'Superman & Lois' in development at the CW

[phantom1592]

On the Adventures of Superman George Reeves almost never fought anyone. He would just knock the bad guys heads together and knock them out. I don't recall Dean Cain's Superman getting in too many fist fights either.
Supergirl seems to be the first one to punch people in the face on live action TV. Not sure why people have the idea less episodes translates into more money per episode. Seems like each episode gets a certain amount of
money based on how much advertising they can sell. Less episodes means less advertising money. I don't think there is just a fixed pot of money that gets divied up over the episodes no matter how many or how few.
And there are multiple writers so it's not like someone has to write a whole bunch of episodes as opposed to fewer episodes.

Kind of what I was thinking. If anything this will be the first Superman show 'in costume'.. that actually has solid fights and a special effects budget. George Reeves, Lois and Clark, Superboy, even Smallville was light on actual cgi heavy 'FIGHTS'.... Heck, even the Christopher Reeve movies weren't great in combat either... That Superboy clip above is already better than a LOT of well loved superman series. So top notch effects aren't the be all and end all... but it'll be nice if they can make it work.

As for season length... I want MORE. I hate short seasons. I LIKE the filler episodes that are able to tell a stand alone story without getting bogged down with advancing a usually annoying season long metaplot. The short inbetween episodes are where a lot of these series shine. The episode writers can just tell a great story without having to close up plot points from three episodes before or leave brand new cliffhangers for someone else to close by the finale.

[manwhohaseverything]

It'd be more awesome if Krypto wasn't killing soldiers (the one with the launcher - maybe he lived, I don't know), but that was definitely well-shot. In fact, I think certain bits could be cut even faster to maximize the impact of it for the viewer (and wouldn't hurt the budget, either).

Well, they disobeyed orders and attacked people including an old man. The rocket launcher guy was himself chose to use it and was not think of the damage. If it had exploded close to vicinity the old man would have died. It was pretty much self defence. A dogs gotta do whats a dogs gotta do. He just changed the direction of rocket like a Frisbee. it was entirely a reflex action. You can't guarantee life won't be lost when you bring guns, rocket launchers... Etc.Soldier alway know that when they go in. They were just in subordinate this instance and bit them in their ass. Still, "a good boy though" like the people in comments said for krypto. I would have loved for these two get a show.There something magical about a boy and a superpowered dog.
Also, i wonder krypto will be in this. You can't have superfamily or jon without krypto. It just would be incredibly boring.

[manwhohaseverything]

Kind of what I was thinking. If anything this will be the first Superman show 'in costume'.. that actually has solid fights and a special effects budget. George Reeves, Lois and Clark, Superboy, even Smallville was light on actual cgi heavy 'FIGHTS'.... Heck, even the Christopher Reeve movies weren't great in combat either... That Superboy clip above is already better than a LOT of well loved superman series. So top notch effects aren't the be all and end all... but it'll be nice if they can make it work.

As for season length... I want MORE. I hate short seasons. I LIKE the filler episodes that are able to tell a stand alone story without getting bogged down with advancing a usually annoying season long metaplot. The short inbetween episodes are where a lot of these series shine. The episode writers can just tell a great story without having to close up plot points from three episodes before or leave brand new cliffhangers for someone else to close by the finale.

I would rather they not put in filler and pacing be changed. Those old shows aired when superhero show of someone like superman had no competition.Now,there is. Why would anyone want low budget family drama of superman without fights and action?
Also, remember superman returns. it was underwhelming. it had nothing other than the flight rescue and earth quake rescues as an action sequence.And there was no fights. Brian singer himself admitted it was a mistake. Action drives the story in superhero genre. I don't understand how people can trivialise it. You can even tell an entire story with just two people dancing around and throwing punches.

