Superior Spider-Man #12

[Revolutionary_Jack]

I don't have a problem with classic Doc Ock coming back, but i hope that his usage will be equal to Claremont's Magneto or Nicieza's Zemo. I would love to see a Doc Ock saving the world,but on his own terms,with his own identity and clear of anything Spider-Man related.

Not comparable because Claremont’s Magneto has a wide consensus in terms of superiority to L-K Magneto.

Superior Ock is utterly polarising and it has not attained wide consensus as being better than Classic Ock.

[SpideyClone]

There was a certain poetry to this issue. Otto's run as Superior began in a cemetery saying goodbye to his old life, and it ends similarly. And the visual homage to Spider-man no more. If Peter Parker can say Spider-man no more and return to being Spider-man, who's to say Otto can't at some point. As an aside, I believe Otto has full memory of his time as Superior, not just a glimmer. You saw it in his face when he left Emma and Annamaria, and its the kind of thing Mephisto would do, just to torment him.

[Aura Blaize]

Oh god, there do I start.

This is, without a shadow of a doubt, the worst comic I have ever read. Yes, it's even worse than One More Day. Because while that story had some absolutely shitty story telling, at least there was some slight at the end of the tunnel. You knew things were going to be different.

This however? What was the point. "Oh, lets return Doc Ock to how he was." What the ever loving f*** for? So he can go back to fighting Spider-Man like he has for the last 40 or whatever years?

What really annoys me about this is that the feeling of "They had to revert this sooner or later." Because he's a villian? Hell, so was Venom. And not only has he disavowed his grudge against Spider-Man, the two of them are almost as close as brothers now. See? Character development is a thing that happens in comics! Elliot ended up being an interesting character. On paper it sounded like "Dark Spider-Man" but it worked out so well. If this was the entire plan from the start then it is one really cruel tease.

Also, OMD CLEARLY went over with the fans so well so what on earth possessed them to do it again?

I'm starting to wonder if I'm broken for actually wanting comics to change instead of Status Quo ruling all the time.

I suppose I should bring up the actual issue. What the heck was done in which Elliot HAD to do this? What Doc Ock did is something Elliot could have done relatively easily.

Just....ugh. WTF Marvel?

[Lukmendes]

So Otto made the deal to control a bunch of arms, somehow Elliot couldn't do that? Yeah, this is half assed.

Guess it's a case of "lol comic books".

What really annoys me about this is that the feeling of "They had to revert this sooner or later." Because he's a villian? Hell, so was Venom. And not only has he disavowed his grudge against Spider-Man, the two of them are almost as close as brothers now. See? Character development is a thing that happens in comics! Elliot ended up being an interesting character. On paper it sounded like "Dark Spider-Man" but it worked out so well. If this was the entire plan from the start then it is one really cruel tease.

It's a case of "granfather's clause", because truthfuly, Venom wasn't a villain for that long, while Otto spent the majority of his existence as one, so it's natural that, because he's a "classic" villain, he should remain that way.

Not saying having this kind of mentality is a good thing mind you, just that it is what it is.

[Aura Blaize]

So Otto made the deal to control a bunch of arms, somehow Elliot couldn't do that? Yeah, this is half assed.

Guess it's a case of "lol comic books".



It's a case of "granfather's clause", because truthfuly, Venom wasn't a villain for that long, while Otto spent the majority of his existence as one, so it's natural that, because he's a "classic" villain, he should remain that way.

Not saying having this kind of mentality is a good thing mind you, just that it is what it is.

I get he wasn't a villian long, but seriously. When you think of Venom what do you usually think of? "WE WILL EAT YOUR BRAINS" or some variant. Now look at him.

I'm just tired of that attitude. We got something interesting and they took it away because reasons.

[HypnoHustler]

So Otto made the deal to control a bunch of arms, somehow Elliot couldn't do that? Yeah, this is half assed.

Guess it's a case of "lol comic books".



It's a case of "granfather's clause", because truthfuly, Venom wasn't a villain for that long, while Otto spent the majority of his existence as one, so it's natural that, because he's a "classic" villain, he should remain that way.

Kaine is another one like Venom that will probably stick to being a “good guy”, since he was a villain for an even shorter time. As for Ock, I liken him to Sandman...

Not saying having this kind of mentality is a good thing mind you, just that it is what it is.

I still haven’t gotten over Sandman reverting back to a villain and that happened 20 years ago. Thought undoing all that character development was a tragedy at the time. Hate when characters revert and drop all their development. It’s a major failing when comics lack the strength of their convictions. If it’s any consolation it was probably editorial’s call and not Gage’s.

[SuperiorIronman]

I've mentioned earlier that there was ways to keep these developments in full so I might as well list a few of them off;

-Superior Octopus: Otto makes the transition back to Superior Octopus to depict his villainy, but instead does much the same thing here. The only difference is that Mephisto isn't involved and while Otto is a hero in this instance, it's abundantly clear Otto would be hunted by the law. Thus he discards the identity in favor of something he made as to not be dirtying Peter's name by association.

-Clones: Otto clearly has more clones to work with and as such he uses the clones (minds being blank of course) in order to kill them and rescue the kid. To the public he'd still be a villain but when the camera go off Otto gains his second win and takes down Norman.

