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  1. #466
    Mighty Member Veitha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
    Him doubling down on the “M Word” speech by having everyone on the team “own” Sunfire and Rogue and treat them like they were the main problem was...........something that happened. I actually want to know what Remender thinks about mutant culture and unity being a thing and Havok embracing it fully. Especially since he’s a writer who loves breaking shit.

    This was soo bad. Plus he depicted Rogue as the dumb mutie/minority member that can only scream in rage while the Pretender mutant had all the right answers. Ugh.

  2. #467
    Astonishing Member LordUltimus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoCoBandz View Post
    Gross so gross.

    Then she damn near had an orgasm when she found out she wasn't a mutant to boot.
    Well, it was more about being Magneto's kid. And she was under mind control at the time. If not, then we're left to assume Rogue loves assaulting humans with no provocation. Unless there was something after that initial story.

    I think part of the problem is that Rick Remender is of the opinion that superpowers would lead to evil people taking over the world and using normals as playthings - this is the guy who's independant work involves the Superman expy accidentally causing the apocalypse and villains carving out territory with the heroes almost completley ineffectual. None of that is necessarily incorrect, obviously, but it seems like he's more sympathetic to the idea that mutants need to be controlled for the sake of society.

  3. #468
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordUltimus View Post
    Well, it was more about being Magneto's kid. And she was under mind control at the time. If not, then we're left to assume Rogue loves assaulting humans with no provocation. Unless there was something after that initial story.

    I think part of the problem is that Rick Remender is of the opinion that superpowers would lead to evil people taking over the world and using normals as playthings - this is the guy who's independant work involves the Superman expy accidentally causing the apocalypse and villains carving out territory with the heroes almost completley ineffectual. None of that is necessarily incorrect, obviously, but it seems like he's more sympathetic to the idea that mutants need to be controlled for the sake of society.

    Yeah, Remender is not the guy for classic superhero stuff, his forte is in writing assholes or morally questionable people.
    "Wow. You made Spider-Man sad, congratulations. I stabbed The Hulk last week"
    Wolverine, Venom Annual # 1 (2018)
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  4. #469
    Mighty Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    I think this is one of the cases where marvel messes up trying to tell the reader what they should or must understand of the story instead of symply showing it, during this time marvel was hell bent on making the X-men an unreasonable group lead by a zealot Cyclops that have become militant for no reason, while having a lot of secret ops attacks from international corporations on their home almost daily on the X-men comics, all this just makes Wanda, Havok and the Avengers sound extremely ignorant of the real situation of mutants in the MU but I would not hold it agaist the characters. When you have a literal poisonous gas going around killing a particular groups of characters and your narrative still points to the victims as the bad, unreasonable ppl, its the creative team the one whos failing badly imo.
    Last edited by Lucyinthesky; 11-03-2019 at 10:01 AM.
    "The time for subtlety is passing. Now is the time for change." [New Mutants (Vol. 1) #38]

  5. #470
    Astonishing Member LordUltimus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyinthesky View Post
    I think this is one of the cases where marvel messes up trying to tell the reader what they should or must understand of the story instead of symply showing it, during this time marvel was hell bent on making the X-men an unreasonable group lead by a zealot Cyclops that have become militant for no reason, while having a lot of secret ops attacks from international corporations on their home almost daily on the X-men comics, all this just makes Wanda, Havok and the Avengers sound extremely ignorant of the real situation of mutants in the MU but I would not hold it agaist the characters. When you have a literal poisonous gas going around killing a particular groups of characters and your narrative still points to the victims as the bad, unreasonable ppl, its the creative team the one whos failing badly imo.
    Remember back when Cyclops did something so bad even his younger self thought he was as bad as Hitler, except the editor's didn't tell the writers what it actually was?

  6. #471
    Astonishing Member CoCoBandz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordUltimus View Post
    Remember back when Cyclops did something so bad even his younger self thought he was as bad as Hitler, except the editor's didn't tell the writers what it actually was?
    That awful thing turning out to be him dying in a fart cloud was meme worthy.

    Like how could they be so stupid as to let that go to print after all those months??

  7. #472
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    I don't think Uncanny Avengers Wanda was out of character for 1980s to 2003 Wanda. I do think Children's Crusade wanted to give her a different deeper prospective post Decimation, but RR reverted her to the old days of being angry and judgmental.

    She blamed Magneto and his mutant rights crusade for destroying her life and viewed the Avengers, hating Magneto with ever fiber of her being and shedding her mutant identity as a way to atone for her sort stint in the Brotherhood.

    Wanda’s reaction formation to her Brotherhood days has long been a key driver in her psychology.

    Last edited by jmc247; 11-03-2019 at 10:35 AM.

  8. #473
    Astonishing Member CoCoBandz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmc247 View Post
    I don't think Uncanny Avengers Wanda was out of character for 1980s to 2003 Wanda. I do think Children's Crusade wanted to give her a different deeper prospective, but RR reverted her to the old days of being angry and judgmental. She blamed Magneto and the mutant rights fight for destroying her life and viewed the Avengers, hating Magneto with ever fiber of her being and shedding her mutant identity as a way to atone for her sort stint in the Brotherhood.
    Epitome of a self-hating, buck-dancing fool.

