Is the current portrayal legitimate or will there be a twist to explain it?

[Confuzzled]

I have to say watching peoples not so subtle prejudices emerge via the minority metaphor since HOX has been..fun. Watching these people also be completely unaware as to why their views are prejudice has been frustrating.

I guess some people are just here for the shipping wars after all.

Some of these reactions to HoX/PoX have been the best part about it.

[Confuzzled]

You know, we can go around and around for another 14 pages and push poll each other, and everyone's going to keep having the same POVs. Here's the bottom line:

- The X-Men are a sociopolitical allegory for a variety of minority struggles.
- Politics for these oppressed groups - and the conditions they face - have changed dramatically since the '80s and '90s. Sometimes for good, lately for ill. The old turn the other cheek method has ceased to be effective or rational. So the attitude in the X-Men - who face a supercharged, fantastical world which often seeks to massacre them - has also changed.

But nobody here is advocating for going out and assaulting your fellow heterosexual or cis or white citizen at random. Nor is that what the current X-books are doing with fictional humanity, including with Kitty Pryde using brutal but non-lethal force against Russian slavers, or with Xavier offering forceful economic trade terms or asking to allow his people to have their own private nation-state.

It is supposed to be controversial. It is supposed to unsettle people and fuel debate. But IMO we don't need to quote old pages we've all read from 30-40 or however many years ago. The fact is times have changed and struggles have intensified, not just for mutants but for real people. Asking why certain folks on this forum who identify with the X-Men might not be so keen on the old "just coexist with the humans and stay in Westchester playing baseball" status quo from 1983 anymore seems to be kind of missing the pulse of the world both we and the X-Men face. I'd just ask folks to consider that.

Louder for the people at the back.

[WallStreeter]

The problem is thematically the XMen were stuck in the past. Having the X-Men secretly stay in a school worked when they were few mutants, and when you just had a few X-Men. As the X-Men grew in numbers and became more powerful, the fantastic world they lived it didn't just fit with them living in a school. Living in NYC didn't fit either. Outside of Krakoa, they would have needed the Savage Land or some other fantastic place. Ship could have been a good base for them.

It's like the Eternals base is Olympia or the Asgardian base is Asgard (when it's destroyed they still have their own base on Earth).

[KurtW95]

Though mutants are not their own race of people that stem from other dimensions. They are simply humans with a natural mutation. It isn’t staying in the past to want to want coexistence between mutants and normal humans. It is the preface of the discrimination angle and giving up on that and going for separatism with a supremacist mindset is disgusting. It isn’t that villains have joined the X-Men because they reformed. Rather the X-Men joined the villains because they have turned evil.

[powerpax]

Though mutants are not their own race of people that stem from other dimensions. They are simply humans with a natural mutation.

Not according to humanity or the marvel universe.

It isn’t staying in the past to want to want coexistence between mutants and normal humans.

It is when coexistence is defined solely by the same narrow status quo of the last 50 years.

Mutants are still coexisting with humans on earth. They still interact with them. They have friends. Trade. Homes and relationships and lives outside Krakoa, as Storm articulated in HOX #5. They simply now have their own nation and non-homo sapiens facing priorities. Like any other race on earth. What is wrong with that? Why is that disgusting?

It isn’t that villains have joined the X-Men because they reformed. Rather the X-Men joined the villains because they have turned evil.

What did they do in HOX that was evil?

[pkingdom]

Right now they're attitude is less outright evil and more "Screw you guys, we're making our own home!" which is a sentiment I can understand. Its when you factor in all the "We are inevitable. We will replace you." stuff that things get creepy. Magneto's god complex speeches aren't helping

That kind of sentiment has made for some decent sci fi stories. What if there were a place where everyone was gay and nobody else was allowed? I've seen/read/thought that before. But as the answer for a long running series like X-men, it kind of feels like they're just giving up. Its not really a satisfying ending. 30 years of stories just to declare it was all pointless. Optimism and faith in humanity is for kids! Is the lesson supposed to be "everyone is a bastard to people different then themselves, so everyone should just stick to their own race/culture/whatever and stay out of each others' way". I know the world is pretty awful right now, but really?

There's also the aspect where real-world minorities can actually make improvements. Things still suck for non straight white dudes, but its still much better than things were 100 years ago. In the fictional MU, mutants haven't been allowed to progress things because of writers and editors not letting them.

Is it really fair to accuse people of prejudice for not liking this story? You aren't the first person I've seen say something like that.

[powerpax]

Right now they're attitude is less outright evil and more "Screw you guys, we're making our own home!" which is a sentiment I can understand. Its when you factor in all the "We are inevitable. We will replace you." stuff that things get creepy.

The mutants have espoused that belief for decades. They discussed it openly as a fact of life even during the pablum '90s. It's only when they lean into being candid about it and unapologetic in the face of their slaughter and genocide that suddenly people are outraged.

What if there were a place where everyone was gay and nobody else was allowed?

You mean like the Anvil? LOL

I've seen/read/thought that before. But as the answer for a long running series like X-men, it kind of feels like they're just giving up. Its not really a satisfying ending. 30 years of stories just to declare it was all pointless. Optimism and faith in humanity is for kids!

Why is the optimum goal faith in humanity? The book is called "X-Men", surviving in a world that hates and fears them. This is that. What about optimism and faith in mutants?

Is it really fair to accuse people of prejudice for not liking this story? You aren't the first person I've seen say something like that.

I don't think people here mean any harm. I do think there's a ton of tone-deaf posts from people who are deeply and profoundly uncomfortable with the idea of the mutant/minority rights metaphor moving beyond the apologetic and static humans/str8s/white people-facing-first tone of the '60s, '70s, '80s and '90s. The world has changed.

