Is the demise of the Ultimate Universe what led to so much failure?

[KurtW95]

As somebody who was never a fan of the Ultimate Universe I’ve noticed that it was about the time when those titles stopped being published that the main universe started to go down the tube. What I think is that the Ultimate Universe gave creators a place to do their own versions of classic characters and go as crazy as they want with no responsibility to maintain continuity and core aspects that were put into place decades before from iconic creators. When the Ultimate Universe titles started to resemble the originals so little, they all just disappeared via cancellation. Then with no place to experiment like that, people brought that mentality to the main titles. No longer was it excusable to keep a classic costume because the version in the Ultimate Universe had the same costume used in the movies. They had to change the characters in the mainstream universe now and no longer have a place where they can do their own versions that can deviate away from the original characters.

[catbellysqueezer]

Which series have you read and didn't like?

[KurtW95]

Which series have you read and didn't like?

Of the Ultimate Universe titles from back when?

[catbellysqueezer]

Of the Ultimate Universe titles from back when?

No I mean new series that are out now

[PeterParked]

Characters always change. Lee, De Falco, De Matteis, Straczynky and Slott’s Spider Man aren’t the same identical SM. The original Iron Man, the alcoholic Iron Man, Ellis’s Iron Man and Fraction’s IM are not the same. Lee’s Hulk has little to do with David’s Hulk or the Hulk from Planet and World War that it’s quite different from the current Hulk by Ewing. Same for Thor by Hulk, Gillen or Aaron. Some traits stay the same, SM never surrender, Hulk is about Banner ID, Cap is an idealist, Thor about worthiness. These are the traits that made them different sometimes in the UU. Cap was a conservative soldier, Thor a Christ like figure, Hulk just am insecure children with an inferiority complex.

Costumes have nothing to do with story and characterisation, they change because tastes and trends evolve, old readers may develop an affection for a specific costumes but often that would just look ridiculous to younger readers. Also costumes often don’t change completely they are just updated.

[KurtW95]

Costumes have nothing to do with story and characterisation, they change because tastes and trends evolve, old readers may develop an affection for a specific costumes but often that would just look ridiculous to younger readers. Also costumes often don’t change completely they are just updated.

This is patently untrue. They don’t look ridiculous to younger readers.

[Anthony W]

Costumes have nothing to do with story and characterisation, they change because tastes and trends evolve, old readers may develop an affection for a specific costumes but often that would just look ridiculous to younger readers. Also costumes often don’t change completely they are just updated.

Have you seen Hero Academia? Those costumes makes Marvel's look tame.

[KurtW95]

No I mean new series that are out now

Fine then off the top of my head Captain America, Ms. Marvel, Captain Marvel, Shuri, Black Panther, Ironheart, Marauders, Fearless, Moon Girl, Runaways, Future Foundation, Squirrel Girl, Gwenpool, Avengers.

[Digifiend]

Fine then off the top of my head Captain America, Ms. Marvel, Captain Marvel, Shuri, Black Panther, Ironheart, Marauders, Fearless, Moon Girl, Runaways, Future Foundation, Squirrel Girl, Gwenpool, Avengers.

With all those other teen books there, I'm surprised you didn't mention Miles Morales and Champions. It's clear you aren't fond of the teen books.

I can understand you mentioning Captain America and Black Panther, there's been complaints that those two books run at a glacial pace.

Marauders is only one issue in, for crying out loud. I don't think a book can be judged by just one issue.

[Prof. Warren]

Fine then off the top of my head Captain America, Ms. Marvel, Captain Marvel, Shuri, Black Panther, Ironheart, Marauders, Fearless, Moon Girl, Runaways, Future Foundation, Squirrel Girl, Gwenpool, Avengers.

I bet that, for the most part, you haven't actually read a single one of those titles.

You're just complaining about them because, by and large, they feature characters that you have some fanboy grudge against. Or because they're written by an author - like Coates or Aaron - that you have some kind of irrational internet rage for.

I mean, honestly. If you aren't a teenager or at least a very young adult - and probably female to boot - Ironheart, Fearless, Moon Girl, Runaways, Ms. Marvel or Squirrel Girl are not aimed at you in any way. I don't read any of those titles and yet I still find enough from Marvel to pick up about ten books a week.