[JAK]

Well, they disobeyed orders and attacked people including an old man. The rocket launcher guy was himself chose to use it and was not think of the damage. If it had exploded close to vicinity the old man would have died. It was pretty much self defence. A dogs gotta do whats a dogs gotta do. He just changed the direction of rocket like a Frisbee. it was entirely a reflex action. You can't guarantee life won't be lost when you bring guns, rocket launchers... Etc.Soldier alway know that when they go in. They were just in subordinate this instance and bit them in their ass. Still, "a good boy though" like the people in comments said for krypto. I would have loved for these two get a show.There something magical about a boy and a superpowered dog.

That sounds like a lot of basic action trope excuses to me. "The bad guy had it coming" - the bad guy always has it coming. That's never *not* the case. But I haven't watched the show, so if those that do are cool with it, whatever. It would have been cool (imo) for it to come close enough to the soldier to scare him off, but that's just my preference. As for the soldier himself, dying's quite a "bite in the ass". Bet he won't try that again... oh, wait..

Also, i wonder krypto will be in this. You can't have superfamily or jon without krypto. It just would be incredibly boring.

I don't think he absolutely has to be for it to be any good, but it would certainly be a welcome addition!

[phantom1592]

I would rather they not put in filler and pacing be changed. Those old shows aired when superhero show of someone like superman had no competition.Now,there is. Why would anyone want low budget family drama of superman without fights and action?
Also, remember superman returns. it was underwhelming. it had nothing other than the flight rescue and earth quake rescues as an action sequence.And there was no fights. Brian singer himself admitted it was a mistake. Action drives the story in superhero genre. I don't understand how people can trivialise it. You can even tell an entire story with just two people dancing around and throwing punches.

My problems with Superman Returns went a lot deeper than the lack of fights. I still loved seeing that bullet bounce of his eye and trying to save a whole city in an earthquake... one of the biggest problems with Superman is that there STILL isn't much competition. for him. Smallville showed a lot of powers being used, but actual knockdown fights were pretty disappointing. Smallville showed you can have a lot of superhero action without just being about low budget drama. Superman should 'generally' be about leading up to the fights... What the villain did, how he discovers who he is... what kind of investigation Clark needs to do to... but once he actually FINDS the villain... the fights pretty quick. Outside Doomsday, Mongul, Bizzaro, Darkseid, and the other A-list SUPER-THREATS... and I dont' want them being used ALL the TIME... The last thing I want is a Superman who constantly being kicked around and having to be the underdog. Great for season finale... but there are a LOT more stories of him just being 'super'.

[manwhohaseverything]

That sounds like a lot of basic action trope excuses to me. "The bad guy had it coming" - the bad guy always has it coming. That's never *not* the case. But I haven't watched the show, so if those that do are cool with it, whatever. It would have been cool (imo) for it to come close enough to the soldier to scare him off, but that's just my preference. As for the soldier himself, dying's quite a "bite in the ass". Bet he won't try that again... oh, wait..



I don't think he absolutely has to be for it to be any good, but it would certainly be a welcome addition!

My argument wasn't the bad guy had it coming.my argument was Self defence is a thing. When fights happen you can't control every aspect even if you are superman.it becomes incredibly boring if does control everything . I don't think rockets work that way. Krypto changing direction meant,it would fly in the opposite direction . This argument that a fight happens and everyone leaves hunky dory is naive. There will always be chance of lives lost and by the action of the hero infocus themselves. Heros try to mitigate that but it can't happen. Heck! Batman's accidents have caused death and creation of villains.i mean, joker did fall into a pool of acid.

If you want clark or conner or krypto to not hurt anyone. They will have to be complete "ahimsa vaadhi" or nonviolence advocators like gandhi(not pacifist, there is a difference. Gandhi wasn't a pacifist). Conner and krypto would have to take the punch and never dish it back. And let The soldiers get tired. Then there will be no action. At all. It would be incredibly boring to look at. People need to understand the difference between an execution and an action taken in self defence causing death.
I think krypto needs to be there. He adds to fantastical. All the Superboys, clark, connor or jon are incomplete without their dogs.it's like action comics without lois lane.

