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  1. #31
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    I think that you are supposed to see then in a grey light. The X-Men hadn't been acting like villains, even if the language seems to be more agressive (understandable considering the circumstances), but there is definetly something off about Krakoa and letting all the villains in, no matter how yoy sliced it, is an incredibly questionable idea at best. I also find strange how everyone seems to be ok with the idea and no one had shown much doubt about Charle's vision (especially considering that Xavier has been less than trustworthy in recent years), except for Wolverine. But that might have to do with the poor transition between status quo.
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  2. #32

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    I think it's difficult to say one way or the other. When Wolverine and Cyclops were resurrected, their formerly dead bodies were reanimated. But when Jean came back in Phoenix Resurrection, her body was basically reconstituted by the Phoenix. Does that make her a clone? I would argue it doesn't. Same with Charles Xavier. When he died, his mind survived and had to be put in a new body. Was that a clone? I would argue that's somewhat of a gray area, which is something I think Hickman is navigating with the resurrection protocols.

    Ultimately, I don't think it matters. The characters that came back are still the same characters. There may be more complications down the line, depending on what Hickman does. But I don't think labeling them one or the other changes their status.
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  3. #33

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    The story of the X-Men, has become the story of the mutant race.

    The reason is because they can no long find succor and safety among the humans of the world. They have reached a point of base survival now, flee from the human perpetuated genocide or death. Those are the only two options left.

    The good humans do nothing, they don't try to stop the genocide, they don't try to help the mutants. Why? Possibly because they are afraid of their own governments, they are afraid of the government sanctioned hit squads, they are afraid of the Sentinels, and some humans are just afraid of the mutants and relieved that the problem is being taken care of by the mutant haters.

    In the face of a genocide, you either flee or you die!
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  4. #34
    Astonishing Member Vegan Daddy's Avatar
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    Nah, this series is selling too well. The days of ineffectual vigilantism and playing baseball in Westchester are over. The X-Men are shrewd supremacists and their chief concern is for mutants. The way it should be.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domino_Dare-Doll View Post
    As I said; it's the supremacist-like language.
    Examples?
    ....

  6. #36
    Astonishing Member Knives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegan Daddy View Post
    Nah, this series is selling too well. The days of ineffectual vigilantism and playing baseball in Westchester are over. The X-Men are shrewd supremacists and their chief concern is for mutants. The way it should be.
    A small price to pay considering what they earned. Now they can play baseiball or have parties without fear of a giant killer robot appearing out of nowhere attacking them and killing their children.

    Far from perfect but still safer than a school that has been blown so many times that I have lost count. Not to mention I lost count of how many times students were killed or kidnapped.

  7. #37
    Astonishing Member Glio's Avatar
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    It is worrying that at the moment when a minority begins to show pride, people start to be afraid of "both sides"

  8. #38
    BAMF!!!!! KurtW95's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knives View Post
    Manipulated Copies, Mind Control, Aliens truth is all possible.

    Villains ? Only in your head unless you consider Jews, Brazilians, Americans, Africans or any people who fought for independence, to escape genocide or to have a nation for their people villains ?

    Well mutants aren’t like an ethnic group as they can be born from non-mutants and can produce non-mutant children. Also they are not immigrating or renouncing their citizenship from their home nation. Rather they are saying that all mutants are automatically citizens and they thus have jurisdiction over every mutant. Look at what happened with Sabretooth who was committing crimes in the US and they stopped his justice from being served. That doesn’t work with any of your examples. If a random Jewish person commits a crime in the United States, Israel doesn’t have the right to whisk that person away.
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  9. #39
    Astonishing Member Glio's Avatar
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    Guys, practically all are clones recreated by Reed Richards / Franklin Richards and Molecule Man at the end of Secret Wars.

    Why matters one more time.

  10. #40
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glio View Post
    It is worrying that at the moment when a minority begins to show pride, people start to be afraid of "both sides"
    I'm not really afraid, just worried for their intentions of certain individuals. Mostly the villains, sorry but no one would ever be able to convince me that having then all of then around is a good idea (some of then yes, but Selene?, Emplate?, come on).
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  11. #41

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    Ask yourself if you think Hickman wants to tell a story about clones instead of the real X-Men/mutants.

    Then continue once you have that answer.

  12. #42
    Astonishing Member Knives's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KurtW95 View Post
    Well mutants aren’t like an ethnic group as they can be born from non-mutants and can produce non-mutant children. Also they are not immigrating or renouncing their citizenship from their home nation. Rather they are saying that all mutants are automatically citizens and they thus have jurisdiction over every mutant. Look at what happened with Sabretooth who was committing crimes in the US and they stopped his justice from being served. That doesn’t work with any of your examples. If a random Jewish person commits a crime in the United States, Israel doesn’t have the right to whisk that person away.
    Ever heard of extradition agreements?

    This is exactly what Krakoa has with countries that have accepted drugs and recognized their sovereignty. And why should they trust humans to make a fair judgment?

    How about we go back in the past. How many times mutant killers have been tried and convicted? I do not remember.

    But I remember that:

    Mutants europa massacre.jpg


    The X-men so far have not forced anyone to live in Krakoa. But I think most mutants still want to live there for reasons that needless to say.
    Last edited by Knives; 10-26-2019 at 07:59 AM.

  13. #43
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    Well reanimating corpses is a little different than making a clone from a genetic sample which is what they seem to be doing because theoretically the souls would be drawn to the corpse. With a clone then there is the possibility of multiple existing at the same time and of a new soul being created during the cloning procedures. Though you can’t really say that you don’t believe in souls because whether you like it or not they exist in the mainstream Marvel Universe. If they didn’t you could also argue that Ben Reilly could be the real Peter Parker if the former only became conscious after the latter dies.
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  14. #44
    BAMF!!!!! KurtW95's Avatar
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    That still doesn’t explain the insanity of harboring every single scumbag that happens to be a mutant.
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  15. #45
    Astonishing Member Glio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KurtW95 View Post
    That still doesn’t explain the insanity of harboring every single scumbag that happens to be a mutant.
    1) Not everyone agrees with that, Logan thinks it's a bad idea.

    2) It is the best possible alternative. What is the other? You can lock them in human prisons so that they are experimented and end up escaping with more hatred towards the humans. You can leave them loose causing harm to humans. You can execute them. Or you can try to get them back into society.

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