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  1. #121
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valentis View Post
    It's not about us dismissing it. it's about another CW show that is already dismissible. Is anyone expecting this new Superman show would have the same quality and story telling that we saw with Legion, Daredevil or Watchmen or even Gotham on Fox. CW has always been the place of crap tv shows and crap writing.
    If its like doom patrol. Berlanti was doing that too. Wasn't he? . it might be decent. As for watchmen, is that show good? I mean, the audience score for is very low. Or is that because of politics.

  2. #122
    Mighty Member Hybrid's Avatar
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    Doom Patrol wasn't a CW show, and honestly I think Berlanti had very minimal involvement with it outside of executive producing. He's apparently in charge of the DC section for live-action adaptations, and he's very hands-off. I think Berlanti working outside of CW is better than in it, but idk how much of it is him with DP.

  3. #123
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    I wonder what was the pitch for this series. I mean, it has to have some merit to it. Right? Flash is also on cw. I just wish we had gotten something awesome that blew minds away like one punch man.

  4. #124
    (formerly "Superman") JAK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manofsteel1979 View Post
    I'm kind of bummed so many here are automatically dismissing it before we've even seen one episode.

    Do I wish we were getting more Superman on the big screen instead? Yeah of course, but at least this beats just not doing anything in live action with Supes at all,which honestly looked to be the case after they've shelved the movies.

    Plus,this means a high probability of more Jon Cryer as Lex Luthor, possibly on a regular basis. I think most of us can agree that's a good thing.

    Let's take a breath and wait till we see this thing before automatically trying to kill it with fire,ok?
    Seeing how he was treated up until now, I welcome the prospect of him being a lead character, finally. Same for Lois. I'm excited - I honestly didn't thing we'd be getting this. WB may not know what it's doing most of the time, but the CW team have at least enough of a handle to make the other shows at least passably work, overall. And I've found most of Flash to be enjoyable so far.

    We won't be getting another movie for awhile, anyway, so I'm happy to give this a chance. I'll call it out if I don't like it, but I'm willing to give it a chance.
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  5. #125
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    This is huge. The idea that we're getting a Superman live-action TV show that actually features Superman is...well, a bigger deal than it should be in an ideal world.

    Funnily enough, of the three Supermen showing up in COIE, I pegged Hoechlin as the one who'd bite the dust. But now it does seem like if a Superman is dying, its most likely Routh (I doubt they'd bring back Welling just to kill him off when he's so explicitly the Smallville character...with Routh there's a little more lee-way in terms of which version he is).

    I think this has the potential to be an interesting show. Ultimately, only time will tell. As with any Superman project, it will have its fans and its detractors. But I appreciate the attempt to do something different with the character in live-action. The idea of Superman as a father (the ambiguous situation in Returns notwithstanding) has never really achieved the kind of wider pop-cultural resonance as, say, the Superman-Lois pairing or "Kneel before Zod!" and this could be a chance to make it part of the larger mainstream discourse about the character.

  6. #126
    Astonishing Member Yoda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valentis View Post
    It's not about us dismissing it. it's about another CW show that is already dismissible. Is anyone expecting this new Superman show would have the same quality and story telling that we saw with Legion, Daredevil or Watchmen or even Gotham on Fox. CW has always been the place of crap tv shows and crap writing.
    This is just nonsense. All but the worst seasons of the CW shows are on par with and likely exceed Daredevil, Legion, and certainly Gotham storytelling wise. Only production values and casting are better.

    Legion's first season was excellent, the rest pretentious nonsense. I haven't watched Watchmen yet, but the CW shows are pretty regularly just as good as Daredevil and certainly Gotham. Gotham was a mess from day one. Daredevil and the rest of the Netflix Marvel shows are more or less on par with the better seasons of Arrow at best with the general level of the writing and plotting about the same as Flash. Daredevil just had really well done fights and a great performance in Fisk. At its worst it was as poorly written and forgettable as any of the worst seasons of the CW shows. The Hand nonsense was as bad as anything Arrow put out at its worst. Iron Fist (which I enjoyed) has probably the worst four or five episodes (most of which are in it first season) of any of the super hero shows, with acting that makes CW look like the Sopranos. Titans is pretty good, but its first season is on par with some of the worst episodes of the CW shows with a few added curse words and ass shots.

    Doom Patrol was excellent and far better than all the Marvel shows, save maybe Jessica Jones first season.