[manwhohaseverything]

My problems with Superman Returns went a lot deeper than the lack of fights. I still loved seeing that bullet bounce of his eye and trying to save a whole city in an earthquake... one of the biggest problems with Superman is that there STILL isn't much competition. for him. Smallville showed a lot of powers being used, but actual knockdown fights were pretty disappointing. Smallville showed you can have a lot of superhero action without just being about low budget drama. Superman should 'generally' be about leading up to the fights... What the villain did, how he discovers who he is... what kind of investigation Clark needs to do to... but once he actually FINDS the villain... the fights pretty quick. Outside Doomsday, Mongul, Bizzaro, Darkseid, and the other A-list SUPER-THREATS... and I dont' want them being used ALL the TIME... The last thing I want is a Superman who constantly being kicked around and having to be the underdog. Great for season finale... but there are a LOT more stories of him just being 'super'.

Dude, smallville is Incredibly dated. Its not something i recommend for superman adaptation. And it is seen as a drama series. That's not true at all that superman has no competition . I hate this notion that superman doesn't have to focus on action and ends quickly. People can make up awesome villains on the fly. He needs to be underdog when story demands it. Max fleischer cartoon was entirely action focus. He fought giant robots, godzilla,rocket cars.. Etc.
Also that wasn't the competition i meant. I meant competition of superhero shows that exist at the same time. Audience of superheroes have other and better options now. They didn't then

[phantom1592]

My argument wasn't the bad guy had it coming.my argument was Self defence is a thing. When fights happen you can't control every aspect even if you are superman.it becomes incredibly boring if does control everything . I don't think rockets work that way. Krypto changing direction meant,it would fly in the opposite direction . This argument that a fight happens and everyone leaves hunky dory is naive. There will always be chance of lives lost and by the action of the hero infocus themselves. Heros try to mitigate that but it can't happen. Heck! Batman's accidents have caused death and creation of villains.i mean, joker did fall into a pool of acid. If you want clark or conner or krypto to not hurt anyone. They will have to be complete "ahimsa vaadhi" or nonviolence advocators like gandhi(not pacifist, there is a difference. Gandhi wasn't a pacifist). Conner and krypto would have to take the punch and never dish it back. And let The soldiers get tired. Then there will be no action. At all. It would be incredibly boring to look at. People need to understand the difference between an execution and an action taken in self defence causing death.


I think krypto needs to be there. He adds to fantastical. All of the Superboys whether it's clark or are incomplete without their dogs.it's like action comics without lois lane.

I think there's a huge difference between 'never attack and let the soldiers get tired... and 'throw a rocket back at him.' That was a bit jarring in it's level of violence... Not unexpected if that's from the super-gritty 'Titans' show... but still jarring to see Krypto blow someone up. Leaping in front of a bullet to protect someone and having it richocet back and kill him... that's an accidental death. Throwing a bomb at them... not so much. I would point out that Superboy used a lot of powers and took out a whole bunch of soldiers in there with invulnerability, speed, super breath and krypto's heat vision... and did it all non-lethally. and it was anything but a boring scene.

[JAK]

My argument wasn't the bad guy had it coming.my argument was Self defence is a thing. When fights happen you can't control every aspect even if you are superman. it becomes incredibly boring if does control everything.

Self-defense doesn't require killing - especially against soldiers that clearly stood absolutely no chance against them. It's also odd to say "they can't control everything, and it'd be boring if they did" because they can either control it or they can't. So they can just kill whoever screws with them and it's fine?

And you said that: a, "Well, they disobeyed orders and attacked people including an old man" and b, "It was pretty much self defence. A dogs gotta do whats a dogs gotta do." If that's not another way to say "the bad guy had it coming, I don't know what is. 99.9% of the time, it's the bad guy's fault. Same difference.

