DC: Diverse or Dumb?

[9th.]

Had read up on her (Riri). So... shes the new Iron Man? Yeah, I can imagine that not going well. Fans of the material of a specific character are fans of that character. Taking someone completely different, giving him or her the name of the established character does not make that character; its still someone completely different just with the same name. With the difference that fans of the established character see the new one as the thing that killed the character they liked; even worse a character which has just been established in the same year (if the Wiki is right). Does not matter if shes a young, slim black girl or a fat old white man. Unless its not a clone of Tony Stark its the one that killed him. Can kind of relate as fan of Power Girl; although in her case DC always appears to be to afraid to continue a run with her but did not much with the new one either outside having her hang out with gang Deathstroke and now being adrift somewhere in limbo with the original (like literally).

I'm not sure if there was much backlash when Dick became Batman after he died though; but then again he had decades of development as part of Batmans family. Maybe they (Marvel and DC alike) should make more long time development plans instead of "here you go with the new character nobody knows; suck it up".

But back to Riri. Besides the hate she got from the IM fans she probably had build a solid fanbase of her own; otherwise I have a hard time how Marvel could explain 2 series and a teambook. IIRC only Batman and Superman have a 2 series and a teambook treatment in DC. Not even Wonder Woman has that (she has 2 teams though currently).

Nah she was never IM, she has her own name which is Ironheart. She did replace him in his book for a while after his death but the only one who took his name was Doom (which received no where near the amount of backlash Riri got.) All of her books were recently cancelled iirc but she has mini coming next year.

[skyvolt2000]

https://www.amazon.com/Vixen-Return-.../dp/1401225128

Its a pretty nice read. Also ties a bit into Final Crisis (can be read without, but knowing what comes gives a nice chill). I guess it did not sold that well and IMO they should give her another shot but they did tried.

It was actual cut short an issue. I think. One of the covers to the floppies implied a 6 issue run. I have to check to make sure.

Had read up on her (Riri). So... shes the new Iron Man?

Unlike Doom she never called herself Ironman. Despite claims otherwise. Funny Doom never got attacked.

If we can count Vertigo as DC then yeah DC blows Marvel out of the water with stuff like Scalped.

It's not even a contest. Scalped is a master class with honorable mention to 100 Bullets, Unknown Soldier & American Way.

Comic books stores will buy a book if they see a demand for a book.
I don't know why do you think it is necessary to eliminate them.

Not all of them. Some just don't want certain books (Archie will tell you that)

Others has issues ordering books. Scout Comics has had issues getting books to stores and Diamond has issue putting those titles on order lists.

Book availability-some companies don't make every book available to order. Dc has done with some titles. A demand was there but no copies were made. It's why you see books at blood money prices when they have NO business being that. Around here a book with Static starts at $30. For some reason.

I loved Scott Lobdell's Doomed, which featured a lead of color (never did have the time to explore Reiser's ethnic background), along with a subplot with his roommate who was gay and was dealing with a superpowered form he couldn't control of his own. Then there was Reiser's love interest, who we couldn't delve into as far as her true role was concerned.

What race was he? Teen Titans did no favor to him by making him look like a Vulcan & a mouse.

My impression was that at this department DC (comics) is miles ahead of Marvel though.

It depends on what you are looking for. If you take into consideration solos, minis, story arcs and one shots.
For simplicity lets use black folks solo series for this-(off the top of my head mind you)

Steel has 52 solo issues.
Jason Rusch has 56 (counting co-lead with Ronnie).
John Stewart at 18
Black Lighting at 32(ish)
Cyborg at 38
Batwing is 44
Solos/Mini/one shot-Voodoo, Xero, Naomi, Silencer, Tattoo Man, Mister Terrific, Vixen, Orpheus, Duke Thomas, Michael Lane, Bloodwynd & Bronze Tiger (sort of)
Total 18. Honorable mentions to Amazing Man 1 & 2, Dr Midnight, Crimson Avenger 2, Jakeem Thundar, Black Spider, Hotspot, Tyrco, Invisible Kid, Kid Quantum & Blindslide-who had story arcs as leads or an entire issue devoted to them in books.

