Is the current portrayal legitimate or will there be a twist to explain it?

[Kisinith]

I think that you mean Iceman. Kurt wasn't here....or was he *Twilight Zone theme plays*

Yes, sorry I did mean Iceman there. I was actually thinking Iceman but somehow ended up typing Nightcrawler. Point still stands though.

[TheCape]

Yes, sorry I did mean Iceman there. I was actually thinking Iceman but somehow ended up typing Nightcrawler. Point still stands though.

Oh i wasn't trying to argue with you. You were just an easy target for my bad joke

[Maestroneto]

I don't think that anyone is considering her worse than him. Is just that people had different expectations for different characters. Being a killer has been a thing with him since day one, but the same case doesn't apply with Kitty. This direction isn't impossible, of course, is believable that she could potentially turn more violent or harsh with time, but it isn't going to be automatically accepted for X-Fans.

Maybe those people should read more comics before they complain then.

[TheCape]

Maybe those people should read more comics before they complain then.

Even if they do, they aren't necessarily going accept it, people had different ideas of what the future directions of certain characters should be, or because in their opinion the stories were just horrible. No one is going to agreed to what she should be. More or less running in the same problems that her character type have

[LordUltimus]

I'm wondering if discussion around Kitty should be put in it's own thread and keep this about the X-Men in general.

[Londo Bellian]

It is the year 2054. Jonathan Hickman has been dead for thirty years, torn apart at NYCC by a mob of irate Jean Grey fans. Krakoa-era X-Men has not been retconned or "explained" in any substantial way. People still insist that it is just an AU.

Plenty dark and straddles the line that got me a tempo ban, but I'm curious: in your alternate future history POD, does that imply the Krakoa saga would carry on even if Hix is gone or it just stopped and rebooted the X-Line?

[spirit2011]

So now we're condemning them for things that could have happened? She wasn't being careless, she was obviously using non-lethal measures (unlike the Russian soldiers) and while they weren't a threat to her they were to Storm, Nightcrawler and all the illegally detained slaves who were being rounded up for slave labor under the worst of conditions. They were using lethal force against civilians, against her family, and they were acting in support of the worst of humanity. Boo-hoo.

They couldn't kill Kitty. This is the point, then Kitty went and maimed them. Desproportional forces

[PsychoEFrost]

They couldn't kill Kitty. This is the point, then Kitty went and maimed them. Desproportional forces

She goes solid at the wrong moment, and she's dead.

[spirit2011]

That would be too bad in case they weren't, you know, trying to round up mutants for workcamp prisons of death.

I guess they needed to be on a white corset and have blond hair for you to realize they were doing some bad ****.

When I said they weren't the baddies?

She goes solid at the wrong moment, and she's dead.

Dangers of living.

[PsychoEFrost]

When I said they weren't the baddies?



Dangers of living.

So you blame Kitty, but not the soldiers?

[Kisinith]

They couldn't kill Kitty. This is the point, then Kitty went and maimed them. Desproportional forces

Kitty wasn't the only person there.

When I said they weren't the baddies?

Dangers of living.

You didn't, but you do seem to think that the slave-running, murderers (probable, not-proven but they were using live rounds on unarmed civilians) needed to be handled with kid gloves.

[Punch Dimension.]

When I said they weren't the baddies?



Dangers of living.

Are you that butthurt about Jean that you're now pro fascist goon? Lol.

[People Of The Earth]

Personally I think it all depends on whether or not the souls are present in the people who are regrown and all that. We know souls exist in the Marvel Universe and they are what make each person unique from a clone as evidenced with Ben Reilly having his own soul. If these characters are merely clones, then it would suck. Though the way everybody is acting in this new iteration does leave the possibility that all is not what it seems and hopefully those details will be uncovered soon.

The bodies are grown and "fertilized" artificially by other mutants.
The mind are copies of previous versions of the characters stored digitally - by Hickman's own words.
For all intent and purpose, they ARE copies.
CLONES.
Regardless of how they perceive themselves in-universe or how we, as readers, are supposed to perceive them IRL.
Did Hickman make this "blunder" on purpose? Who knows.
But they factually are clones. Undeniably.

It is obvious that the X-Men are not acting like themselves. They are all cold and more supremacist than ever. They are pretty much all villains under this new regime. Though I find it hard to believe that Hickman would willfully turn them into villains with no twist or plan. We know it all changed when the Moira influenced Charles but I am surprised that we haven’t seen any more of a development in that.

The fact they renounced Xavier's dream in such a spectacular fashion is a betrayal of the core principals that makes the X-Men... well, them.
Peaceful coexistence.
Inclusiveness.
To show the world a better path than hate and fear.
They are X-Men in name only right now, save for those - yet to be shown on-panel mind you - who will question this abandonment of their mission.
All in all, it doesn't make villains to walk down that path, but it hardly makes them X-Men either. They should rebrand themselves the Acolytes and be done with it.

Do you think there is a conspiracy here? If there is indeed then what do you think is making them act like this? Mind control or these aren’t the real characters? Is Krakoa making the X-Men act like this? Or is it somebody else under that helmet?

Well, the moment Charles Xavier, Erik Lansherr and Moira Mactaggart decided that THEY and only THEY had the right to hold all the cards, stewarding the destiny of mutantkind all by themselves, the conspiracy was born.
Those three are the ones behind it, by their manipulations, lies, and overall secrecy.
I Don't think mind-control is at play here, though we know Xavier is not above tempering the mind of others, but deception? Absolutely. It's a powerful instrument.

[loke13]

The bodies are grown and "fertilized" artificially by other mutants.
The mind are copies of previous versions of the characters stored digitally - by Hickman's own words.
For all intent and purpose, they ARE copies.
CLONES.
Regardless of how they perceive themselves in-universe or how we, as readers, are supposed to perceive them IRL.
Did Hickman make this "blunder" on purpose? Who knows.
But they factually are clones. Undeniably.



The fact they renounced Xavier's dream in such a spectacular fashion is a betrayal of the core principals that makes the X-Men... well, them.
Peaceful coexistence.
Inclusiveness.
To show the world a better path than hate and fear.
They are X-Men in name only right now, save for those - yet to be shown on-panel mind you - who will question this abandonment of their mission.
All in all, it doesn't make villains to walk down that path, but it hardly makes them X-Men either. They should rebrand themselves the Acolytes and be done with it.



Well, the moment Charles Xavier, Erik Lansherr and Moira Mactaggart decided that THEY and only THEY had the right to hold all the cards, stewarding the destiny of mutantkind all by themselves, the conspiracy was born.
Those three are the ones behind it, by their manipulations, lies, and overall secrecy.
I Don't think mind-control is at play here, though we know Xavier is not above tempering the mind of others, but deception? Absolutely. It's a powerful instrument.

I like this post. I disagree with it but it's well thought out and exactly the type of conversation that HoX/PoX and the subsequent books should be stimulating.

[Londo Bellian]

Hooray for Hickman.