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  1. #16
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    How about this. When the Amazons got to the Island few were pregnant, and some had boys. Why not have those amazons keep their baby boys and go to a near by Island?

  2. #17
    The Comixeur Mel Dyer's Avatar
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    It's easy to get swept up in Jason-hatred and blaming him for everything wrong in the comic, during the Robinson run. I think we have to be honest about some of that and how it really, REALLY soured us all one the idea of a male Amazon in the Wonder Family.

    Firstly, Jason is a brand new character, in a medium that typically doesn't suffer new characters, well. Jason had to come out of the gate blowing us away. His intro had to convince us that the comic was incomplete, without him...that we'd been waiting for him, up.to this point, but didn't know it! These things didn't happen.

    Secondly, Robinson clearly conceived him as the new OLYMPIAN, right down to the ram emblem on his armor and being raised and trained by Argonauts, ..but never called him that name in the comic. He even showed us Jason saving the current Olympian, a chap named Demetrios, from being gunned down by terrorists, which conceivably could have precipitated Jason claiming the mantle...it didn't. He even gave him a similar power set to the Olympian, through the armor, but did nothing with that.

    This, as I see it, may be his biggest failure. Jason is very obviously, the new Olympian. Why his creator wasn't bold enough or was too mysterious to get around to calling him that, only made me less confident in him...both of them.

    He gave us a superhero in a junky, cluttered costume, and took too long getting around to telling us why it was so. Without an easy to understand rationale for it, Jason's costume looked over-designed and silly, ..like Finchs Wonderverine outfit for Diana.

    Third...the sum of these bad parts gave us a new character, clearly intended to be taken for a superhero, with no superhero name and a stupid costume, and a family connection to the most famous comic superhero of all time. There's just so many legitimate reasons for us to outright reject him, ..I'm exhausted pondering them all.

    Robinson's writing of Jason did much to impair our ability to accept a male Amazon or a male lieutenant-hero for Wonder Woman. We had solidly legitimate reasons for rejecting Jason, and it's going to be that much harder to sell us that idea, again, because of this.
    Last edited by Mel Dyer; 11-01-2019 at 05:17 AM.
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  3. #18
    Wonder Moderator Gaelforce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Dyer View Post
    It's easy to get swept up in Jason-hatred and blaming him for everything wrong in the comic, during the Robinson run. I think we have to be honest about some of that and how it really, REALLY soured us all one the idea of a male Amazon in the Wonder Family.

    Firstly, Jason is a brand new character, in a medium that typically doesn't suffer new characters, well. Jason had to come out of the gate blowing us away. His intro had to convince us that the comic was incomplete, without him...that we'd been waiting for him, up.to this point, but didn't know it! These things didn't happen.

    Secondly, Robinson clearly conceived him as the new OLYMPIAN, right down to the ram emblem on his armor and being raised and trained by Argonauts, ..but never called him that name in the comic. He even showed us Jason saving the current Olympian, a chap named Demetrios, from being gunned down by terrorists, which conceivably could have precipitated Jason claiming the mantle...it didn't. He even gave him a similar power set to the Olympian, through the armor, but did nothing with that.

    This, as I see it, may be his biggest failure. Jason is very obviously, the new Olympian. Why his creator wasn't bold enough or was too mysterious to get around to calling him that, only made me less confident in him...both of them.

    He gave us a superhero in a junky, cluttered costume, and took too long getting around to telling us why it was so. Without an easy to understand rationale for it, Jason's costume looked over-designed and silly, ..like Finchs Wonderverine outfit for Diana.

    Third...the sum of these bad parts gave us a new character, clearly intended to be taken for a superhero, with no superhero name and a stupid costume, and a family connection to the most famous comic superhero of all time. There's just so many legitimate reasons for us to outright reject him, ..I'm exhausted pondering them all.

    Robinson's writing of Jason did much to impair our ability to accept a male Amazon or a male lieutenant-hero for Wonder Woman. We had solidly legitimate reasons for rejecting Jason, and it's going to be that much harder to sell us that idea, again, because of this.
    I beg to differ.