I don't think rockets work that way. Krypto changing direction meant,it would fly in the opposite direction.

He changed the direction, though - he aimed it. It's not a reflection; it's a catch-and-throw. Which looked amazing, don't get me wrong. But still.

This argument that a fight happens and everyone leaves hunky dory is naive. There will always be chance of lives lost and by the action of the hero infocus themselves. Heros try to mitigate that but it can't happen.

The only life-taking mitigation in that scene was when Kon protected the old man. Which was also awesome. But I'm not just fine with the Super-family wantonly killing whoever now.

Heck! Batman's accidents have caused death and creation of villains.i mean, joker did fall into a pool of acid. If you want clark or conner or krypto to not hurt anyone. They will have to be complete "ahimsa vaadhi" or nonviolence advocators like gandhi(not pacifist, there is a difference. Gandhi wasn't a pacifist). Conner and krypto would have to take the punch and never dish it back. And let The soldiers get tired. Then there will be no action. At all. It would be incredibly boring to look at. People need to understand the difference between an execution and an action taken in self defence causing death.

Who said no violence? I'm not a monk. I just think that anyone in the Super-family is held to a higher standard when it comes to killing bad guys - especially random humans who pose no real threat at all. There's a giant chasm between "not killing humans" and "don't fight back." It's not one or the other.

I think krypto needs to be there. He adds to fantastical. All of the Superboys whether it's clark or are incomplete without their dogs.it's like action comics without lois lane.

I can get behind the logic and agree that he adds both a Norman Rockwell flavor as well as a fantastical element, though I don't think he's quite as essential as Lois. Like you, though, I hope he's in there.

[manwhohaseverything]

I think there's a huge difference between 'never attack and let the soldiers get tired... and 'throw a rocket back at him.' That was a bit jarring in it's level of violence... Not unexpected if that's from the super-gritty 'Titans' show... but still jarring to see Krypto blow someone up. Leaping in front of a bullet to protect someone and having it richocet back and kill him... that's an accidental death. Throwing a bomb at them... not so much. I would point out that Superboy used a lot of powers and took out a whole bunch of soldiers in there with invulnerability, speed, super breath and krypto's heat vision... and did it all non-lethally. and it was anything but a boring scene.

Rocket isn't thrown.rockets are self propelled. Krypto changed the trejectory. It was reflex action. Hello,did batman cause dent's accident? It wasn't jarring for me. I am not alone in that. If you felt tbat way that's cool. But, violence has consequences. It is a binary. Either a situation of violence happens or it doesn't .if you engage in violence it can and will have lasting repercussions like getting crippled and death. And those actions performed by superboy he could control. That was the only reason death was avoided there. There will be things- uncontrollable in fights. Superboy himself may cause ever lasting damage to people in situation of violence. Telling it like it is, is not being gritty. It is just realism. It's like a boxer expecting his nose to be fine. to expect a gun fight to have no consequences like death is naive. Leaping in front and ricochet death is the same as this.

[Agent Z]

So not even the animals are allowed to kill people? That's pretty funny given Superman's no killing rule has never applied to non-humans.

[manwhohaseverything]

Self-defense doesn't require killing - especially against soldiers that clearly stood absolutely no chance against them. It's also odd to say "they can't control everything, and it'd be boring if they did" because they can either control it or they can't. So they can just kill whoever screws with them and it's fine?

And you said that: a, "Well, they disobeyed orders and attacked people including an old man" and b, "It was pretty much self defence. A dogs gotta do whats a dogs gotta do." If that's not another way to say "the bad guy had it coming, I don't know what is. 99.9% of the time, it's the bad guy's fault. Same difference.



He changed the direction, though - he aimed it. It's not a reflection; it's a catch-and-throw. Which looked amazing, don't get me wrong. But still.

This argument that a fight happens and everyone leaves hunky dory is naive. There will always be chance of lives lost and by the action of the hero infocus themselves. Heros try to mitigate that but it can't happen.

