Is the demise of the Ultimate Universe what led to so much failure?

[KurtW95]

As somebody who was never a fan of the Ultimate Universe I’ve noticed that it was about the time when those titles stopped being published that the main universe started to go down the tube. What I think is that the Ultimate Universe gave creators a place to do their own versions of classic characters and go as crazy as they want with no responsibility to maintain continuity and core aspects that were put into place decades before from iconic creators. When the Ultimate Universe titles started to resemble the originals so little, they all just disappeared via cancellation. Then with no place to experiment like that, people brought that mentality to the main titles. No longer was it excusable to keep a classic costume because the version in the Ultimate Universe had the same costume used in the movies. They had to change the characters in the mainstream universe now and no longer have a place where they can do their own versions that can deviate away from the original characters.

[catbellysqueezer]

Which series have you read and didn't like?

[KurtW95]

Which series have you read and didn't like?

Of the Ultimate Universe titles from back when?

[catbellysqueezer]

Of the Ultimate Universe titles from back when?

No I mean new series that are out now

[PeterParked]

Characters always change. Lee, De Falco, De Matteis, Straczynky and Slott’s Spider Man aren’t the same identical SM. The original Iron Man, the alcoholic Iron Man, Ellis’s Iron Man and Fraction’s IM are not the same. Lee’s Hulk has little to do with David’s Hulk or the Hulk from Planet and World War that it’s quite different from the current Hulk by Ewing. Same for Thor by Hulk, Gillen or Aaron. Some traits stay the same, SM never surrender, Hulk is about Banner ID, Cap is an idealist, Thor about worthiness. These are the traits that made them different sometimes in the UU. Cap was a conservative soldier, Thor a Christ like figure, Hulk just am insecure children with an inferiority complex.

Costumes have nothing to do with story and characterisation, they change because tastes and trends evolve, old readers may develop an affection for a specific costumes but often that would just look ridiculous to younger readers. Also costumes often don’t change completely they are just updated.

[KurtW95]

No I mean new series that are out now

Fine then off the top of my head Captain America, Ms. Marvel, Captain Marvel, Shuri, Black Panther, Ironheart, Marauders, Fearless, Moon Girl, Runaways, Future Foundation, Squirrel Girl, Gwenpool, Avengers.

[KurtW95]

Costumes have nothing to do with story and characterisation, they change because tastes and trends evolve, old readers may develop an affection for a specific costumes but often that would just look ridiculous to younger readers. Also costumes often don’t change completely they are just updated.

This is patently untrue. They don’t look ridiculous to younger readers.

[Rosebunse]

The Ultimate Marvel universe wasn't exactly doing that hot. It quickly became as convoluted as 616 in one third of the time.

[DragonsChi]

It became pointless when many of the elements that made it unique got moved over or slipped into the 616.

[Digifiend]

Fine then off the top of my head Captain America, Ms. Marvel, Captain Marvel, Shuri, Black Panther, Ironheart, Marauders, Fearless, Moon Girl, Runaways, Future Foundation, Squirrel Girl, Gwenpool, Avengers.

With all those other teen books there, I'm surprised you didn't mention Miles Morales and Champions. It's clear you aren't fond of the teen books.

I can understand you mentioning Captain America and Black Panther, there's been complaints that those two books run at a glacial pace.

Marauders is only one issue in, for crying out loud. I don't think a book can be judged by just one issue.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

The Ultimate Universe was never intended to last very long.

It began as an experiment, it got traction and became successful, but the idea of Ultimate Universe being a permanent long-lasting line in Marvel history as opposed to the latest iteration of a series of alternate timeline titles (2099, MC2)...was never Marvel's intent.

It was always Marvel's plan to incorporate aspects of Ultimate Marvel into the main continuity and after seeing what it worked, replicated that in 616 while also moving Bendis, Millar and others over there.

[Jabare]

the Ultimate Universe was R&D for the MCU and live action projects, but then Disney just decided to make the 616 R&D.

The best things to come out of th eUltimate Universe were several Spider-Man universe ideas and concepts and Nick Fury.

The BP ideas were a non starter. The Captain America ideas were interesting but didn't completely jive with Disney.

Certainly had some gritty takes on the X-men and Fantastic Four. I'm not sure current Marvel would go those routes, but still gave readers some interesting storries.

The Ultimates vampire storyline turned out way better then that X-men curse of the Mutants story.


I'm probably forgetting a lot of things, but the Spider-Man book was always the heart of that universe. Everything else built around that

[KurtW95]

With all those other teen books there, I'm surprised you didn't mention Miles Morales and Champions. It's clear you aren't fond of the teen books.

I can understand you mentioning Captain America and Black Panther, there's been complaints that those two books run at a glacial pace.

Marauders is only one issue in, for crying out loud. I don't think a book can be judged by just one issue.

With Champions and Miles they are more mediocre than else. Though I thought the former had been cancelled recently. It did get a lot better when Zub took over even though I don’t like a lot of the characters in the book. On the other hand Ahmed’s writing can be decent or terrible but it doesn’t matter to me because I will not purchase a book with his name on it after the atrocious and bigoted sentiments he’s unrepentantly made. Also with Marauders I can always be convinced I was wrong but the premiere issue had the features characters not acting like heroes or resembling the characterizations that made them famous.

[Personamanx]

Nothing to do with it. The end of the Ultimate Universe, and any perceived lack of success in recent years has to do with two things: The slow, agonizing death of print media, and the fact that it's far easier to get your superhero fix from TV or movies nowadays. The vast majority of superhero fans don't care about the medium the characters they like appear in, they'd be content with YouTube recaps, and the occasional production still. Superhero comics in print priced themselves out of accessibility to ever be the primary medium again, they continue to be published largely as a farming tool for IP, and because they're still somewhat expected to exist. It reminds me of how Playboy is published at a loss because it's expected to exist while the Bunny logo is slapped on everything.

The films have mattered more than the comics for the last decade. Importing Ultimate Universe assets into the main line, and larger lack of focus on the pretense of a shared universe is just an admittance of it. There's still good stuff published. There's still bad stuff published, but a lot of it is just trying to milk quick successes or as a means to promote already successful properties.

[Prof. Warren]

Fine then off the top of my head Captain America, Ms. Marvel, Captain Marvel, Shuri, Black Panther, Ironheart, Marauders, Fearless, Moon Girl, Runaways, Future Foundation, Squirrel Girl, Gwenpool, Avengers.

I bet that, for the most part, you haven't actually read a single one of those titles.

You're just complaining about them because, by and large, they feature characters that you have some fanboy grudge against. Or because they're written by an author - like Coates or Aaron - that you have some kind of irrational internet rage for.

I mean, honestly. If you aren't a teenager or at least a very young adult - and probably female to boot - Ironheart, Fearless, Moon Girl, Runaways, Ms. Marvel or Squirrel Girl are not aimed at you in any way. I don't read any of those titles and yet I still find enough from Marvel to pick up about ten books a week.

Coates' BP has become a real snooze but he's - so far - doing a bang-up job with Cap. It's one of the best runs on the character, in fact. Coates could end up dragging his plot out to the point where it becomes intolerable but he hasn't gotten there yet. And Aaron's Avengers has been, for this long time Avengers fan, the most consistent fun the title's been since Busiek and Perez. I know he's engendered the ire of some She-Hulk fans but, oh well, you can't please everyone. Once he got past the initial arc, which was not all that gripping, his Avengers has been a blast.

And Marauders, come on. You're really showing your hand by complaining about that one. It's one issue in.