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  1. #316
    Death becomes you Osiris-Rex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DochaDocha View Post
    Well, Corridor Crew just crapped all over this scene. What perfect timing.
    I wonder if the kids were as hard on the TV versions of Adventures of Superman, Batman, Star Trek:TOS Wonder Woman, The Incredible Hulk, Superboy, Lois & Clark, Smallville. They had some pretty terrible special effects
    yet these shows are looked on fondly. Even Flash and the Netflix Marvel shows weren't that great. I wonder why Supergirl gets singled out. Does anyone honestly think Supergirl is going to have effect on par with movies
    like Disney's Avengers? It's not like any TV show is going to have $100 million and a whole year to work on the effects. The effects in that scene were to move the story along, not to showcase the effects in a bid to win
    an Emmy for special effects. So if all people are doing is concentrating on the effect, they are missing the point of the scene.

  2. #317
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osiris-Rex View Post
    I wonder if the kids were as hard on the TV versions of Adventures of Superman, Batman, Star Trek:TOS Wonder Woman, The Incredible Hulk, Superboy, Lois & Clark, Smallville. They had some pretty terrible special effects
    yet these shows are looked on fondly. Even Flash and the Netflix Marvel shows weren't that great. I wonder why Supergirl gets singled out. Does anyone honestly think Supergirl is going to have effect on par with movies
    like Disney's Avengers? It's not like any TV show is going to have $100 million and a whole year to work on the effects. The effects in that scene were to move the story along, not to showcase the effects in a bid to win
    an Emmy for special effects. So if all people are doing is concentrating on the effect, they are missing the point of the scene.
    I think they have and they would criticise those shows but also would take into consideration these shows are old. I mean, they have even tried to fix scorpion king. They didn't crap over it. They were very considerate in their critic regarding budget and stuff.

  3. #318
    Death becomes you Osiris-Rex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    I think they have and they would criticise those shows but also would take into consideration these shows are old. I mean, they have even tried to fix scorpion king. They didn't crap over it. They were very considerate in their critic regarding budget and stuff.
    No. I meant when those shows were new. Did the kids think the effects were terrible at the time? Or did they just figure it was a TV show and let it go at that. I think the problem is with big budget movies people
    expect everything to look like that. Back in the 1950s movie effects were pretty terrible too compared to what we have now, so for a TV show there wasn't all that much difference. But now kids are spoiled so
    if it doesn't look like a Disney movie, it is considered crap. You probably have two or three guys with a week or two to do the effects on Supergirl. Verses dozens of people working for months on Avengers.
    And are the effects on other TV shows really all that much better? It just seems like there is a group of people that hate Supergirl and will come up with any excuse to crap on the show while giving other shows
    they like a pass.

  4. #319
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osiris-Rex View Post
    No. I meant when those shows were new. Did the kids think the effects were terrible at the time? Or did they just figure it was a TV show and let it go at that. I think the problem is with big budget movies people
    expect everything to look like that. Back in the 1950s movie effects were pretty terrible too compared to what we have now, so for a TV show there wasn't all that much difference. But now kids are spoiled so
    if it doesn't look like a Disney movie, it is considered crap. You probably have two or three guys with a week or two to do the effects on Supergirl. Verses dozens of people working for months on Avengers.
    And are the effects on other TV shows really all that much better? It just seems like there is a group of people that hate Supergirl and will come up with any excuse to crap on the show while giving other shows
    they like a pass.
    You have to realise that scene looks terrible even by tv standards. Atleast these guys have a budget. So, criticing the quality with the budget in mind is not bad. These guys are professionals ofcourse they would watch out for technical aspects. It isn't about disney movie or not. They have appreciated effects of titanic and other older movies. They have even watched indian cheapest movies and appreciated things.

  5. #320
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    I think it comes down to "fool me once, shame on you. Fool me fifty-seven times..."

    My particular doubt comes from the network. I just don't trust or like the CW much. They even made Archie an overly dramatic mess. I don't know, right now they're batting a 0 from me. I'll still give this a look, though. I'd always love to be wrong.
    If you've been fooled fifty-seven times, that's not really the CW's fault anymore Seriously though, if the CW's approach isn't for you, that's perfectly valid. Just don't watch their shows, or wait until the first impressions come in to get an idea of whether or not this will be something you're interested in. Not everything needs to be made to appeal to everyone. Those CW shows have a sizable audience internationally, which is why they keep making them. It doesn't mean that I'm necessarily interested in all of their shows. It's like Kpop. I'm not a teenaged girl, there shouldn't be any expectation on my part that that music should appeal to me.