The only life-taking mitigation in that scene was when Kon protected the old man. Which was also awesome. But I'm not just fine with the Super-family wantonly killing whoever now.



Who said no violence? I'm not a monk. I just think that anyone in the Super-family is held to a higher standard when it comes to killing bad guys - especially random humans who pose no real threat at all. There's a giant chasm between "not killing humans" and "don't fight back." It's not one or the other.



I can get behind the logic and agree that he adds both a Norman Rockwell flavor as well as a fantastical element, though I don't think he's quite as essential as Lois. Like you, though, I hope he's in there.

This is why its incredibly hard to make action with an action hero, now. When did i say self defence required killing. self defence doesn't require it. but, death is very much a byproduct that may or may not exist depending on the ability to control a situation and sheer dumb luck. An action sequence where superman or anyone is in control of everything will have no tension. That's why it is boring.Again this adherence to no deaths in fight scenes is hard to follow. Especially, in live action were realism kicks in to some degree always.

Yeah! Dogs gotta do what a dogs gotta do. He saw something flying in the air like a frisbee. Jumped at it like one. It just happened to be self propelled rocket.yes,they did disobey orders and charged in risked the lives of innocent civilians and even attaked then. I do believe they had it coming. Make no mistake about that. Everyman is responsible for their own action. But, that wasn't my point.

Again, they aren't killing. Those were collateral. That's like saying batman made harvey dent burn. No, he didn't. It was an accident during a situation of violence. Hello, superboy was trying to not kill. But, he isn't that great at his powers.the kid fell

You don't have to be a monk to advocate non-violence. Jains advocate non-violence against everything even microorganisms . I don't think they are all monks. Your argument is accidental deaths and collateral deaths are kills. I don't think so. Wanton murder would be conner and superdog going beast and massacring everyone. This idea that violence is something that is controllable is false and naive.either, There is violence or not. If there is violence death pretty much has a high probability. humans aren't special and again nobody was executed for it to be called a kill. Deaths happened in a situation of violence. It happens.

you think gandhi didn't fight back or his philosophy was that. He fought back. His way of fighting back was destoying the enemies resolve with his own resolve to never resort to violence. Let them hit you until they can no longer hit you without feeling remorse . "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win" . This was gandhi's philosophy .gandhi was proactive. He always fought. Heck! He was more pro active than clark is portrayed to be.


No, he didn't. He jumped like catching a frisbee. He was in turning motion. The rocket went right back to where it came from because it was self propelled .

He is essential to superboy character. You can't have a superboy without superdog with him. That's what i am saying. Lois is essential for action comics in general.

Conner is a person. He isn't the angel like superman nor is he the devil like luthor. Conner was asked to stay hidden and don't draw attention by being a hero.he did even after that and despite the consequences because he has the innate capacity for good. He can't just not help. Same as clark.

[JAK]

This is why its incredibly hard to make action with an action hero, now. When did i say self defence required killing. self defence doesn't require it. but, death is very much a byproduct that may or may not exist depending on the ability to control a situation and sheer dumb luck. An action sequence where superman or anyone is in control of everything will have no tension. That's why it is boring.Again this adherence to no deaths in fight scenes is hard to follow. Especially, in live action were realism kicks in to some degree always.

Yeah! Dogs gotta do what a dogs gotta do. He saw something flying in the air like a frisbee. Jumped at it like one. It just happened to be self propelled rocket.yes,they did disobey orders and charged in risked the lives of innocent civilians and even attaked then. I do believe they had it coming. Make no mistake about that. Everyman is responsible for their own action. But, that wasn't my point.

