DC: Diverse or Dumb?

[Tenzel Kim]

Comic books stores will buy a book if they see a demand for a book.

I don't know why do you think it is necessary to eliminate them.

The need to eliminate them comes from the fact that the demand isn't big enough. For the books to survive you need enough people to support them and unfortunately that has more often than not not been the case. Unless you have enough support and sales it just isn't economically viable to keep doing the books.

At least they keep trying to see if they might succeed. One can always question if they are doing enough to promote these books as it is always hard to build a market when you don't already have a good grip on the demographic that you want to reach.

[Desmark]

Apparently Superman, Batman, Flash and Green lantern are dumb unless they are black.

[j9ac9k]

The tops ones, imo:
Wonder Woman
Batwoman
Harley Quinn
Blue Beetle (Jaime)
Green Lanterns
Suicide Squad (Waller's been front-and-center in every incarnation since Crisis)

[lemonpeace]

Apparently Superman, Batman, Flash and Green lantern are dumb unless they are black.

yes, OBVIOUSLY, that is what this thread is really about; the white characters.


/s

[lemonpeace]

Rebirth's Green Lanterns during the 1st half as written by Sam Humphries. Not so much after he left, but it was excellent prior. It did wonders for both Lebanese-American Simon Baz and Hispanic-American Jessica Cruz, as heroes, as a duo and on personal. familial levels. Simon's New 52 origin and backstory was also well done.

People cite David Walker's DCYou run on Cyborg, but I also extend that into John Semper Jr.'s run in Rebirth. Both writers provided things for Cyborg that he needed, in spite of any constraints they likely had while doing so. I'd say the definitive version of modern Cyborg lies between the culmination of these two runs (and maybe early Justice League: Odyssey). Honorable mention to Kevin Grevioux's short 2-something issue contribution.

We Are Robin for Duke and his compatriots (of their team of 5 throughout the majority of its run, there were 3 different persons of color), and Batman and the Signal for Duke in particular, as short-lived as the latter was.

New-Superman, and by extension, its natural evolution of New-Superman and the Justice League of China. This book written by Gene Luen Yang was superb. It lasted for a time compared to some of its contemporaries, but it was still most certainly short-lived. It deserved to be a perpetual mainstay, as far as I am concerned, doing its thing and expanding the team's influence and resume.

Jaime Reyes' Blue Beetle. I found something to enjoy in most of his runs, and his first, pre-Flashpoint one is often remembered fondly for how it fleshed out Jaime and his immediately family and friendgroup (Paco and Brenda).

The New 52's Firestorm Nuclear Men, prior to the re-tool halfway that "went more traditional), was excellent in my eyes. It was adding to the Firestorm mythos while being excellent studies for both Jason and Ronnie. Jason was at his peak then; he was superbly smart and studious, but he was proactive (not passive, though he still had his doubts and worries) and didn't take mess from anyone, not even Ronnie in his more "jock-ier" moments (young man was woke). It helped that both could become their own Firestorm, again, before the re-tool.

While also short-lived and not some kind of explicit study on diversity, I loved Scott Lobdell's Doomed, which featured a lead of color (never did have the time to explore Reiser's ethnic background), along with a subplot with his roommate who was gay and was dealing with a superpowered form he couldn't control of his own. Then there was Reiser's love interest, who we couldn't delve into as far as her true role was concerned.

These are what come to mind for me for now, but there were other series that were diverse in their leads and stories that I enjoyed (Midnighter was fun, and I loved Batman and Robin: Eternal, for a couple of quick examples). If more come to mind, I'll probably post them then.

Green Lanterns (until the ending which literally fills me with rage), New-Superman, and Blue Beetle were great; some of my favorite books from DC. I personally love Duke Thomas as a character so We are Robin and Batman & the Signal are close to my heart, but I wouldn't say they could be seen as the best DC has to offer. I've never read Mightnighter but Midnighter & Apollo was one of my first full comic runs and i still say it's still at least in my top 10 to this day.they moved Midghter and Apollo back to the Wildstorm universe, even though they technically still exist in the DC universe iirc, they actually fit in the DC universe pretty well imo. it kinda sucks that I haven't checked out Doomed or Firestorm but you've definitely piqued my interest.

[The_Lurk]

I like Batwoman and Cyborg. Even though the name implies it I like that BW is her own thing and not just Batman with boobs.

My impression was that at this department DC (comics) is miles ahead of Marvel though. Not really reading much marvel, but ppl I talk to complain a lot (one of them sells comics for a living and had to cut down some traditional bigger running Marvel series because of that so I assumed there is something to it).

Apparently Superman, Batman, Flash and Green lantern are dumb unless they are black.

GLs area corps made of different people working side by side (at least these days ...mostly). Besides that my impression is that the OP want that specifically not. Original diverse characters instead of some dumb pandering/tokenizations.

[9th.]

They still got made.
They was an effort made with them.
Other companies have had short run books and no one is the different.