Coates' BP has become a real snooze but he's - so far - doing a bang-up job with Cap. It's one of the best runs on the character, in fact. Coates could end up dragging his plot out to the point where it becomes intolerable but he hasn't gotten there yet. And Aaron's Avengers has been, for this long time Avengers fan, the most consistent fun the title's been since Busiek and Perez. I know he's engendered the ire of some She-Hulk fans but, oh well, you can't please everyone. Once he got past the initial arc, which was not all that gripping, his Avengers has been a blast.

And Marauders, come on. You're really showing your hand by complaining about that one. It's one issue in.

[catbellysqueezer]

Fine then off the top of my head Captain America, Ms. Marvel, Captain Marvel, Shuri, Black Panther, Ironheart, Marauders, Fearless, Moon Girl, Runaways, Future Foundation, Squirrel Girl, Gwenpool, Avengers.

And what specifically did you find wrong with them?

[Cowtools]

Fine then off the top of my head Ms. Marvel, Captain Marvel, Shuri, Black Panther, Ironheart, Fearless, Moon Girl, Runaways, Future Foundation, Squirrel Girl, Gwenpool.

What is it about female- PoC- and teen-lead books that people can't just go 'Well I guess this isn't targeted at me' and forget them, but instead they have to insist that these books are destroying Marvel and the whole comics industry?
And when you confront them, they insist that they're not actually sexist or racist because they love [insert Bronze Age minority character here].
From seeing conversations online, it seems like these guys are only okay with women and minority characters when A) they aren't leads of a book, B) their identity status does not factor into their characterisation or stories at all, C) these books aren't marketed to anybody outside of a typical comic-store-going affluent middle-aged white male demographic.

[Triniking1234]

As somebody who was never a fan of the Ultimate Universe I’ve noticed that it was about the time when those titles stopped being published that the main universe started to go down the tube. What I think is that the Ultimate Universe gave creators a place to do their own versions of classic characters and go as crazy as they want with no responsibility to maintain continuity and core aspects that were put into place decades before from iconic creators. When the Ultimate Universe titles started to resemble the originals so little, they all just disappeared via cancellation. Then with no place to experiment like that, people brought that mentality to the main titles. No longer was it excusable to keep a classic costume because the version in the Ultimate Universe had the same costume used in the movies. They had to change the characters in the mainstream universe now and no longer have a place where they can do their own versions that can deviate away from the original characters.

Doubt it.

Ultimate Universe was officially killed off around Time Runs Out and 616 was going well. Due to Steve, Odinson, Stark, Banner, Logan and others being replaced (I liked x-23 and Captain Falcon), the bad reception of some of the lower tier books (Unbeatable Squirrel Girl, America, etc.) there was a bit of revolt, cancellation of Fantastic Four and Inhumans push at the expense of the X-Men, there was a bit of revolt from fans, drop in quality and event abuse.

[Rosebunse]

Doubt it.

Ultimate Universe was officially killed off around Time Runs Out and 616 was going well. Due to Steve, Odinson, Stark, Banner, Logan and others being replaced (I liked x-23 and Captain Falcon), the bad reception of some of the lower tier books (Unbeatable Squirrel Girl, America, etc.) there was a bit of revolt, cancellation of Fantastic Four and Inhumans push at the expense of the X-Men, there was a bit of revolt from fans, drop in quality and event abuse.

I wouldn't call it a "revolt" or anything. I think people just weren't buying some of the books. There were a bunch of weird fans who threw a fit, but those people also turned off other fans because they were so cringey themselves.

[Bloxer]

Doubt it.

Ultimate Universe was officially killed off around Time Runs Out and 616 was going well. Due to Steve, Odinson, Stark, Banner, Logan and others being replaced (I liked x-23 and Captain Falcon), the bad reception of some of the lower tier books (Unbeatable Squirrel Girl, America, etc.) there was a bit of revolt, cancellation of Fantastic Four and Inhumans push at the expense of the X-Men, there was a bit of revolt from fans, drop in quality and event abuse.

Yeah, I don't recall Squirrel Girl getting bad reception.
America definitely, but Squirrel Girl not so much.