    Just because the CW shows have superheroes in them doesn't mean it's going to be for everyone, in the same way that every superhero comic doesn't appeal to me.

  6. #321
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    I guess, the suits would think that given "animated properties are for kids" belief in America. It is a mistake in my opinion. I don't understand wouldn't they do market study and such before greenlighting things? . As i said, the problem isn't that though. As said earlier, Even if they did hire writers like you said. Will superman be seen as anything other than a superhero show for its audience by other audiences ? Would the stories be successful or well regarded as stories specifically designed for jourlism/famil drama ?
    This isn’t superman ip's main playing field. but, an added layer. Giving a layer more importance than the core is a mistake. Especially, in the current post-avengers world. I want superman to be seen as a cool kid of his class room, again. For that, Superhero audiences need to acknowledge him again. Right now, i think there is a section superhero audiences is indifferent to him.
    There is a massive amount of market research done on their animated properties, which is why we have the DC Animated Movies. However, the revenue generated by those properties shows that the adult market for that kind of material is not a massive one. As a result, the majority of animated superhero properties are either going to be aimed at children or be much more limited in scope.

    I think Superman & Lois could work, despite not being a traditional superhero premise. The character is flexible enough to work in various different permutations. Lois & Clark, and Smallville both proved that audiences were willing to see different approaches to the mythos as long as the show is good and the core of the characters remains the same. I don't know if this idea will necessarily be successful. It will require the right creative approach. We'll see if it works or not, but I'm hopeful that it will be.
    Last edited by Bored at 3:00AM; 11-03-2019 at 08:22 PM.

  7. #322
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Gordon View Post
    Lol, Superman's altruism and hope doesn't extend to bad TV. The CW produces poor content on the cheap. I've seen enough to make an educated guess, this is even by the same production teams.

    To be honest I think conflating Superman's moral compass for optimism about a television show has a lot to do with why the character is dwindling unfortunately.
    Hope and optimism aren't exclusive. You can apply that point of view to everything, particularly your entertainment, because that's what Superman is. He's a comic book character that's been adapted into movies, TV, and everything else that has entertained billions by validating hope and optimism over cynicism and despair.

    Again, not digging the CW shows is perfectly valid. They aren't necessarily for you. That's okay. We don't all need to be the target audience for every form of entertainment.

  8. #323
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stargazer01 View Post
    Agreed about Archie. I read the showrunner for this show (Superman and Lois) was responsible for some of the bad The Flash seasons... At least get someone with a better track record. We went from Zack Snyder to something just as bad in a different way. Would love to be wrong, but the CW has a really bad record in my view. The writers very often have no idea what they are writing when it comes to actual reporting, politics or the law.
    Pulling off Superman in any medium is always a tricky thing. He's not an easy character to get right. It's entirely possible this show won't be any good, but I don't see much point in kvetching this early with assumptions that it's going to suck.

    But, I understand, we're comic fans. Assuming the worst is simply hardwired into our DNA at this point.

  9. #324
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    Corridor Crew aren't armchair quarterbacks like the hundreds of movie reviewers on YouTube. They're VFX artists and have empathy for a lot of the difficult working conditions other VFX artists undergo, e.g. short turnaround times and small budgets. They have a pretty solid understanding of what makes for good and bad VFX and share their insight with their audience in a really articulate way. One of their guys was invited to do a Ted Talk and had a really solid presentation. Also, they dish praise as often as they deliver harsh criticism, as part of their YouTube series. They react to bad and great VFX scenes, old and new.

    It's also important to note that the clips they react to are suggested by their audience. Okay, I'm only about 90% sure that's the case, but I don't think they scour the net to find examples for commentary; they crowdsource for ideas. That Supergirl clip was suggested by Corridor Crew viewers, and they gave their feedback. In this case, it wasn't complimentary.