    Jason was a Mary Sue of epic proportions and Robinson admitted in an interview that he was more powerful than Wonder Woman. While Diana remained stagnant, Jason got more and more powers as the book went on. Instead of making him a new sidekick, he just kept piling up more on the character who announces such things such as that he is faster than Diana and had to carry her to a trouble spot.

    Whereas Diana gets strength, endurance, near invulnerability and flight, Jason gets those *and* power over wind/water. To add insult to injury, he gets the armor meant for her that literally gives him the power of every Greek god, no matter how obscure.

    Rather than take the time to have Diana mentor him, he mysteriously vanishes for a few weeks only to come back with a total mastery over his new abilities.

    Robinson also called WW fans 'strident', which didn't exactly endear him to the fanbase.

  4. #19
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    I have to say that people hate Jason much like how they hate the Azz Amazons. There was no reason to make him like that. He was made better than Diana. No one has issues for hunter. Jason was that one character who stole that place from Donna or Nubia

    Not only that but it makes Hippolyta weak and lessens Steve’s role. Now if some Amazons were to leave and live in a near by island okay. Hippolyta could have Jason and something happened to where they couldn’t be together so she sends him there and calls him but can’t physical see him okay. She isn’t abandoning him.
    Last edited by AmiMizuno; 11-01-2019 at 05:57 AM.

  5. #20
    The Comixeur Mel Dyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaelforce View Post
    I beg to differ.

    Jason was a Mary Sue of epic proportions and Robinson admitted in an interview that he was more powerful than Wonder Woman. While Diana remained stagnant, Jason got more and more powers as the book went on. Instead of making him a new sidekick, he just kept piling up more on the character who announces such things such as that he is faster than Diana and had to carry her to a trouble spot.

    Whereas Diana gets strength, endurance, near invulnerability and flight, Jason gets those *and* power over wind/water. To add insult to injury, he gets the armor meant for her that literally gives him the power of every Greek god, no matter how obscure.

    Rather than take the time to have Diana mentor him, he mysteriously vanishes for a few weeks only to come back with a total mastery over his new abilities.

    Robinson also called WW fans 'strident', which didn't exactly endear him to the fanbase.
    It doesn't sound to me, like you read my entire post. It sounds like you are agreeing with me and elaborating on one of my major points; that being our rejection of Jason, as male Wonder Woman. While I don't differ with anything you've said, and I read all of it, ..I don't think Jason's being more powerful, than Diana, is the hub of our community's problems with Jason - part of it, but, not the hub. Ultimately, we come to the same conclusion, that Jason was a bad 'Mr. Wonder', concept speaking.

    So, as much as I'd like to see Jason soft-rebooted and given a second chance, I would just as soon welcome the heroic Perez Hercules or Sensation hero, Sargon the Sorcerer, as Diana's honorary wonder-brother. I simply cannot easily trust a writer to give the WW comic, what other Silver and Golden Age writers so easily gave other DC superheroes. A proxy brother, who is already established and accepted by fans, versus a male Amazon, ..seems like the safer option, post-Jason.

    I think all of that Jason-trouble hurt any chance of a male Amazon being successcul, anytime, soon.

    Furthermore, Diana already has a male cousin, who is immortal, rules his own enchanted forest and is literally a male Amazon, ..and there hasn't been one writer who cared enough to give him a chance.
    Last edited by Mel Dyer; 11-01-2019 at 07:36 AM.
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  6. #21
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    It’s the fact he becomes this important characters. Outshining Diana for no reason. We have that too often recently. It was new 52 who made Ares and Zola too important than Diana herself l. Jason could easily be her brother in terms of bond not blood. He could have been wonder boy. But due the name too close to Boy wonder the might need a different name

  7. #22
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
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    The OP makes it sound like there were male Amazons before. My DC knowledge is pretty bad.

