Is the current portrayal legitimate or will there be a twist to explain it?

[LordUltimus]

She was kid at that time.

I know that. It's fan entitlement.

[Theleviathan]

Yes, in a mutant only world, the mutants wouldn't meet such issues, but there again, when did Xavier EVER promoted a mutant only world to begin with? That's Magneto's vision, not Xavier's. Xavier never wanted for mutants to suppress sapiens or dominate them, he Always had been about cooperation, mutual development and equality.
Them being no closer to achieving this wouldn't have led him to dismiss his own vision, without any of his former students batting an eye about it.

I think we're largely going to disagree and that's ok. There is a lot of story left to be told and we'll see how things progress. However, I think the dream remains the same, but it's the tactics that have changed. Yes, Xavier has changed elements about what he wants, but I don't think that's a change to the dream.

The X-men have just come to terms with the brutality they face and adjusted tactics. You may well end up right that the dream is dead, but right now I can't say that and I don't think there is enough in print yet for that conclusion. Tactical changes? Absolutely. The dream? Still seems intact to me so far.

[Ulfhammer]

To be fair this is the least offensive she can do. Better than maim, kicking and punching is ok

It's not what she did, it's what she said. After Gold I had a reason to hate Kitty. I just didn't want to. As much as she's been through, I remember her as someone who's always understood what's right and what's wrong. Deriving pleasure from inflicting pain is not who she is.

[BroHomo]

It's not what she did, it's what she said. After Gold I had a reason to hate Kitty. I just didn't want to. As much as she's been through, I remember her as someone who's always understood what's right and what's wrong. Deriving pleasure from inflicting pain is not who she is.

Tell that to Piotr 'successfully jailbait'd then left at the Altar' Rasputin

[pkingdom]

Tell that to Piotr 'successfully jailbait'd then left at the Altar' Rasputin

Kitty has made a habit of stomping on the hearts of guys named Peter

[CoCoBandz]

It's not what she did, it's what she said. After Gold I had a reason to hate Kitty. I just didn't want to. As much as she's been through, I remember her as someone who's always understood what's right and what's wrong. Deriving pleasure from inflicting pain is not who she is.

It's not that deep. She kicked a jerk. The end.

Should've elbow dropped him too. He had it coming.

[Su_Whisterfield]

It's not that deep. She kicked a jerk. The end.

Should've elbow dropped him too. He had it coming.

She kicked him specifically as Emma said that's something she doesn’t do. I think that it was just the punchline to that joke.

[KurtW95]

First, if you are a fan of the Krakoa era and where the X-Men are now, I would recommend not engaging. I don't want this to be a place of arguments or a gloat fest. I assume there are pro-Krakoa threads and I don't go there to make trouble. But back to the point of the thread.

It is clear to me and many other X-Men fans that the franchise is in a bad place.

I feel that stems from a few specific problems.

• Shift in ideology

The X-Men have now completely dropped Charles Xavier's goal and the entire raison dêtre. Sworn to protect a world that hates and fears them. Fighting to prove that non-powered humans and mutants can live together in peace. Fighting mutants who seek to harm non-powered humans and non-powered humans who seek to harm mutants. A duty to help protect mutants, but not go to Magneto's old view that mutants should take over because of their superiority. The franchise started to stray from that when people in the X-Men were determined to make more mutants. Not caring about the suffering of the people who would gain powers. If the powers are even useful and don't cause death and destruction. And then came New Krakoa. I could somewhat understand Utopia, as the X-Men were living in retreat and it was understood as a temporary situation. Though I suppose you could say it planted the seeds. But Krakoa is a different animal. As horrible people are invited in if they are mutants. And horrible people doing horrible deeds are protected because they are mutants. And mutant children are separated from their non-mutant parents. Not as in going to a boarding school. But becoming a citizen of a new country where you become way more disconnected from the rest of the world. And mutant powers are worshipped to such an extent that you can be killed in a ritual to be reborn with powers.

• Characters continuously going off model

I would say that a lot of this started in Morrison's run. Making many X-Men characters suddenly immoral. Total jerks. Cyclops having an affair with Emma. Beast is made into a jerk. Jean is made into a jerk. And that only worseed as time went on. Save a few fleeting runs that were good. And it was still nowhere near as bad as it would later get. Tying into the first bullet point, a character like Cyclops becoming indistinguishable from villainous Magneto was a sight to behold. There are other character traits that were massively changed. Jubilee adopting a baby she found and the X-Men supporting that rather than telling her the baby would be safer if anyone else adopted him. In a manner similar to the episode of Boy Meets World. Where the child wanted Eric to adopt him, but Eric chose not to, even though he wanted to. Because he knew the child would have a better life with adoptive parents more equipped than himself. But going back to personalities. Several X-Men characters have had their sexual orientations changed. And their personalities have been changed too. People love to pretend that these retcons make sense but many of them go completely against established canon. And the people defending said changes have usually never read comics published earlier than twenty years ago. Creating new characters causes no issues. But changing old characters where the creators never agreed on it should not happen. Going off model also applies to villains. I think Magneto being antiheroic okay and I like him that way. But it really should end there. IMO, Sinister, Apocalypse, Shaw, Sabretooth, Mystique, and I would also say Emma, should remain villainous. Though, I suppose you could say most mutants are now villainous if they are okay with Krakoa. The X-Men I remember would've fought tooth and nail against it.