-Split Octopus: Otto has a clone of himself in his old form which helps control the legion of arms to take on Norman, however Otto overdid it and the clone escapes freeing Elliot and Otto to do their respective things. -as an aside we literally had the opportunity to have our cake and eat it by simply using both. We have clones, we can just do that and neither are the original Otto anyways.

[Junco]

This is dumb. More arms? Why didn't he just waltz in with army of clones?

Issue belongs in a trash can in an alleyway.

[Jman27]

Well he’s back to being his short and chubby self. I’m not even going to be mad at this or fight it. The status quo over everything else

[Frontier]

This is, without a shadow of a doubt, the worst comic I have ever read. Yes, it's even worse than One More Day. Because while that story had some absolutely shitty story telling, at least there was some slight at the end of the tunnel. You knew things were going to be different.

Was there though?

I get he wasn't a villian long, but seriously. When you think of Venom what do you usually think of? "WE WILL EAT YOUR BRAINS" or some variant. Now look at him.

Probably because adaptions still depict him as a villain 99.9% of the time. It's a byproduct of being one of The Big Three Spider-Man villains.

(I guess it's also because Venom sells better then SpOck).

[Digifiend]

Not the current one! Otto's actually being a hero in the Disney XD cartoon. Helped Peter in last weekend's episode, will be teaming up with the girls in an upcoming one.

[Kurolegacy]

Probably because adaptions still depict him as a villain 99.9% of the time. It's a byproduct of being one of The Big Three Spider-Man villains.

(I guess it's also because Venom sells better then SpOck).

The irony being that in spite of Venom being depicted as a villain in most adaptations of the character and thus the picture of him being a villain becomes mainstream, they actually allow Venom to grow and change without reverting to factory default. Hell, until recently, the symbiote still has a grudge against Peter for abandoning it but even that it was allowed to grow past. Honestly, the concept of Status Quo is God is a terrible concept especially when it comes to a character’s growth. To reset the character any time they achieve growth is to just lock them in amber forever which, I’m sorry, makes the character grow stale especially when you’ve see the heights they can reach with a good story.

What Superior Spider-Man did with its ending was one of the worst things that an ending can do, render the entire story pointless. It doesn’t leave me wanting to see what happens next for Otto and it definitely doesn’t make me want to go back and re-read Superior. It makes me feel like I wasted my time and money for following the series. I absolutely hated the concept of Superior the first time around but the execution of the series in this volume genuinely made me care about what was happening with the character and enjoy tuning in every month. Even if there is the prospect that “it had to end at some point” there are so many different bits of nuance that could have been used rather than just throwing the baby out with the bath water. And it’s truly a shame because they had a truly great comic going on with this. A bad ending doesn’t necessarily ruin the story but an ending that renders the entire story pointless always does.

[Prof. Warren]

The irony being that in spite of Venom being depicted as a villain in most adaptations of the character and thus the picture of him being a villain becomes mainstream, they actually allow Venom to grow and change without reverting to factory default. Hell, until recently, the symbiote still has a grudge against Peter for abandoning it but even that it was allowed to grow past. Honestly, the concept of Status Quo is God is a terrible concept especially when it comes to a character’s growth. To reset the character any time they achieve growth is to just lock them in amber forever which, I’m sorry, makes the character grow stale especially when you’ve see the heights they can reach with a good story.

There's no reason good or even great stories can't be told with Otto going forward.

Just because he is a villain again doesn't mean that he is no longer a great character and that he can't have layers.

If anything, it's clear from this issue that his return to villainy isn't so cut and dried. I imagine that will play a part in any story with him in the future.

To have Ock return to being a bad guy but with more complexity than he had previously is fine by me and isn't simply a return to the old status quo.

What Superior Spider-Man did with its ending was one of the worst things that an ending can do, render the entire story pointless. It doesn’t leave me wanting to see what happens next for Otto and it definitely doesn’t make me want to go back and re-read Superior. It makes me feel like I wasted my time and money for following the series. I absolutely hated the concept of Superior the first time around but the execution of the series in this volume genuinely made me care about what was happening with the character and enjoy tuning in every month. Even if there is the prospect that “it had to end at some point” there are so many different bits of nuance that could have been used rather than just throwing the baby out with the bath water. And it’s truly a shame because they had a truly great comic going on with this. A bad ending doesn’t necessarily ruin the story but an ending that renders the entire story pointless always does.

This issue had plenty of nuance to Ock's portrayal. We see him struggling and making the difficult decision to cut ties with people that he clearly cared about.

It was an act of sacrifice on his part, and a noble one. The events of this issue certainly don't render everything that came before it "pointless." And it's made quite clear that they aren't "throwing the baby out with the bath water." This is all something that will stay with Otto, as much as he might try to suppress it.

[HypnoHustler]

Was there though?

Probably because adaptions still depict him as a villain 99.9% of the time. It's a byproduct of being one of The Big Three Spider-Man villains.

(I guess it's also because Venom sells better then SpOck).

Who are the other two? Green Goblin and Venom?

[Frontier]

Not the current one! Otto's actually being a hero in the Disney XD cartoon. Helped Peter in last weekend's episode, will be teaming up with the girls in an upcoming one.

I know. Never in all my years did I expect Otto to be Peter's "Guy in the Chair" .

Who are the other two? Green Goblin and Venom?

Yep.