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  1. #46
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Really like who? We don’t need to have male Amazons but something close to it. They can be associated. With Banas since ever now and then we do see males in their homelands

    With paradise island there are some questions. Would they turn down a abused male or transwoman

  2. #47
    Ultimate Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    I feel that there are way too many heroes right now with Captian in their name. Why do we need Captain Wonder?
    Because the obvious name choice, Wonder Man, can't be used thanks to the Marvel character using that name.

  3. #48
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Which is why we should think about simple names. Wonder Boy honestly would be to close to Boy wonder. Wonder Girl people don’t mind that one. But if it’s a boy Diana has it can’t be that.

  4. #49
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    Male amazons are like dry water: they simply can not exist

  5. #50
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Since we know the Amazons had sons and husbands. The best bet is that maybe Ares or someone else resurrected the male spiuses and sons and they go by another name.

  6. #51
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    Since we know the Amazons had sons and husbands. The best bet is that maybe Ares or someone else resurrected the male spiuses and sons and they go by another name.
    Sorry, have to call a citation needed on that one, and ask according to whom and what sources?

    Because not all ancient Greek sources agree on how the Amazons lived, and nearly every modern take on the Amazons in Wonder Woman has them living without any contact with men.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  7. #52
    Unapologetic Feminist Shadowcat's Avatar
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    I think a capable writer creating the Gargareans could be a welcome addition to the mythology of the Amazons. Maybe agents of Ares, Apollo, or Hephaestus.

  8. #53
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    Sorry, have to call a citation needed on that one, and ask according to whom and what sources?

    Because not all ancient Greek sources agree on how the Amazons lived, and nearly every modern take on the Amazons in Wonder Woman has them living without any contact with men.
    In Wonder Woman. In terms of sources. The Amazons are based on Scythian. Who did have gender mix societies a few times. The Greeks did make terrible stories about the Amazons because they were women in many cases.


    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.new...al-amazons/amp

    Here is historical proof that the Amazons lived with men together.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowcat View Post
    I think a capable writer creating the Gargareans could be a welcome addition to the mythology of the Amazons. Maybe agents of Ares, Apollo, or Hephaestus.

    Maybe Ares since he disliked the Amazons. I feel Hephaestus might be more of an ally to the Amazons.
    Last edited by AmiMizuno; 11-19-2019 at 12:45 PM.

  9. #54
    The Comixeur Mel Dyer's Avatar
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    I think Gail got it right, giving us the Gargareans of Thalarion. They should have a champion, Captain Wonder, with his own magical weapons and similar powers to Diana's, who answers to Zeus, himself - still, a consort to Queen Hippolyta.

    Maybe, the Gargaraeans can be rebooted, with a different backstory. Perhaps, they were the army of Chronus, who, after failing to unseat the kingdoms, faithful to Zeus, ..were condemned to train on a mystical island and sire perfect children for the Amazons.

    Male Amazons, with the exception of Prince Jason and King Virbius, who have individual relevance to the Amazon mythos, just don't make easy sense...not, as a society of feminists. Comparatively speaking, I see no reason that a companion or brother race, complimentary to the Amazons in their martial focus, but, with-OUT the feminist element, ..couldn't be a fitting addition to the mythos.
    Last edited by Mel Dyer; 11-20-2019 at 04:05 AM.
    Look alive, Kangaliers!

  10. #55
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    In Wonder Woman. In terms of sources. The Amazons are based on Scythian. Who did have gender mix societies a few times. The Greeks did make terrible stories about the Amazons because they were women in many cases.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.new...al-amazons/amp

    Here is historical proof that the Amazons lived with men together.
    Interesting article, though I do note that little of it can be established as historical facts. It's more guesses—infromed ones—but we can't really say anything with certainty about the historical Amazons. Which were interpreted by the highly androcentric ancient Greek culture, and has continued to be interpreted and reinterpreted throughout history.

    So to me, "just because it was so in the myth" or "just because it was so in history" doesn't hold water as arguments. Wonder Woman's Amazons is another take on the idea of a group of women warriors, combined with the idea of a utopian all-femal society.

    Do I object to every attempt to add men to that story? No. But I firmly believe that the idea of Wonder Woman's Amazons rests on it being a society of only women, and that any element added to it must be approached from that viewpoint.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  11. #56
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    I mean with the fact there are both myths and a few historical evidence that Amazons or at least other warrior women tribes did have egalitarian society. There are myths were there are just a all male tribe. Them and the Amazons were known to have relations. So we can have that in the myths. And Ares uses the men to get to the Amazons weapons. All the men are died and the Amazons. They don’t want to go back due to being back both due to certain men using violent and the fact they had to make a tough decision. I feel that a mix of reasons they don’t want to return. That their brothers and husbands can’t be revive. Ares took their souls.

  12. #57
    Fantastic Member Astroman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    Interesting article, though I do note that little of it can be established as historical facts. It's more guesses—infromed ones—but we can't really say anything with certainty about the historical Amazons. Which were interpreted by the highly androcentric ancient Greek culture, and has continued to be interpreted and reinterpreted throughout history.
    I would recommend actually reading Mayor's book and other publications. There is a lot more modern evidence that supports this to be a more-than-likely probability and more than just a 'guess'. A "New Yorker" article can't do the research justice.

    Seriously, her work is absolutely fantastic and fairly accessible, as far as dense academic work goes.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrienne_Mayor

  13. #58
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    While obviously interesting, and could probably give some inspiration to the right writers for some out-of-continuity stories, I'm not sure why it's relevant to the Wonder Woman of today.

    I'm sure there are bits and pieces that could be taken up (I'd love to see the Amazons in similar outfits as shown on Greek vases, or whatever the archeological record might show), the Wonder Woman Amazons are at least two steps removed from the tribes that the Greek dubbed Amazons.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  14. #59
    Fantastic Member Astroman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    While obviously interesting, and could probably give some inspiration to the right writers for some out-of-continuity stories, I'm not sure why it's relevant to the Wonder Woman of today.
    It's not necessarily relevant. But, Animizuno argued the historical precedent. You then asked for sources and citations. Animizuno provided it. You doubted the work. I was only supporting a scholar I am familiar with and who's work is actually really stellar. It bugs me when people dismiss an academic's work without reading it - that's all.

    I don't particularly want, or don't want, to see male Amazons in WW. It would depend on the approach. And Mayor's work would be a solid basis for such a thing if someone did want to try it.

  15. #60
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    That the amazons did have male amazons. But they all died. Ares stole their souls and the Amazons male families can never be freed. They are under Ares control. So for me, there are a few reasons to why the Amazons don't want men on the Island.

    1. Due to what happened to them. Some of the males were working under Ares and abused the Amazons.
    2. Ares has a influence over any male who enters the Island.

    I think it's fair to give a mixed reason. To combat this influnce an amazon's blessing is needed. They also have the doom gate to worry about.

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