    As for Jason, Robinson kinda overdid it with boosting Jason up. Marvel's doing a better job with Arno Stark.
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  8. #23
    The Comixeur Mel Dyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    I have to say that people hate Jason much like how they hate the Azz Amazons. There was no reason to make him like that. He was made better than Diana. No one has issues for hunter. Jason was that one character who stole that place from Donna or Nubia

    Not only that but it makes Hippolyta weak and lessens Steve’s role. Now if some Amazons were to leave and live in a near by island okay. Hippolyta could have Jason and something happened to where they couldn’t be together so she sends him there and calls him but can’t physical see him okay. She isn’t abandoning him.
    As with Gaelforce, I don't see that we are disagreeing.

    I would elaborate on your point, by adding that I feel we saw too much of Jason, too soon, ..certainly, more than we asked. That, combined with what you and Gael expressed about his being more powerful, than Diana, left us feeling justifiably resentful of what role James Robinson intended for Jason, in the comic. While characters, like Jason, traditionally help the title hero do something superheroic, after a brief intro, exhibiting their usefulness to the hero, ..Jason's story swallowed the entire comic! While I may have listed more reasons for it, than you did, and I stand by every one of them, ..I think we have very legit reasons for passing on the Jason Special.

    Can we agree, very plainly, that Jason was a poorly written character. Even if you welcome the Mr. Wonder idea, Jason was a bad meeting of it.

    Now, back to the male Amazon thing. How do you think Jason's failure has affected our willingness to accept a male Amazon?

    Maybe, I'm wrong. A more direct approach that puts a man in a masculine version of the Wonder Woman costume, with similar powers, as with Captain Wonder, might be the most acceptable answer. If he completed in the Tournament of Wonder and won second or third place, winning a similar costume and title, he might be accepted by fans.

    CAPTAIN WONDER...not a dream, a freak accident or what if. Finally, for real.

    When you consider it, this the one thing, and maybe the simplest thing, that no writer has been bold enough to try.
    Last edited by Mel Dyer; 11-01-2019 at 09:43 AM.
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  9. #24
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    I feel that in a way Robison gave us a reason to care but also not care about Jason. He was taken away from his mother. Yet he is also rude and angry. Sometimes we didn't see coming. The guy Hippoltya gave Jason to seem like Jason would be different. Not only that but Jason also had Azz's run to come back from. He literally had the issue of All-male amazons died due to evil Amazons. So it's somewhat of a mix that we didn't want a male amazon right now.

    I don't know. The Banas have their own term for a champion. I think Jason should get his own special word for himself. He isn't Wonder boy. He needs to be both tied but independent to Diana. Like how Diana's daughter was hero name is Fury.

  10. #25
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Once DC manages to give us ten fleshed out Amazons, with a solid backstory that supports and embellishes Wonder Woman's character and themes, and they have been in place regularly for at least two or three years.

    Then I might consider allowing DC to introduce a male Amazon. If the proposal comes from the regular writer.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  11. #26
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Another thing is he shouldn’t be from a affair. Sure Hers can still be mad but I reject this whole Hippolyta is scared of Hera. Hippolyta has stood up and win against the Gods.

    Another question we have to ask is should the Amazons have children even before the male Amazons
    Last edited by AmiMizuno; 11-03-2019 at 01:09 PM.

  12. #27
    Boisterously Confused
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koriand'r View Post
    I'd hate it, it's pointless, it turns Themyscira into any other place in the world.
    Yup. I'm with Koriand'r. That's, literally, what the word Amazon does not mean.

    As far as WW lore, whether it's characterized as divine influence, or disciplined self-actualization, one of the elements of WW's core is that the Amazons tapped into and optimized the power of women. No need to muddy that water.
    Last edited by DrNewGod; 11-03-2019 at 01:52 PM.

  13. #28
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Why not have the Amazons have a place where both male and Amazons can meet. That Amazons who after Diana comes back. They want to at least have a place for the outside world and Amazons can meet

  14. #29
    Astonishing Member WonderScott's Avatar
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    Male Amazons is an oxymoron and completely unnecessary. Let the original concept stand on its own for the amazing concept it was for its time and continues to be for our time.

  15. #30
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    But if a Amazon does have a son should he just be a male? I mean what about hunter?

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