Again, they aren't killing. Those were collateral. That's like saying batman made harvey dent burn. No, he didn't. It was an accident during a situation of violence. Hello, superboy was trying to not kill. But, he isn't that great at his powers.the kid fell

You don't have to be a monk to advocate non-violence. Jains advocate non-violence against everything even microorganisms . I don't think they are all monks. Your argument is accidental deaths and collateral deaths are kills. I don't think so. Wanton murder would be conner and superdog going beast and massacring everyone. This idea that violence is something that is controllable is false and naive.either, There is violence or not. If there is violence death pretty much has a high probability. humans aren't special and again nobody was executed for it to be called a kill. Deaths happened in a situation of violence. It happens.

you think gandhi didn't fight back or his philosophy was that. He fought back. His way of fighting back was destoying the enemies resolve with his own resolve to never resort to violence. Let them hit you until they can no longer hit you without feeling remorse . "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win" . This was gandhi's philosophy .gandhi was proactive. He always fought. Heck! He was more pro active than clark is portrayed to be.


No, he didn't. He jumped like catching a frisbee. He was in turning motion. The rocket went right back to where it came from because it was self propelled .

He is essential to superboy character. You can't have a superboy without superdog with him. That's what i am saying. Lois is essential for action comics in general.

Conner is a person. He isn't the angel like superman nor is he the devil like luthor. Conner was asked to stay hidden and don't draw attention by being a hero.he did even after that and despite the consequences because he has the innate capacity for good. He can't just not help. Same as clark.

Collateral. That sounds like spin room stuff from a govt's chief of staff. But whatever. Heroes do what they do, and if anybody dies there's always an excuse for it, no matter how much they weren't in any danger - but it's all good because if it was any different, it'd get in the way of an action shot. Got it.

But this is all off-topic, anyway, so I'm dropping it.

[manwhohaseverything]

Collateral. That sounds like spin room stuff from a govt's chief of staff. But whatever. Heroes do what they do, and if anybody dies there's always an excuse for it, no matter how much they weren't in any danger - but it's all good because if it was any different, it'd get in the way of an action shot. Got it.

But this is all off-topic, anyway, so I'm dropping it.

This basically, what i am saying. I meant action hero as in a protagonist. Not like moral figure hero. All i am saying is that death or worse happens in violent situations. Its realistic. Violence is not something that can be controlled that easily . Action scenes are supposed to mirror that as well. There has to be some realism when it comes to live action. How many movies have batman not kill? 1 or maybe 2 atmost.in games, batman uses tanks and expect us to believe he hasn't killed anyone. That stuff goes above my head. The way batman goes about his business. He should have crippled many and killed. Telling it how it is not bad direction. Saying batman does what he does everytime with no adverse effect is undigestable. Vigilantism has consequences. Bad ones. Telling it how it is not bad storytelling. Civil war also tackled this scarlet witch blew up a building while trying stop suicide bomber.

Look, i am not making excuses for the deaths. I never did. Conner is a child in a man's body with superpowers. He is naive and doesn't have good handle on things, yet. You think that isn't going to do damage? He is very dangerous .But, This idea that conner was on a wanton murder streak is false.Who said conner is not going to be blamed for his actions?he is or i hope they do. Episodes haven't been aired yet. But, conner has to answer for things. He had basically blew up a police car in last episode i saw. Atleast a couple of police officers got killed as well. That is not even the subject we were debating.
I apologise, if i come across hard headed and for going off topic.

[Yoda]

Everyone kills on Titans, the body count in that show is insane. Dick Grayson is probably the worst offender with likely high double if not triple digits considering he blew up an entire evil hospital. Hawk and Dove kill in cold blood. Raven's killed, Starfire's repeatedly roasted people alive, Beast Boy ate a dude. Krypto and Conner are just trying to keep up. Yet they treated Batman's killing of the Joker in a dream world as some kind of line he crossed.

It's a decent show, but the writing isn't any better than CW's shows. It's over dramatic in the same ways, just with higher production values. They spent an entire episode on Aqualad pining for Donna Troy. The only consistently well written DC show so far has been Doom Patrol.