Off Panel interview with Hickman

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

Sounds like a nightmare of a book.

Wait, I'm confused, what was wrong with that? I read that special; Dazzler wasn't trying to appeal to the "All lives matter" crowd (as in, the one's who use that statement just to keep others down,) she was just preaching solidarity between two people's like, I thought she was trying to preach inter-sectionalist rights?

[PrezValentine]

Wait, I'm confused, what was wrong with that? I read that special; Dazzler wasn't trying to appeal to the "All lives matter" crowd (as in, the one's who use that statement just to keep others down,) she was just preaching solidarity between two people's like, I thought she was trying to preach inter-sectionalist rights?

Yeah, no. Can't try to make the mutants look like villains after an year plus of them being kicked down in favor of the inhumans, who were portrayed as the poor little victims.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

Yeah, no. Can't try to make the mutants look like villains after an year plus of them being kicked down in favor of the inhumans, who were portrayed as the poor little victims.

But it was just one group of them? Just to show that, ya know, ya got arseholes in every crowd, much like there is in the Inhumans group? But then by showing the equal, if not greater overlap of solidarity between those groups at Dazzler's show, you get to see how that kinda **** isn't gonna win? Even if it's just one small show there's hope there? I thought the nuance was the point?

(But then, I'm not saying that they didn't have a right to be critical of the Inhumans presence at the concert. I haven't kept up but from what I've wiki'd I understand why...but I don't think attacking people over it solves anything, so...?)

[PrezValentine]

But it was just one group of them? Just to show that, ya know, ya got arseholes in every crowd, much like there is in the Inhumans group? But then by showing the equal, if not greater overlap of solidarity between those groups at Dazzler's show, you get to see how that kinda **** isn't gonna win? Even if it's just one small show there's hope there? I thought the nuance was the point?

(But then, I'm not saying that they didn't have a right to be critical of the Inhumans presence at the concert. I haven't kept up but from what I've wiki'd I understand why...but I don't think attacking people over it solves anything, so...?)

Let's try to break it down, then.

The mutants came from more than an year of stories about them crawling under the inhumans' heel. It was revealed that, through propaganda, Medusa made Cyclops be considered some sort of mutant Hitler for supposedly destroying one of the two mutant-killing clouds (the part of literally turning Earth into a gas chamber for mutants is a problem in itself). IvX was a story whose solution came to Medusa destroying the cloud, saying if the X-Men had talked they'd have solved the problem (because mutants are apparently warmongering creatures) and Emma Frost being thrown under the bus to prop Medusa up. There were scenes and scenes sprinkled through most of the books about the inhumans living the good life, mutants being more hated than ever and whatnot.

Along comes Visaggio. She's a trans woman, just to clarify, so she clearly projected herself on the inhuman girl, while the mutants were stand-ins for the LGBs who talked **** to her through her life (which is unforgivable). And these mutants were a bunch of S-class assholes, so Dazzler had to be the "all lives matter" propaganda gal.

So, the problem isn't just the book itself, or the message itself. I dislike the writing on the book as a whole, so that's out of the way. The problem was the sum of bad writing + writer inserting herself into the story * the context in which the issue came out on a meta and in-universe sense (context that was ignored in its entirety for the sake of a self-insertion story). And that's the reason it's a reviled story.

[LordUltimus]

It didn't help that the Inhumans in that Dazzler story (which wasn't a oneshot, by the by, it was the first issue of her ongoing) were all attractive and had cool powers where the mutants were all ugly and had to resort to underhanded means.

And I'm saying that as a guy who views the Inhumans as victims of bad writing.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

Let's try to break it down, then.

The mutants came from more than an year of stories about them crawling under the inhumans' heel. It was revealed that, through propaganda, Medusa made Cyclops be considered some sort of mutant Hitler for supposedly destroying one of the two mutant-killing clouds (the part of literally turning Earth into a gas chamber for mutants is a problem in itself). IvX was a story whose solution came to Medusa destroying the cloud, saying if the X-Men had talked they'd have solved the problem (because mutants are apparently warmongering creatures) and Emma Frost being thrown under the bus to prop Medusa up. There were scenes and scenes sprinkled through most of the books about the inhumans living the good life, mutants being more hated than ever and whatnot.

Along comes Visaggio. She's a trans woman, just to clarify, so she clearly projected herself on the inhuman girl, while the mutants were stand-ins for the LGBs who talked **** to her through her life (which is unforgivable). And these mutants were a bunch of S-class assholes, so Dazzler had to be the "all lives matter" propaganda gal.

So, the problem isn't just the book itself, or the message itself. I dislike the writing on the book as a whole, so that's out of the way. The problem was the sum of bad writing + writer inserting herself into the story * the context in which the issue came out on a meta and in-universe sense (context that was ignored in its entirety for the sake of a self-insertion story). And that's the reason it's a reviled story.

I hear what you're saying, but I don't agree that the message was bad. Not because that the Inhumans deserved to be excused for what they've done, but because I agree with the concept of overall unity. I don't think its' propaganda; I think Dazzler just doesn't hold unaccountable individuals accountable for the actions of the rest of their people. Yes, what Medusa said and did was out of line...but Medusa wasn't the Inhuman girl in the comic; in fact, she obviously didn't fall for that kind of propaganda if she was coming to support Dazzler's cause.