[KurtW95]

No coincidence that those decades you mentioned were when the X-Men were good. Morrison started the path for them to become villains and here we are today with hardly any good stories from the past two decades and they act like villains. It is also frankly disgusting to imply that fighting for coexistence is fake and white presented when those were the only methods that got anywhere in the real world civil rights movement. Though I suppose we have a lot of people here who would rather hate in isolation than push for a united understanding of peace and amiability.

[powerpax]

No coincidence that those decades you mentioned were when the X-Men were good.

If you say so. AFAIC the 90s sucked, and yes I grew up with them.

It is also frankly disgusting to imply that fighting for coexistence is fake and white presented when those were the only methods that got anywhere in the real world civil rights movement. Though I suppose we have a lot of people here who would rather hate in isolation than push for a united understanding of peace and amiability.

Not at all what I said. Why are you so angry? And again, what did they do in HOX that makes them villains?

If you dislike Morrison, that’s your prerogative. If you hate the current direction that is your prerogative. But don’t ask an OP question if you only want and accept one answer.

[Strong Girl Daken]

No coincidence that those decades you mentioned were when the X-Men were good. Morrison started the path for them to become villains and here we are today with hardly any good stories from the past two decades and they act like villains. It is also frankly disgusting to imply that fighting for coexistence is fake and white presented when those were the only methods that got anywhere in the real world civil rights movement. Though I suppose we have a lot of people here who would rather hate in isolation than push for a united understanding of peace and amiability.

You mean the civil rights gains that got rolled back with Reagan? And mutants need to exist in order to coexist with humans so finally they've figured out they have the right to do so.

[Killerbee911]

It is also frankly disgusting to imply that fighting for coexistence is fake and white presented when those were the only methods that got anywhere in the real world civil rights movement. Though I suppose we have a lot of people here who would rather hate in isolation than push for a united understanding of peace and amiability.

The problem is you think the X-men is fighting for Civil rights and you absolutely right it would be disgusting to give up fighting for Civil Rights but they aren't fighting for Civil Rights they are fighting for survival from being wipe out like someone in Darfur,Syria or Myanmar is doing today. You know what people do when larger population is looking to kill them? They run away and find another place to live. There is a difference between civil rights movement that is when you go "hey these people are attacking us" your government goes "that is wrong we are going to try to protect you" they kinda do crap job of protecting you but you don't end up in mass graves and when you are fighting against Genocide you go "hey these people are attack us" and your government goes "we are those people". Coexistence is not a possibility when people have tried to consistently wipe you out. And Humans have tried to wipe out mutants most recently as Rosenberg Uncanny book the cure was forced genocide attempt on the mutant race/species/people. The one of most liberal country in the world has official government operations to hunt down mutants with Sentinels(the machines that committed genocide on 16 million of your people), and at the same time Purifiers and Reavers were allowed or feel comfortable to hunt mutants. If mutants aren't safe in the United states on some level then they are screwed pretty much everywhere else.

Krakoa viewed as paradise mutants but Krakoa is also gigantic refugee camp. I wish Krakoa storyline didn't have the scifi elements so people would focus on why mutants from all around the world are picking to live Krakoa instead staying in their home country. Y'all are here talking about giving up on dream while Humans are building very same death machine that killed 16 million of you. This isn't Civil rights story.

[LordUltimus]

The mutants have espoused that belief for decades. They discussed it openly as a fact of life even during the pablum '90s. It's only when they lean into being candid about it and unapologetic in the face of their slaughter and genocide that suddenly people are outraged.

It's been pretty inconsistent how the good guys actually view themselves as "We are inevitable and will replace you". It was usually something that villains used, either humans to justify their paranoia or mutants to justify their self-importance. Having good guys say "We're objectively superior to you because of our genetics!" is something that has problems, given eugenics in the real world.

Why is the optimum goal faith in humanity? The book is called "X-Men", surviving in a world that hates and fears them. This is that. What about optimism and faith in mutants?

Why not both? It's not as if the X-Men have no humanity.

I don't think people here mean any harm. I do think there's a ton of tone-deaf posts from people who are deeply and profoundly uncomfortable with the idea of the mutant/minority rights metaphor moving beyond the apologetic and static humans/str8s/white people-facing-first tone of the '60s, '70s, '80s and '90s. The world has changed.

How so? If anything, things were in more dire straits in the past.

[LordUltimus]

Also, I doubt any real-life minorities are unsettled by the X-Men's current stance.

Real-life minorities don't pay attention to superhero comics.

[powerpax]

Real-life minorities don't pay attention to superhero comics.

You’re talking to a lot of them right now.

[powerpax]

It's been pretty inconsistent how the good guys actually view themselves as "We are inevitable and will replace you". It was usually something that villains used, either humans to justify their paranoia or mutants to justify their self-importance.

It was also a fact the X-Men used to constantly apologize for, inbetween being slaughtered by humans and robots built by humans.

Why not both? It's not as if the X-Men have no humanity.

But why must their pride, their survival and their actualization as a species with its own home, infrastructure etc come second to sympathizing with human needs?

How so? If anything, things were in more dire straits in the past.

Lol. Uh, I think that really depends on who you are and where you live, my dude. I personally am happy my grandparents didn’t live to see the return of casual antisemitism or their neighborhood synagogue shot up, and as a gay man I am not thrilled with seeing my rights start to continue to be pushed back on by a predatory government. But YMMV. And my issues or conditions aren’t a fraction as harsh as some other folks who I’m sure post here as well.