• Clones, retcons, and resurrections

I'm okay with some clones and alternate reality versions of characters, but it can also go too far. I already mentioned retcons of deep character traits, but I wanted to have room to mention the Moira retcon, Danger, and having Pietro and Wanda no longer being Magneto's children. Truly awful retcons. Moira should not be a mutant. And resurrections. I am one who thinks a lot of comic book deaths shouldn't have happened. And would like to see old characters that have been killed off come back. But the way Krakoa does it is screwed up. Creating an entirely new body. Making it that death is pretty much meaningless.

• Writers and artists

We have so many great X-Men creators still with us. And they are not allowed to write the main books. We got them on X-Men Legends. Which was the first X-Men series where they actually felt like the X-Men in a long time. But many of the new writers are very bad. And there is no reason to hire them over the greats who would still happily work. And this goes to the editors too. As they seem to not know the premise of the X-Men and from what I heard, took Hickman's idea of a temporary story and took the temporary out of it. I don't know what he had planned. But letting Krakoa unravel over an arc and have it be like another horrible alternate timeline would have been decent. And there need to be editors who can tell writers no and can keep characters on model. A lot of the best writers did their best work under constraints because letting them run wild would've screwed it all up. But now we have writers allowed to run wild. And most of them aren't even good. It's too bad. Artists also need to go back to drawing characters idealized. I'm not asking to make Cyclops look like Arnold Schwartzenegger. But don't make him look like an average guy.

• Celeb culture

The X-Men are not celebrities and would not engage in a dumb event like the Hellfire Gala on their stupid island. The Met Gala is beyond stupid IRL. And it's terribly pretentious to have real life celebrities hanging with the X-Men. Implying they would be pro-mutant in 616. I doubt it. Pop culture references only work when they're vague enough to be clever. Any other way, it's cringey and gets easily dated if you're not lucky enough to reference what will become a classic. But I feel like a lot of X-Men writers nowadays think of the X-Men more like celebrities they like rather than heroes.

How to fix all of these problems.

It would take a lot of guts to do any of these, but the only ways I can think of would would be:

A) Simply erasing the last few decades of continuity (maybe take it from the end of Lobdell's run). Could keep concepts and new characters that worked, but get rid of the baggage and allow the characters to be on model again. And have great writers write them like they did Legends.

B) Reveal that the Krakoan X-Men are imposters and the real X-Men are trapped somewhere. Maybe Mojo's doing.

C) Blame it all on a reality warper. Proteus screwed with reality somehow. And turn it back in a way that can get rid of a lot of the bad canon.

Thoughts and suggestions are welcome.

[Micabe]

'Nuff Said

[Omega Alpha]

Oh, another one of those. OK, then.

[Micabe]

Oh, another one of those. OK, then.

You posted that to convey what exactly? If you disagree with the OP or parts of the OP don't be cryptic about it your lack of verbal conviction smacks of some sort of "Pro/Neutral/Anti" agenda.

[Exodus]

some fresh talent...I think that some authors, sadly, overstayed their welcome and should get replaced by now. I like most of the series tbh but I feel like some creative decisions are so redundant and the last two or three crossovers have been exhausting to get through to say the leasts...

Let's speed up the plot a little bit. I feel stuck in this phase of the Krakoa era. Let's speed up the fall and let's move on to the next phase ASAP! I still love Krakoa.

p.s. didn't read the thread though. lol

[JB]

Genuine question for the OP. What are your thoughts on what's been revealed about Fall of X so far?

I've always felt Krakoa, as it was first introduced, wasn't entirely meant to last. So for me the story is still ongoing and we're about to hit a big pivot point before some major retooling.

[KurtW95]

Genuine question for the OP. What are your thoughts on what's been revealed about Fall of X so far?

I've always felt Krakoa, as it was first introduced, wasn't entirely meant to last. So for me the story is still ongoing and we're about to hit a big pivot point before some major retooling.

I'm not holding my breath. Unless there is a huge reveal absolving the X-Men from it, I don't know how any good can come from it. And I have no reason to believe that the people pulling the strings on the X-Books feel the same way that I do. In fact, I think it's pretty clear that they don't, given what's happened. The X-Offices need to be shaken up and yesterday. Put someone in there who is willing to say no and get rid of bad writers.

[sunofdarkchild]

The way to fix the problems is to spend the money to hire editors who are competent at the job, and then spend the money which would attract truly good writers. Bad editors who push terrible ideas is how a writer as good as Zeb Wells has written one of the worst Spider-Man runs of all time, while bad editors who exercise no quality control whatsoever and never do anything to try to push their writers to be even a little bit better is how we get the current X-Men line. The best writers have no reason to be in comics with how little the writers are paid and how unprofessional editorial is.