[useridgoeshere]

Sounds like a nightmare of a book.

It is. Watching Dazzler and the beautiful mean girl inhumans attack a Morlock-type guy who’s clearly traumatized, would be ostracized for his appearance and only wants to feel safe was the worst thing I’ve read in years. Whatever metaphor was intended was lost in the horrible execution. I didn’t hold it against Dazzler, just chocking you up to poor writing. She did help takedown Black Bolt.

Not that anyone would remember that guy, but I’d love to see him happily at peace, accepted and safe on Krakoa. It’s exactly what he needed.

[Maestroneto]

It didn't help that the Inhumans in that Dazzler story (which wasn't a oneshot, by the by, it was the first issue of her ongoing) were all attractive and had cool powers where the mutants were all ugly and had to resort to underhanded means.

And I'm saying that as a guy who views the Inhumans as victims of bad writing.

It was a one-shot, originally solicited as Dazzler #43 (in the month where Marvel released a bunch of one time only continuations of long-cancelled series), but delayed and released as Dazzler: X-Song.

[LordUltimus]

The message is fine, it's the execution that's the problem, since it's just inserting a real-life concern and changing some words around without letting the metaphor stand on its own:

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

The message is fine, it's the execution that's the problem, since it's just inserting a real-life concern and changing some words around without letting the metaphor stand on its own:

Yeah, that's definitely a fair point!

[Triniking1234]

Didn't that story also come out after the gas problem was solved?

[FluffyCyclopsRLZ]

My sincerest apologies. My initial comment was merely meant as a 'Duggan is totally the superhero equivalent of rehab/career revival for sellouts, sucks for Dazzler to have skipped her turn'. I sometimes time forget that #NotAllInhumans is an actual freakin' thing. My bad.

[BroHomo]

It is. Watching Dazzler and the beautiful mean girl inhumans attack a Morlock-type guy who’s clearly traumatized, would be ostracized for his appearance and only wants to feel safe was the worst thing I’ve read in years. Whatever metaphor was intended was lost in the horrible execution.

Dude. Me. To. As I was reading it I was looking around (at no one) like "Can you believe this sh!t???"

Not that anyone would remember that guy, but I’d love to see him happily at peace, accepted and safe on Krakoa. It’s exactly what he needed.

Awww I remember he kinda looked like that Spiderman villain Tombstone? Hopefully he's partying on Krakoa with Nekra

[Ultimate Rogue]

Rogue would probably be as hated as Havok and Beast if not for Duggan. The place Remender left her in in 2015 was a die-hard Wanda stan who literally called Magneto a Nazi for punching the Red Skull.

No, No, You've said all this before, and I didn't call you out on it, but I will now,

On the die-hard Wanda stan - I think you're not really giving the whole point of the book much consideration, which was unity of purpose, working together and so on. She wasn't stanning, she was telling her to get up, get her **** together, psyching her up for the fight and so on.

And no, Rogue didn't literally call Magneto a Nazi for punching the Red Skull (not that I remember, and even if she did, she wouldn't be completely off the mark, quit the fanboying of Mags people, he's a total supremacy wanka at times, it's why some people like him, while others don't)

If this is what you're referring to...

Uncanny Avengers Vol 1 #25

She doesn't literally call him a Nazi, at all, and...
spoilers:

Rogue knew Xaviers brain and consciousness was still there in the Red Skull... then after this scene when Rogue awakens, she tells Wanda, Havok and maybe Magneto?? about Xavier still having consciousness, that's what they were horrified at, seeing Magneto drop a ton of bricks on Xaviers brain, they were witnessing Xaviers death. What happens after, further justifies Rogues horror/disappointment, and why Magneto was a tool, Red Onslaught was released. Rogues true goal was to get Xaviers brain outta the Red Skull, before killing him.

end of spoilers

Checked 2014 and 2015 X-books awards and Rogue wasn't in the top 5 least favourite heroes in either year so I guess she wasn't as hated after all. Oh well.

(Storm hilariously won best hero and the runner-up for best hero once despite doing virtually nothing in the 6 ongoings she appeared in)

She wasn't hated at all, in this 2014 Marvel Character Popularity Poll, She's 4th out of all Marvel characters and from a more diverse fan pool.

https://observationdeck.**********/s...-cb-1568108064

Top 20..
20. Iron Man
19. Dr. Doom
18. Hulk
17. Magik
16. Psylocke
15. Carol Danvers
14. Daredevil
13. Kitty Pryde
12. Emma Frost
11. Magneto
10. Cyclops
9. Captain America
8. Jean Grey
7. Gambit
6. Nightcrawler
5. Thor
4. Rogue
3. Wolverine
2. Storm
1. Spider-Man

Now that's enough geeking out for me for today, We've gotten way of subject, as usual.

[PrezValentine]

"You're no better than a literal nazi, Erik, but I'm not calling you one."

The fallacy of horseshoe theory is a wonder of modern times.