    Arrow, Black Lightning Legends of Tomorrow, and Flash have been uneven, which comes with any serialized show, but all have excellent seasons. Arrow's 2nd & 5th seasons are better on the whole than Daredevil, Iron Fist, Defenders, and certainly the entirety of Gotham. Flash's 1st and 5th seasons are great.

    Legend's from the second season on has been f'n amazing. It's not serious by even the CW standards, but it's amazingly entertaining, very well written and just a goddamn joy.

    Even Supergirl, which I think is the weakest overall, has had good runs. This past season was probably one of its better ones with Cryer's Luthor and Red Daughter. Are all 22 episodes great? No. But no show with that many is. The Marvel series cranked out 4 or so stinker filler episodes in every single one of their seasons.

    I think a lot of this comes down to the this desire for Superman to be taken "seriously" and get some sort of adult "serious" show and not a family centered show with romantic elements (like all the successful Superman adaptations have been over the years). Cause it's not like you all are above praising poorly written, overdramatic nonsense - the Year One thread is hovering right around here. And CW is for "teens and girls" and is soap opera elements. Not the "dark" "edgy" stuff adult stuff. I mean, they already tried to Nolanize Superman and that didn't work.

    The best Superman book on the stands now is Superman Smashes the Klan. A book written for kids. I hope this hits the right balance and captures some of the best energy of the Flash and Legends myself.

  7. #127
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bat39 View Post
    This is huge. The idea that we're getting a Superman live-action TV show that actually features Superman is...well, a bigger deal than it should be in an ideal world.

    Funnily enough, of the three Supermen showing up in COIE, I pegged Hoechlin as the one who'd bite the dust. But now it does seem like if a Superman is dying, its most likely Routh (I doubt they'd bring back Welling just to kill him off when he's so explicitly the Smallville character...with Routh there's a little more lee-way in terms of which version he is).

    I think this has the potential to be an interesting show. Ultimately, only time will tell. As with any Superman project, it will have its fans and its detractors. But I appreciate the attempt to do something different with the character in live-action. The idea of Superman as a father (the ambiguous situation in Returns notwithstanding) has never really achieved the kind of wider pop-cultural resonance as, say, the Superman-Lois pairing or "Kneel before Zod!" and this could be a chance to make it part of the larger mainstream discourse about the character.
    The problem is ofcourse superman getting boxed in as just a father figure like he got boxed in as just a boyscout.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post

    I think a lot of this comes down to the this desire for Superman to be taken "seriously" and get some sort of adult "serious" show and not a family centered show with romantic elements (like all the successful Superman adaptations have been over the years).
    It comes from wanting to something new, meaningful, maybe aesthetically significant which we haven't seen like one million times.
    Educational town, Rolemodel city and Moralofthestory land are the places where good comics go to die.

    DC writers and editors looked up and shouted "Save us!"
    And Alan Moore looked down and whispered "No."

    I'm kinda surprised Snyder didn't want Superman to watch Lois and Bruce conceive their love child. All the while singing the "Na na na na na na Batman!" theme song - Robotman, 03/06/2021

  9. #129
    Extraordinary Member DragonPiece's Avatar
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    so what are the chacnes they age Jon up by the end of the first season? CW loves their drama and I could see them wanting to do some relationships on this show to make it relate to a teen audience

  10. #130
    Astonishing Member Yoda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonPiece View Post
    so what are the chacnes they age Jon up by the end of the first season? CW loves their drama and I could see them wanting to do some relationships on this show to make it relate to a teen audience
    I think it’s almost a given with the potential Crisis merger happening. They’ll jockey the timeline around a bit with that.

  11. #131

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    Love this news! Tyler Hoechlin's Superman has exceeded my expectations time and again. He's done more than almost any other actor to capture the spirit of Christopher Reeve's Superman. I'd love to see him at the forefront of a CW show.
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  12. #132
    Astonishing Member Yoda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myskin View Post
    It comes from wanting to something new, meaningful, maybe aesthetically significant which we haven't seen like one million times.
    This isn’t a new take? And why can’t it be meaningful?

    I’ll give you it’s unlikely to be any aesthetic achievement, but I suspect it’s going to pull more of the CW budget than other shows as it’ll likely be positioned as a flagship. Although look at Black Lightning, that show has probably the best look of all the CW shows.

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    This isn’t a new take? And why can’t it be meaningful?
    No. And no, because - as I have already said - this is CW, Berlanti and a spin-off of Supergirl, and it is 100% clear what we can expect here.
    Educational town, Rolemodel city and Moralofthestory land are the places where good comics go to die.