It's not that folks don't give a damn it's getting to a point of more variety is needed. Variety does not mean everybody gets an ongoing. Minis and one shots and OGN are FINE.

In fact the main issue for those books are comic book stores. Maybe taking that pout of the equation will fix things and that is when you look at OGNs. See Raven & Beast Boy.

Scalped from Vertigo is a better book at 60 issues than others that had longer runs.
Jaime Reyes's first Blue Beetle run is another good one at 36 issues.
Shade the Changling Girl/Woman runs were good.
Man of War Grave Digger (70s run)
Unknown Solider (last run that took place in Africa)
Young Animal Doom Patrol
Millennium Fever (vertigo)
American Way







I think the reason for that is ACCESS. A lot of books with POC at DC are NOT in trades now.

Marvel with the exception of a few due to books like Marvel 2 in 1-don't have that issue. Miles, Patriot (both), Riri, Moon Girl & Prodigy are the only black ones with every appearance in someone's trades.

DC-Duke, Luke Fox, Wallace & Silencer are it. Cyborg might have 1-2 things not in trade. Vixen & John have a ton since most of Action Comics Weekly is not in trade. Steel has an entire run.

Dc Showcase 93-95 did a good job. Sadly none of that is in trade.

This is exactly why I will never fault Marvel for trying, Vixen would've had a book if she was Marvel character.

[The_Lurk]

This is exactly why I will never fault Marvel for trying, Vixen would've had a book if she was Marvel character.

https://www.amazon.com/Vixen-Return-.../dp/1401225128

Its a pretty nice read. Also ties a bit into Final Crisis (can be read without, but knowing what comes gives a nice chill). I guess it did not sold that well and IMO they should give her another shot but they did tried.

[9th.]

https://www.amazon.com/Vixen-Return-.../dp/1401225128

Its a pretty nice read. Also ties a bit into Final Crisis (can be read without, but knowing what comes gives a nice chill). I guess it did not sold that well and IMO they should give her another shot but they did tried.

I have this in my collection but I feel like she wouldn't gotten more chances at Marvel, Riri is extremely hated and she has 2 titles and a team book (well one if you don't count her feature in Ironman)

[LP22]

Didn't realize there was white privilege in the DCU

[Aahz]

Gotham Central - especially the Renee Montoya stories, but there were a lot of other diverse characters in that book

[Vordan]

Gotham Central
New Super-Man
Terrifics
Swamp Thing
Hellblazer
Green Lanterns
Dial H - Probably one of my all time favorite books right now
Silencer - I loved it
Batwoman (Kate Kane) by Rucka and JHWIII
Tec by Tynion was great and featured Luke and Cass
The original Giffen Jaime Reyes Blue Beetle run
Morrison Doom Patrol
Midnighter by Orlando

If we can count Vertigo as DC then yeah DC blows Marvel out of the water with stuff like Scalped.

[The_Lurk]

I have this in my collection but I feel like she wouldn't gotten more chances at Marvel, Riri is extremely hated and she has 2 titles and a team book (well one if you don't count her feature in Ironman)

Had read up on her (Riri). So... shes the new Iron Man? Yeah, I can imagine that not going well. Fans of the material of a specific character are fans of that character. Taking someone completely different, giving him or her the name of the established character does not make that character; its still someone completely different just with the same name. With the difference that fans of the established character see the new one as the thing that killed the character they liked; even worse a character which has just been established in the same year (if the Wiki is right). Does not matter if shes a young, slim black girl or a fat old white man. Unless its not a clone of Tony Stark its the one that killed him. Can kind of relate as fan of Power Girl; although in her case DC always appears to be to afraid to continue a run with her but did not much with the new one either outside having her hang out with gang Deathstroke and now being adrift somewhere in limbo with the original (like literally).

I'm not sure if there was much backlash when Dick became Batman after he died though; but then again he had decades of development as part of Batmans family. Maybe they (Marvel and DC alike) should make more long time development plans instead of "here you go with the new character nobody knows; suck it up".

But back to Riri. Besides the hate she got from the IM fans she probably had build a solid fanbase of her own; otherwise I have a hard time how Marvel could explain 2 series and a teambook. IIRC only Batman and Superman have a 2 series and a teambook treatment in DC. Not even Wonder Woman has that (she has 2 teams though currently).

[Aahz]

I'm not sure if there was much backlash when Dick became Batman after he died though; but then again he had decades of development as part of Batmans family. Maybe they (Marvel and DC alike) should make more long time development plans instead of "here you go with the new character nobody knows; suck it up".

Dick as Batman is more like Falcon or Bucky becoming Captain America or War Mashine becoming Iron Man, these are characters the were it feels more organic when they take up the mantle, so there is not such a big backlash by the fans.

[Lightning Rider]

https://www.amazon.com/Vixen-Return-.../dp/1401225128

Its a pretty nice read. Also ties a bit into Final Crisis (can be read without, but knowing what comes gives a nice chill). I guess it did not sold that well and IMO they should give her another shot but they did tried.

I enjoyed that