Magneto in a way being his ideological opposite also always spoke from a privileged position. "Let's go mutants, let's go to war against humans!" it's easy to say when you're an omega mutant with the power of magnetism, harder when your only "power" is having green skin and a pair of horns.

So neither Magneto nor Xavier's posture was correct, as Moira learned throughout her lives.

As a counterpoint we had SKull Mesa in TAS, and it kinda worked... except that the mayor was Solarr.

[The tall man]

Even in those cases, he and his X-Men had privileges that other mutants like the Morlocks did not.

They had a mansion, space technology, image inducers, the vast majority have powers that allow them to defend themselves ... For them patience was easy and comfortable.

Magneto in a way being his ideological opposite also always spoke from a privileged position. "Let's go mutants, let's go to war against humans!" it's easy to say when you're an omega mutant with the power of magnetism, harder when your only "power" is having green skin and a pair of horns.

So neither Magneto nor Xavier's posture was correct, as Moira learned throughout her lives.

No mutant has the correct posture, answers or vision for mutants. Not Xavier, Magneto, Apocalypse, Cyclops, Emma or Moira herself. And no one mutant can speak for all. They can try and convince some to buy into their philosophy and follow them, and maybe some paths will be more successful than others in the short or longterm but no one can say. Xavier is not perfect and never claimed to be, he did his best for mutants, he did then and he's doing so now. He isn't looking for praise and he will get criticism; some deserved but a lot unwarranted. And l don't think he will ever give up on his dream despite all Moira's manipulations. It's funny that even knowing what we know now about Moira and her past lives and all her manipulations both subtle and overt. And that from the very beginning she was shaping and molding events of her design it's Xavier that gets all the criticism and blame, while Moira is seen as unsung hero/savior of mutants. After all didn't Moira "break him" to make him more easily controlled, yet he's the bad guy and she's the hero despite her having a hand in everything right from the beginning. I guess it's just some's lot in life to be the fall guy. I will always see Xavier as a hero, a flawed person to be sure but a hero nonetheless.

[Steel Inquisitor]

Even in those cases, he and his X-Men had privileges that other mutants like the Morlocks did not.

They had a mansion, space technology, image inducers, the vast majority have powers that allow them to defend themselves ... For them patience was easy and comfortable.

Magneto in a way being his ideological opposite also always spoke from a privileged position. "Let's go mutants, let's go to war against humans!" it's easy to say when you're an omega mutant with the power of magnetism, harder when your only "power" is having green skin and a pair of horns.

So neither Magneto nor Xavier's posture was correct, as Moira learned throughout her lives.

Leaders in movements are never those in poverty or uneducated, they have major backing to get their opinions heard - that is why mutants like Magneto and Xavier are listened to and it's not just them. Every person in the Quiet Council has had those sort of privileges and being on the Council itself is a privilege in itself. They're not voted in, they're asked.

The Morlocks staying in poverty was also their decision, they could have joined the X-men but chose not to. But privilege by itself is not how to judge a person's opinions as correct, it's just privilege. In Xaviers vision they'd be accepted in society as equals, in Magneto's they'd be lords, in Apocalypse's that'd mostly be dead because not all fo them will survive his "tests" and he won't care for their loss.

[Glio]

Methods matter. And Xavier wanted a dream without bothering to get his hands dirty for it because he was in no rush to get it.

Xavier had good intentions but his passivity was a failure for the mutants and it was born from his privilege.

[Steel Inquisitor]

Methods matter. And Xavier wanted a dream without bothering to get his hands dirty for it because he was in no rush to get it.

Xavier had good intentions but his passivity was a failure for the mutants and it was born from his privilege.

Xavier trained a group of mutant super-heroes, which blossomed into an ever growing roster and several spin-off groups, to help protect mutant kind and humanity in an effort to bring peace. It was more than his mutant rivals did. And he's done underhanded activities in the process to preserve this.

It was a failure because it's comic book about attractive people wearing spandex and hitting each other. They're not going to solve world peace in those pages.

Given the reaction you have to classic Xavier why don't you hate the current one like this?

[Glio]

Xavier trained a group of mutant super-heroes, which blossomed into an ever growing roster and several spin-off groups, to help protect mutant kind and humanity in an effort to bring peace. It was more than his mutant rivals did. And he's done underhanded activities in the process to preserve this.

It was a failure because it's comic book about attractive people wearing spandex and hitting each other. They're not going to solve world peace in those pages.

Given the reaction you have to classic Xavier why don't you hate the current one like this?

The current Xavier is a jerk but at least he is a jerk who has dramatically improved the quality of life for mutants.

And in fact, he has also dramatically improved the quality of life for humans.

[Devaishwarya]

He was openly fighting for ALL Mutants to be accepted the normal looking ones and the ones who were physically different. ...how is that hypocritical?
He was at the forefront speaking up and speaking out, putting himself at risk and nearly paid the ultimate price for doing so.
Are you saying that because he "could pass for human" he shouldn't be advocating for Mutant Rights?
It could be argued that because he was known to be an expert on the Science of Mutation he was using his position to reach a greater audience who might be more inclined listen and understand.
If Beast or Nightcrawler we're the "Faces" of mutant kind it would have been more difficult to reach the public at the time.

I'm not say as written by Claremont, Xavier's methods were perfect...in fact, in the face of what transpired in Morrison's NXM, it was flawed, but to say he was hypocritical in his actions and motives...no. That's not how he was being written.

[Sutekh]

It was a failure because it's comic book about attractive people wearing spandex and hitting each other. They're not going to solve world peace in those pages.

Yeah, it's hard to judge Xavier's dream on the 'merits' of what happened, since, what happened, is it's serial property without end that has to continue every month till the end of time. No vision, no matter how 'right' or 'wrong' is allowed to move the needle towards a happy future of mutants and humans singing kumbaya together, because the story of oppressed mutants fighting for a world that hates and fears them (or, as in this day, fighting to get away from a world that hates and fears them and make their own way, to hell with everybody else) has got to continue next month.

They're not allowed to win. And, barring some events like Age of Apocalyse or House of M, which will be undone a few months later, they won't.

And that doesn't invalidate Xavier's dream, that it can't ever be achieved, because the writers don't want to abandon that story source and transition to the sort of model that the Avengers and Fantastic Four use, of standard superhero fare.