Superior Spider-Man #12

[Tendrin]

The more I see of this, the more I am convinced there's a swerve coming.

But we'll see!

[Lukmendes]

Of course, he was made during Spiderverse so he naturally acts like his creator. Though while he may be treated like Otto, he isn't actually Otto.

I'm saying how the original Otto back in the first volume of Superior was being praised and his crimes being undermined, and my point is that since that happened with the original, of course it'd happen with the mental clone too.

Even the Marvel wiki refers to him as "Otto Octavius (Duplicate)," given how he began as a digitized backup copy of Otto's mind. That said, considering he still has Otto Octavius as his basis . . . for all intents and purposes, he is Otto.

Funnily enough, the Otto mental clone situation is kinda like Old Man Logan, with everyone/almost everyone treating him like he's the original, even Mephisto makes no mention of that Otto not being the original.

Not as bad as OML though, 'cause at least mental clone Otto has 99% of Otto's memories and experiences, only things lacking are the memories of the last issues of Superior, meanwhile, OML was an older counterpart from a different universe and he was treated the same for no reason lol.

The more I see of this, the more I am convinced there's a swerve coming.

But we'll see!

Yeah it's worth keeping in mind that we never actually see what Otto said to Mephisto, maybe he's playing 4D chess, going to Norman with a fake body that looks like Peter's clone, and going with his own original one, only to turn out he never did make a deal and he's still in that body and the original one was a distraction .

[Celgress]

Well, when that development was bad and shouldn't have happened at all I see no problem with it.

You do know some people feel the exact same way about Peter and MJ's marriage or even their relationship in general? One person's trash is another person's treasure.

[Bloxer]

Yes and...?
Everything about this concept was stupid and overstayed it's welcome.

[Digifiend]

Not as bad as OML though, 'cause at least mental clone Otto has 99% of Otto's memories and experiences, only things lacking are the memories of the last issues of Superior, meanwhile, OML was an older counterpart from a different universe and he was treated the same for no reason lol.

They did actually address that. Logan didn't know about Totally Awesome Hulk and the female Thor, among other things. Apparently Death of Wolverine never happened for him - which means the original OML mini takes place earlier than that. I think more than likely the time displaced O5 arriving prevented OML's timeline in 616 (the original OML comic was published before that point). There has, however, been subsequent contradictions. Viv Vision showed up in Old Man Quill, but if Totally Awesome Hulk didn't exist because the deaths of the heroes happened before then, then neither should she, as they appeared at around the same time.

[Prof. Warren]

Yes and...?
Everything about this concept was stupid and overstayed it's welcome.

In your mind, it did. And that's a valid opinion but it's still simply an opinion. Many other fans, clearly from the sentiments expressed on this thread, did not find SSM "stupid" nor felt it "overstayed its welcome." Not every storyline appeals to everyone. It doesn't make the ones that you personally don't like "stupid." Usually stupid storylines that overstay their welcome don't have the legs that SSM did. Where Marvel will take Ock after the conclusion of this series, we don't know yet, but if this markls the end of his time as a self-proclaimed hero I've found it to be a fun ride.

[Hugo Strange]

Even the Marvel wiki refers to him as "Otto Octavius (Duplicate)," given how he began as a digitized backup copy of Otto's mind. That said, considering he still has Otto Octavius as his basis . . . for all intents and purposes, he is Otto.

Clone = Ressurection

Read Clone Conspiracy and House/Powers of X

[Batman Begins 2005]

In your mind, it did. And that's a valid opinion but it's still simply an opinion. Many other fans, clearly from the sentiments expressed on this thread, did not find SSM "stupid" nor felt it "overstayed its welcome." Not every storyline appeals to everyone. It doesn't make the ones that you personally don't like "stupid." Usually stupid storylines that overstay their welcome don't have the legs that SSM did. Where Marvel will take Ock after the conclusion of this series, we don't know yet, but if this markls the end of his time as a self-proclaimed hero I've found it to be a fun ride.

Thank you.

[Hugo Strange]

Usually stupid storylines that overstay their welcome don't have the legs that SSM did.

2 words: Clone Saga

[Bloxer]

2 words: Clone Saga

Case in point.

[Prof. Warren]

2 words: Clone Saga

Clone Saga was a victim of its own popularity. And also, ultimately, of editorial losing its nerve.

It was a sales juggernaut that was dragged out simply because it was one of the few things in comics that was truly hot at the time.

So, not a stupid idea at its core and definitely extremely popular. In trying to extend the storyline and in veering off from their original plans, CS got muddled in the end.

But I'm sure many of today's fans became avid Spidey readers during that storyline.

Also, CS has proven to have legs in that it still provides fodder for stories to this day and characters introduced in it, like Kaine and Ben Reilly, continue to be fan favorites.

[Digifiend]

Clone = Ressurection

Read Clone Conspiracy and House/Powers of X

Not always, else there'd be three Peter Parkers. He has two clones, remember. See also, Gabby Kinney.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

There are any number of stories which had success and legs and are considered to be bad stories or otherwise detrimental, and generally seen as jokes.

The idea that something being a sales success means it's good or worthy or that it's somehow a validation, or that it means it cannot be criticized, dismissed, insulted and so on is a new one and not something that's ever been observed/accepted in any other medium or field. Not in music, or TV, or movies or theatre and so on. Season 8 of Game of Thrones is successful but it's not considered good by the vast majority of people. Same with Michael Bay, or before him Irwin Allen in the 70s and so on.

In your mind, it did. And that's a valid opinion but it's still simply an opinion.

As is anything you say. Silence is an option, you don't have to come and attack anyone talking smack about Superior and make an issue where none existed before. A poster made a harmless and pretty mild three sentence post, you could have left it at that.

Usually stupid storylines that overstay their welcome don't have the legs that SSM did.

Superior Spider-Man #11 dropped lower in sales from #10, continuing the pattern of Superior's run under Gage where each issue has sold lower and lower than the previous one (https://www.comichron.com/monthlycom...9/2019-09.html). Last month it was at 106 rank, now it's 116. And it's a good bit lower than Spider-Man Velocity #2, a PS4 Game extension which is at 84 rank.

So I think the evidence points to Superior Spider-Man not having legs, all things considered.

FYI, Abrams' Spider-Man #1 is the top selling Spider-Man comic this month. Based on sales, we would have to say that's a great comic, since it opened higher than any single issue of Zdarsky's Life Story. But again, most people don't consider that to be the case. Abrams' Spider-Man is not consider better than Life Story or any other Spider-Man story after all.

[Hugo Strange]

Not always, else there'd be three Peter Parkers. He has two clones, remember. See also, Gabby Kinney.

This only happens when the cloned person is dead.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

This only happens when the cloned person is dead.

Krakoa resurrection is entirely different from cloning in Spider-Man titles. For one thing, the Krakoa process by the Five gives us an explanation for the revival. We know they came from eggs (by Goldballs-the-formerly-useless), which were then modified and placed in a time bubble to allow rapid aging, alongside that you have other aspects involved in reviving and recreating a human body, like a copy of the DNA stored by Mister Sinister, and finally Xavier reinserted the consciousness of each mutant back in.

Nothing like that has ever been given with any Spiderclone or Octoclone. It's always been bad science-fiction. Whereas Krakoa cloning is good science-fiction.

That whole trash explanation in Clone Conspiracy that it somehow got the real souls of people when they died...that doesn't pass muster and it's basically "magic we don't have to explain it"...well if it's science (as presented there) you do have to explain it and it has to be good. In the case of Krakoa, we are given a good explanation and justification for why the Cyclops in the new body is the same as the one before.

So it's not the same thing by any means.