Is the demise of the Ultimate Universe what led to so much failure?

[Prof. Warren]

Well, I'd share the link with you so you could judge for yourself but likely the powers that be would take it down and suspend me for a while. That being said, the reviewer in question showed pages from the comic. I saw Kitty Pryde stealing a boat, getting drunk, kneecapping a Russian soldier who was just doing his job (which was repelling invaders. The X-Men) and then solidifying a rifle in the legs of two other soldiers, which was pretty horrific.

Well, I actually read the issue so I don't need a YouTuber to (badly) recap it for me.

You could take the actions of many heroes out of context and say they're villainous.

They are, after all, for the most part outlaws.

Nothing Kitty - or rather Kate - does in that issue is beyond the pale in any way.

[Bloxer]

I'm not calling her kate it's dumb.
She's still Kitty.

And what is the point of this thread? From what I'm getting OP is just using the Ultimate Universe as an excuse to complain about books they didn't like.

[WebLurker]

On top of that I never liked Bendis' decompressed storytelling style; for example, it took him six issues to tell us Spider Man's origin.

I don't know; his decompression did allow for more characterization and development of the stories. I'd take that over more, but quicker tales.

[Omega Alpha]

Good points. But I would say it is worse than that. Mark Millar is to my mind a terrible writer and his take on The Ultimates was to give us cynical, unlikeable bastards. I also wasn't a fan of Fantastic Four either. On top of that I never liked Bendis' decompressed storytelling style; for example, it took him six issues to tell us Spider Man's origin.

Oh, one might have problems with Millar's writing in Ultimates or Ult. F4 or even Bendis USM, but compared to Loeb, it's Shakespeare.

[Holt]

Well, I'd share the link with you so you could judge for yourself but likely the powers that be would take it down and suspend me for a while.

If it's from that person then yeah, you're basically just proving the poster's point about Youtube reviewers being inflammatory and stupid. There's a reason that guy's stuff got banned from here.

[Rosebunse]

If it's from that person then yeah, you're basically just proving the poster's point about Youtube reviewers being inflammatory and stupid. There's a reason that guy's stuff got banned from here.

My issue with them is that so few of them are any good. So many of them are just annoying people yelling about how a character is "broken" or stupid because they changed them or something. They don't really offer much in way of actual analysis and or even fun.

[Desmark]

What the OP seems to want is for stories that are reminiscent of the ones he read as a child that do not proceed forward in any manner or deviate in any way at all.

[WebLurker]

My issue with them is that so few of them are any good. So many of them are just annoying people yelling about how a character is "broken" or stupid because they changed them or something. They don't really offer much in way of actual analysis and or even fun.

Seconded. I've seen very few YouTube reviewers who actually review the stuff in question they talk about, much less have anything meaningful to say about it. While there certainly is a place for being able to say why you didn't like certain things, most of those channels are just endless rationalizations of entitlement issues worthy of a five-year-old and the unintentional humor of seeing people do that clearly thinking that they're presenting some great wisdom gets old really fast.

[katefan]

Well, I actually read the issue so I don't need a YouTuber to (badly) recap it for me.

You could take the actions of many heroes out of context and say they're villainous.

They are, after all, for the most part outlaws.

Nothing Kitty - or rather Kate - does in that issue is beyond the pale in any way.

How am I taking Kitty's actions out of context? The Marauders invaded another country, attacked soldiers defending said country, committed horrific acts of violence against people simply doing their job. And I get that they're outlaws, the X-Men have always operated on the fringes of what people consider legal. But this is a level of violence to my knowledge Kitty never displayed before outside of her being possessed by Baron Karza of being under some form of mind control. Does liquor count?

And okay, you read the whole comic. I chose to spend my $3.99 on something else and watch the recap for free.

[ed2962]

I'm not calling her kate it's dumb.
She's still Kitty.

And what is the point of this thread? From what I'm getting OP is just using the Ultimate Universe as an excuse to complain about books they didn't like.

I think the OP is acting in good faith. He's just asking if there is a correlation between the end of the Ultimate Line and how the mood of the 616 Universe shifted ( I don't think thee is).

[ed2962]

If it's from that person then yeah, you're basically just proving the poster's point about Youtube reviewers being inflammatory and stupid. There's a reason that guy's stuff got banned from here.

If we're talking about the guy who's now trying to rebrand himself, he's admitted he mostly just buys comics to roast them and once in awhile he's surprised when he likes them. But he ( and a few others in his circle) is not a honest actor.

[ed2962]

How am I taking Kitty's actions out of context? The Marauders invaded another country, attacked soldiers defending said country, committed horrific acts of violence against people simply doing their job. And I get that they're outlaws, the X-Men have always operated on the fringes of what people consider legal. But this is a level of violence to my knowledge Kitty never displayed before outside of her being possessed by Baron Karza of being under some form of mind control. Does liquor count?

And okay, you read the whole comic. I chose to spend my $3.99 on something else and watch the recap for free.

You haven't, but the person you got the recap from probably did. His whole act is to misrepresent what's going on in some comic and pretend there's some great moral outrage going on then mock people to produced it. God forbid he did reviews of things he's actually interested in, but that wouldn't get him views.

[Rosebunse]

Seconded. I've seen very few YouTube reviewers who actually review the stuff in question they talk about, much less have anything meaningful to say about it. While there certainly is a place for being able to say why you didn't like certain things, most of those channels are just endless rationalizations of entitlement issues worthy of a five-year-old and the unintentional humor of seeing people do that clearly thinking that they're presenting some great wisdom gets old really fast.

And it really hurts the rest of the fandom, far more than any book actually has. How are we supposed to attract new readers when those people are who they see?

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

I think the OP is acting in good faith. He's just asking if there is a correlation between the end of the Ultimate Line and how the mood of the 616 Universe shifted ( I don't think thee is).

I'd say it's more Civil War than the end of the Ultimate Universe.

Older fans tend to say thats when the MU put plot over existing characterization. I got into comics with that era so i can't say for sure myself.

[Triniking1234]

As somebody who was never a fan of the Ultimate Universe I’ve noticed that it was about the time when those titles stopped being published that the main universe started to go down the tube. What I think is that the Ultimate Universe gave creators a place to do their own versions of classic characters and go as crazy as they want with no responsibility to maintain continuity and core aspects that were put into place decades before from iconic creators. When the Ultimate Universe titles started to resemble the originals so little, they all just disappeared via cancellation. Then with no place to experiment like that, people brought that mentality to the main titles. No longer was it excusable to keep a classic costume because the version in the Ultimate Universe had the same costume used in the movies. They had to change the characters in the mainstream universe now and no longer have a place where they can do their own versions that can deviate away from the original characters.

Doubt it.

Ultimate Universe was officially killed off around Time Runs Out and 616 was going well. Due to Steve, Odinson, Stark, Banner, Logan and others being replaced (I liked x-23 and Captain Falcon), the bad reception of some of the lower tier books (Unbeatable Squirrel Girl, America, etc.) there was a bit of revolt, cancellation of Fantastic Four and Inhumans push at the expense of the X-Men, there was a bit of revolt from fans, drop in quality and event abuse.