    DC writers and editors looked up and shouted "Save us!"
    And Alan Moore looked down and whispered "No."

    I'm kinda surprised Snyder didn't want Superman to watch Lois and Bruce conceive their love child. All the while singing the "Na na na na na na Batman!" theme song - Robotman, 03/06/2021

  14. #134
    Fantastic Member Valentis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    This is just nonsense. All but the worst seasons of the CW shows are on par with and likely exceed Daredevil, Legion, and certainly Gotham storytelling wise. Only production values and casting are better.

    Legion's first season was excellent, the rest pretentious nonsense. I haven't watched Watchmen yet, but the CW shows are pretty regularly just as good as Daredevil and certainly Gotham. Gotham was a mess from day one. Daredevil and the rest of the Netflix Marvel shows are more or less on par with the better seasons of Arrow at best with the general level of the writing and plotting about the same as Flash. Daredevil just had really well done fights and a great performance in Fisk. At its worst it was as poorly written and forgettable as any of the worst seasons of the CW shows. The Hand nonsense was as bad as anything Arrow put out at its worst. Iron Fist (which I enjoyed) has probably the worst four or five episodes (most of which are in it first season) of any of the super hero shows, with acting that makes CW look like the Sopranos. Titans is pretty good, but its first season is on par with some of the worst episodes of the CW shows with a few added curse words and ass shots.

    Doom Patrol was excellent and far better than all the Marvel shows, save maybe Jessica Jones first season.

    Arrow, Black Lightning Legends of Tomorrow, and Flash have been uneven, which comes with any serialized show, but all have excellent seasons. Arrow's 2nd & 5th seasons are better on the whole than Daredevil, Iron Fist, Defenders, and certainly the entirety of Gotham. Flash's 1st and 5th seasons are great.

    Legend's from the second season on has been f'n amazing. It's not serious by even the CW standards, but it's amazingly entertaining, very well written and just a goddamn joy.

    Even Supergirl, which I think is the weakest overall, has had good runs. This past season was probably one of its better ones with Cryer's Luthor and Red Daughter. Are all 22 episodes great? No. But no show with that many is. The Marvel series cranked out 4 or so stinker filler episodes in every single one of their seasons.

    I think a lot of this comes down to the this desire for Superman to be taken "seriously" and get some sort of adult "serious" show and not a family centered show with romantic elements (like all the successful Superman adaptations have been over the years). Cause it's not like you all are above praising poorly written, overdramatic nonsense - the Year One thread is hovering right around here. And CW is for "teens and girls" and is soap opera elements. Not the "dark" "edgy" stuff adult stuff. I mean, they already tried to Nolanize Superman and that didn't work.

    The best Superman book on the stands now is Superman Smashes the Klan. A book written for kids. I hope this hits the right balance and captures some of the best energy of the Flash and Legends myself.
    CW is a place for teeny bloopers and guilt pleasures. The writing in those shows has never been excellent. They have a reputation for a good first season by CW's own standards and everything falls apart. Legion, Daredevil and even Gotham and Lucifer are better than anything on CW. CW is cheap, they hire cheap people to make their shows and it hurts the quality of their shows.

    Any Superman show would be better if it was on Netflix, FX or HBO than the CW. This is not 15-20 years ago when we had The WB. The WB was a superior channel to the CW. There were some legitimately good critically acclaimed shows on WB like The Gilmore Girls, Felicity and Buffy the vampire slayer that are considered some of the greatest TV shows of all time. No CW show has ever reached and will ever reach that feat.

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valentis View Post
    CW is a place for teeny bloopers and guilt pleasures. The writing in those shows has never been excellent. They have a reputation for a good first season by CW's own standards and everything falls apart. Legion, Daredevil and even Gotham and Lucifer are better than anything on CW. CW is cheap, they hire cheap people to make their shows and it hurts the quality of their shows.
    I respect your opinion, but - just to be clear - I think that both Gotham and Lucifer are awful.
    Educational town, Rolemodel city and Moralofthestory land are the places where good comics go to die.

    DC writers and editors looked up and shouted "Save us!"
    And Alan Moore looked down and whispered "No."

    I'm kinda surprised Snyder didn't want Superman to watch Lois and Bruce conceive their love child. All the while singing the "Na na na na na na Batman!" theme song - Robotman, 03/06/2021

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