    Also, I think it's important to remember that a critic of VFX will always add context to judging VFX scenes, but for many fans there are absolute minimum quality standards. I think in 1993, I was quite OK with Lois & Clark's mediocre VFX, but that was much in part because live-action superhero media wasn't as ubiquitous as they are today, and I was a teenager. The only live-action Superman I really had to compare Lois & Clark to was the Reeve movies, and those were already pretty old, and Superman IV had awful VFX. Today, I think the minimum quality standard is way up. Superhero stories, regardless of medium, are highly-reliant on visuals, and if they innately make you think "cheesy," then we have an issue.

    If you can't make a good (enough) looking scene for your TV show, either re-plot the scene or re-budget accordingly.

  10. #325
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DochaDocha View Post
    If you can't make a good (enough) looking scene for your TV show, either re-plot the scene or re-budget accordingly.
    To be fair, I don't think that's always possible when you factor in last-minute or unforeseen production problems like injuries, weather, location rescheduling, problems with the actors or crew, and ridiculous studio mandates. With a big budget movie, that's a reasonable expectation, but TV production is, from all reports, a much crazier and intense experience.

    Which isn't to say that big budget superhero movies are exempt from this either, as we saw with Justice League and the nonsense related to Snyder, Whedon and the rushed CGI and reshoots that led to Superman's bizarre upper lip.

  11. #326
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    To be fair, I don't think that's always possible when you factor in last-minute or unforeseen production problems like injuries, weather, location rescheduling, problems with the actors or crew, and ridiculous studio mandates. With a big budget movie, that's a reasonable expectation, but TV production is, from all reports, a much crazier and intense experience.

    Which isn't to say that big budget superhero movies are exempt from this either, as we saw with Justice League and the nonsense related to Snyder, Whedon and the rushed CGI and reshoots that led to Superman's bizarre upper lip.
    None, of those as far as i am aware was a factor in that scene. It was done lazily . It should be called out. You can't cry about budget when fans do a better job than that with no budget at all.
    Justice league was a whole different deal. It went south the minute bvs came out and Snyder's vision started to scare wb. I wouldn't even call it a movie.it's soulless mess.

  12. #327
    Fantastic Member Last Son's Avatar
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    Fans don't have to produce 22 45 minute episodes every year. A fan can work on a five minute video for a year and nobody's going to complain because it's just a hobby with no deadlines or expectations of profit. These people have a lot of work to do in a short period of time and the budget gets stretched out over an entire season. It's not like they get 100 million for a single episode, they probably don't even get that much for the whole season.

  13. #328
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Last Son View Post
    Fans don't have to produce 22 45 minute episodes every year. A fan can work on a five minute video for a year and nobody's going to complain because it's just a hobby with no deadlines or expectations of profit. These people have a lot of work to do in a short period of time and the budget gets stretched out over an entire season. It's not like they get 100 million for a single episode, they probably don't even get that much for the whole season.
    Dude, the people that criticising are vfx artists themselves. I think, they would take into consideration the workload and other constraints. If something is sloppy. Its sloppy. It isn't about budget,its about getting optimal value for the limited budget.

  14. #329
    Astonishing Member DochaDocha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    To be fair, I don't think that's always possible when you factor in last-minute or unforeseen production problems like injuries, weather, location rescheduling, problems with the actors or crew, and ridiculous studio mandates. With a big budget movie, that's a reasonable expectation, but TV production is, from all reports, a much crazier and intense experience.

    Which isn't to say that big budget superhero movies are exempt from this either, as we saw with Justice League and the nonsense related to Snyder, Whedon and the rushed CGI and reshoots that led to Superman's bizarre upper lip.
    I should've specified I mean that if a show is constantly underperforming in the VFX, not just a scene or episode here or there.

    Black Panther was another example (and I think Corridor Crew pointed this out) where the VFX artists were screwed with an unreasonable schedule, and they simply didn't have time to finish the CGI.

  15. #330
    Astonishing Member stargazer01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    Pulling off Superman in any medium is always a tricky thing. He's not an easy character to get right. It's entirely possible this show won't be any good, but I don't see much point in kvetching this early with assumptions that it's going to suck.

    But, I understand, we're comic fans. Assuming the worst is simply hardwired into our DNA at this point.
    Like I said, I've seen enough CW shows to feel the way I do. It's like I can't trust Zack Snyder again with Superman if he was given another chance. He's ruined for me. Besides, the CW already ruined this Superman version for me so far. They broke him in my book, and I don't see how they are going to fix him and make him great. But that's just me. The only thing the CW have done really well so far is Lex Luthor.

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