  9. #474
    Extraordinary Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoCoBandz View Post
    That awful thing turning out to be him dying in a fart cloud was meme worthy.

    Like how could they be so stupid as to let that go to print after all those months??
    That was a bad decision, after months saying Cyclops did a horrible things turned out it was nothing

  10. #475
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    I don’t think Remender’s Wanda was all that OOC either. Her deep resentment for mutantkind goes way back. I do think he took it too far and bungled that run, and I like a lot of his work.

  11. #476
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    Quote Originally Posted by powerpax View Post
    I don’t think Remender’s Wanda was all that OOC either. Her deep resentment for mutantkind goes way back. I do think he took it too far and bungled that run, and I like a lot of his work.
    Yes, he took it too far. Wanda did have a deep resentment of the idea of 'mutant' and 'fighting for mutant rights' owing to seeing it through the prism of what Magneto believes in and what he convinced her to do when she was a teenager. But, still he made it such a central point to generate conflict it actually tore down Wanda's character who was on thin ice with a lot of x-fans after Decimation.

    For those who had sympathy for her before that he erased that returning her to her 90s attitude on steroids in regards to mutants. That didn't go down well as they still blamed her for Decimation regardless of him writing over and over again that Doom masterminded Decimation.

  12. #477
    Mighty Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordUltimus View Post
    Remember back when Cyclops did something so bad even his younger self thought he was as bad as Hitler, except the editor's didn't tell the writers what it actually was?
    Yes,"rolls eyes" I am still wondering what was marvel thinking :/
    "The time for subtlety is passing. Now is the time for change." [New Mutants (Vol. 1) #38]

  13. #478
    Incredible Member zinderel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tycon View Post
    Him doubling down on the “M Word” speech by having everyone on the team “own” Sunfire and Rogue and treat them like they were the main problem was...........something that happened. I actually want to know what Remender thinks about mutant culture and unity being a thing and Havok embracing it fully. Especially since he’s a writer who loves breaking shit.

    Am...am I misreading this? Did this writer just say that ‘romani’ is just a religion...?

    Also, I like how Wanda says mutants have no culture to unite them, here. Which was true in the early days, when mutants were few and far between. But as more mutants were born/‘erupted’ and they began gathering together, you DID have the seeds of cultures being born. Morlocks. The X-Men and their all-important human assimilation ideals. Magneto and his separatist Acolytes. And then, mutant population reached critical mass, and mutant performers like Dazzler went public. And designers like Jumbo Carnation got recognition. Genosha establishes schools and was working on rebuilding infrastructure to provide a homeland for mutants to call their own.

    And in the face of this, organizations like Friends of Humanity and the Purifiers saw their memberships SOAR. They also got access to some devastating tech from ‘concerned’ backers. And then, Jumbo Carnation got assassinated and Genosha got eradicated while Wanda and her Avengers buddies did nothing but fight amongst themselves. Mutant culture was smothered in it’s crib. And then Wanda shot that baby on M-Day. And then the Purifiers set it on fire. And then human agents and ‘advocates’ blew up that baby’s home a few times. And then the Inhumans gassed it for a while, all the while blaming the baby for not respecting their holy toxins. And then it got shot a few more times by humans and their advocates and allies.

    Not all humans, but enough that every massive mutant die off comes at the hands of one human or another, or a human offshoot. No mutant has done so much carnage to mutantkind as humans have. Except maybe Wanda...

    And now, we have Krakoa, a mutant homeland. And the birth of a language, the creation of an economy, and the rise of a culture. And to do so, they are wary and defensive about their homeland when it comes to humans. They make big displays and use rhetoric to intimidate their enemies and make them think twice about further attacks.

    And some people still say that mutants are big ol meanies and see this as a bad thing...
    Last edited by zinderel; 11-03-2019 at 06:53 PM.

  14. #479
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinderel View Post
    Am...am I misreading this? Did this writer just say that ‘romani’ is just a religion...?
    If u disagree with his take on the topic, he also said you should commit.

  15. #480
    Chris-chan of X-fans Maestroneto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinderel View Post
    Am...am I misreading this? Did this writer just say that ‘romani’ is just a religion...?

    Also, I like how Wanda says mutants have no culture to unite them, here. Never mind that the reason they don’t is because people like Jumbo Carnation got assassinated and Genosha got eradicated while Wanda and her Avengers buddies did nothing. Mutant culture was smothered in it’s crib and then shot. And then it was gassed for a while. And then it got shot a few more times.

    And now, we have Krakoa. And the birth of a language, the creation of an economy, and the rise of a culture. And some people still only see this as a bad thing...
    Tom Brevoort made it worse when defending that when he said that it was supposed to say Jewish religion rather than Romani.

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