Marvel
Luke Cage & Panther are over 150.
Miles goes over 100 next year.
War Machine is at 40-50
Falcon at 40-45
Moon Girl is at 47
Solo/Mini/one shot-Storm, Brother Voodoo, Prowler, Nightmask, Spider Punk, another Spider-Man, Nighthawk, Midnight Angels, Riri, Shuri, Deathlok 2, Deathlok 3, Bishop, Cloak, Night Thrasher, Nick Fury, Spectrum, Wildstreak, Nightwatch, Eli Bradley, Blade, Black Goliath, Black Goliath 2 (sort of), Rocket Racer (Marvel had Tony Isabella write backups for him and tossed those in random books) & Blue Marvel.
Total-31. Honorable mentions to Prodigy, Monet, Robbie Robertson, Synch & Flint-who all had the lead in story arcs in books.

DC does more spotlight and story arc in a team book.
Marvel goes for a series and a trade.

[The_Lurk]

It was actual cut short an issue. I think. One of the covers to the floppies implied a 6 issue run. I have to check to make sure.




Unlike Doom she never called herself Ironman. Despite claims otherwise. Funny Doom never got attacked.




It's not even a contest. Scalped is a master class with honorable mention to 100 Bullets, Unknown Soldier & American Way.




Not all of them. Some just don't want certain books (Archie will tell you that)

Others has issues ordering books. Scout Comics has had issues getting books to stores and Diamond has issue putting those titles on order lists.

Book availability-some companies don't make every book available to order. Dc has done with some titles. A demand was there but no copies were made. It's why you see books at blood money prices when they have NO business being that. Around here a book with Static starts at $30. For some reason.



What race was he? Teen Titans did no favor to him by making him look like a Vulcan & a mouse.



It depends on what you are looking for. If you take into consideration solos, minis, story arcs and one shots.
For simplicity lets use black folks solo series for this-(off the top of my head mind you)

Steel has 52 solo issues.
Jason Rusch has 56 (counting co-lead with Ronnie).
John Stewart at 18
Black Lighting at 32(ish)
Cyborg at 38
Batwing is 44
Solos/Mini/one shot-Voodoo, Xero, Naomi, Silencer, Tattoo Man, Mister Terrific, Vixen, Orpheus, Duke Thomas, Michael Lane, Bloodwynd & Bronze Tiger (sort of)
Total 18. Honorable mentions to Amazing Man 1 & 2, Dr Midnight, Crimson Avenger 2, Jakeem Thundar, Black Spider, Hotspot, Tyrco, Invisible Kid, Kid Quantum & Blindslide-who had story arcs as leads or an entire issue devoted to them in books.

Marvel
Luke Cage & Panther are over 150.
Miles goes over 100 next year.
War Machine is at 40-50
Falcon at 40-45
Moon Girl is at 47
Solo/Mini/one shot-Storm, Brother Voodoo, Prowler, Nightmask, Spider Punk, another Spider-Man, Nighthawk, Midnight Angels, Riri, Shuri, Deathlok 2, Deathlok 3, Bishop, Cloak, Night Thrasher, Nick Fury, Spectrum, Wildstreak, Nightwatch, Eli Bradley, Blade, Black Goliath, Black Goliath 2 (sort of), Rocket Racer (Marvel had Tony Isabella write backups for him and tossed those in random books) & Blue Marvel.
Total-31. Honorable mentions to Prodigy, Monet, Robbie Robertson, Synch & Flint-who all had the lead in story arcs in books.

DC does more spotlight and story arc in a team book.
Marvel goes for a series and a trade.

I was thinking in less black & white only terms when I wrote that

Like that awesome run:

[Aahz]

Batwing is 44

Not if you count both Batwings (David and Luke) separately.

[kjn]

A different kind of diversity than originally asked for, but Birds of Prey during Dixon's and Simone's runs. The continuing need to re-educate artists on how to draw Babs's wheelchair is just one point in evidence.

[kurenai24]

Hmm, I personally don't remember seeing any minority focused books at DC outside of Cyborg, Blue Beetle, Batwoman, Cass Cain ongoings and the Black Lightning and The Signal minis (not counting imprints as they feel othering) and I personally wouldn't be singing any praises about those except Cass book.

I did like the Vixen mini that DC did years back, I wouldn't say it was the all time best, but it was good for what it was.

Nah she was never IM, she has her own name which is Ironheart. She did replace him in his book for a while after his death but the only one who took his name was Doom (which received no where near the amount of backlash Riri got.) All of her books were recently cancelled iirc but she has mini coming next year.

Yep, and to slightly build off this, almost since inception it was known Riri was gonna be referred to as Ironheart. The hate for the character stemmed from Tony dying (even though it was obvious he would be brought back) and leading the Iron Man book, Bendis creating her which as we all know he has his own hatedom (and he's associated/blamed for all things diversity so yes race was at play), and her being a female character who knew she was the s**t and was building to have an ego as big as Tony's when she got older.

I also hope Ewing is not writing that mini, need more autistic-coded Riri (Bendis) and less generic geek girl Riri (Ewing).

A different kind of diversity than originally asked for, but Birds of Prey during Dixon's and Simone's runs. The continuing need to re-educate artists on how to draw Babs's wheelchair is just one point in evidence.

DC really had a physically disabled character at the forefront of the company and they took it right back smh.

ETA: Left the tab open and realized I totally forgot and blanked out about some characters.

[BroHomo]

Dayyyyyum this list is pretty skimpy....
Smh DC....smdh

[J. D. Guy]

I have this in my collection but I feel like she wouldn't gotten more chances at Marvel, Riri is extremely hated and she has 2 titles and a team book (well one if you don't count her feature in Ironman)

I wouldn't say that "Riri is extremely hated", but rather that "Riri's haters hate her extremely". She's quite the breakout character who definitely has her fans and audience. But she also has her haters, too, they are loud and tend to dominate (read: prevent) the conversation of her character. That is to say, there's hate for her, but it's more vocal and loud, and in turn negatively sensationalized.

[J. D. Guy]

What race was he? Teen Titans did no favor to him by making him look like a Vulcan & a mouse.

As mentioned Reiser's ethnicity and ethnic background was never explored in the short 5 issue-run. We never got a last name, either, far as I recall, and the only relations we saw of him was his Aunt. I'd need to re-read the series, but I don't think that was enough to gauge anything. As well, I cannot place the ethnic origins of the Reiser's name, personally.

Like, and pardon my blind guessing, as that is all to go from, but Middle-Eastern or South-west Asian descent? I really don't know.

[skyvolt2000]

As mentioned Reiser's ethnicity and ethnic background was never explored in the short 5 issue-run. We never got a last name, either, far as I recall, and the only relations we saw of him was his Aunt. I'd need to re-read the series, but I don't think that was enough to gauge anything. As well, I cannot place the ethnic origins of the Reiser's name, personally.

Like, and pardon my blind guessing, as that is all to go from, but Middle-Eastern or South-west Asian descent? I really don't know.

That what I thought.

That is to say, there's hate for her, but it's more vocal and loud, and in turn negatively sensationalized.

To her credit Eve Ewing nipped a lot of that hate with her first issue. I saw gator websites actual praise her and even encourage folks to support the book.

[Triniking1234]

I'm not sure who has more "diverse" characters but I know the DC ones are more mainstream.

[BroHomo]

I'm not sure who has more "diverse" characters but I know the DC ones are more mainstream.

Looked who?Black Panther Shuri are common known heros now...Storm...Blade. What DC 'diverse' hero is more mainstream?

[Triniking1234]

Looked who?Black Panther Shuri are common known heros now...Storm...Blade. What DC 'diverse' hero is more mainstream?

Wonder Woman
Kyle Rayner
John Stewart
Jessica Cruz
Black Lightning
Cyborg
Mister Terrific
Kate Kane
Cassandra Cain
Damian Wayne

wew. need a break.

[jetengine]

It really didnt help riris case that her first hero appearance is wearing armour cobbled together from stolen science projects and she knocks over a van in such a way that it's reasonable to assume its occupants were dead.

[Restingvoice]

Define "better"
more popular?
longer running? staying power?