'Superman & Lois' in development at the CW

[Valentis]

I respect your opinion, but - just to be clear - I think that both Gotham and Lucifer are awful.

Fox are not considered the best TV channel for dramas, comedies, superhero shows. I can't remember when a Fox program was nominated for best drama at the Emmys,However they are still better than the CW. A Superman TV show would be better on Fox than the CW.

[Yoda]

CW is a place for teeny bloopers and guilt pleasures. The writing in those shows has never been excellent. They have a reputation for a good first season by CW's own standards and everything falls apart. Legion, Daredevil and even Gotham and Lucifer are better than anything on CW. CW is cheap, they hire cheap people to make their shows and it hurts the quality of their shows.

Any Superman show would be better if it was on Netflix, FX or HBO than the CW. This is not 15-20 years ago when we had The WB. The WB was a superior channel to the CW. There were some legitimately good critically acclaimed shows on WB like The Gilmore Girls, Felicity and Buffy the vampire slayer that are considered some of the greatest TV shows of all time. No CW show has ever reached and will ever reach that feat.

Thank you for citing Buffy, Felicity, and Gilmore Girls. Classics all, but all considered "guilty pleasure" and "teeny booper" shows. And I'd agree none of the CW shows have consistently reached their level of quality. The second and fifth seasons of Buffy are amazing and I still rewatch them regularly, but you have to factor in the fourth and sixth which are most certainly not on that level. Even the first season of Buffy is pretty cringy and doesn't find it's footing until the finale. I'd argue there are seasons - Arrow's second season, Flash's first - that are certainly on par with Buffy season 5.

I'm not arguing that this show wouldn't look better if it was on Netflix or FX or something, it obviously would. All the CW shows look like they were filmed in Vancover. But at the same time they can do a lot with those budgets and have been able to differentiate them aesthetically. Black Lightning for one has a much more distinct look. Legends is cheesy, but Beepo vs. Malus looked better than Trigun did on Titans. They did King Shark and Grodd justice on Flash. They can pull off Mongul or Doomsday.

[manwhohaseverything]

Thank you for citing Buffy, Felicity, and Gilmore Girls. Classics all, but all considered "guilty pleasure" and "teeny booper" shows. And I'd agree none of the CW shows have consistently reached their level of quality. The second and fifth seasons of Buffy are amazing and I still rewatch them regularly, but you have to factor in the fourth and sixth which are most certainly not on that level. Even the first season of Buffy is pretty cringy and doesn't find it's footing until the finale. I'd argue there are seasons - Arrow's second season, Flash's first - that are certainly on par with Buffy season 5.

I'm not arguing that this show wouldn't look better if it was on Netflix or FX or something, it obviously would. All the CW shows look like they were filmed in Vancover. But at the same time they can do a lot with those budgets and have been able to differentiate them aesthetically. Black Lightning for one has a much more distinct look. Legends is cheesy, but Beepo vs. Malus looked better than Trigun did on Titans. They did King Shark and Grodd justice on Flash. They can pull off Mongul or Doomsday.

Again, cgi is least of worry. The question is, is this show going to do something revolutionary and that is of great quality that will increase the value of the ip? Because that's what the ip needs right now. Not a cw teen drama or family drama. Batman has consistently pumped out great media adaptations last few decades. I don't think superman needs mediocrity right now. This is a superhero phase. People have started to think of superman as nothing special. Heck! Many don't even care. Being the first wouldn't matter. Superman could join guys like phantom, madrake.. Etc.

[Myskin]

Superman could join guys like phantom, madrake.. Etc.

I think that it is pretty clear that Superman has been going down that path - slowly but inexorably - for some time now.

[Valentis]

Thank you for citing Buffy, Felicity, and Gilmore Girls. Classics all, but all considered "guilty pleasure" and "teeny booper" shows. And I'd agree none of the CW shows have consistently reached their level of quality. The second and fifth seasons of Buffy are amazing and

Buffy, Felicity, Gilmore girls are not guilty pleasures or for teeny bloopers alone. You misunderstood me. They are hands down great shows, among the greatest to ever grace the small screen, It's what makes them different from this current CW shows. The first season of Buffy is dated and every 90s. I won't say its cringy. Vampire diaries was cringy and that show wrapped up shy of 2 years ago. I would take the worst Buffy season to any season of the Vampire diaries or any CW show. I can't begin to start with the crap that is Riverdale that I believe is the flagship show on the CW.

I still rewatch them regularly, but you have to factor in the fourth and sixth which are most certainly not on that level. Even the first season of Buffy is pretty cringy and doesn't find it's footing until the finale. I'd argue there are seasons - Arrow's second season, Flash's first - that are certainly on par with Buffy season 5.

I thought Buffy season 5 had some of the worst writing on the show, The Dawn story was poorly executed and farfetched. Dawn was not even needed in the end, since Buffy turned out to be a key herself. Season 2 and 3 are the best Buffy seasons.

I'm not arguing that this show wouldn't look better if it was on Netflix or FX or something, it obviously would. All the CW shows look like they were filmed in Vancover. But at the same time they can do a lot with those budgets and have been able to differentiate them aesthetically. Black Lightning for one has a much more distinct look. Legends is cheesy, but Beepo vs. Malus looked better than Trigun did on Titans. They did King Shark and Grodd justice on Flash. They can pull off Mongul or Doomsday.

I am arguing Superman deserves better. CW superhero shows are now too absorbed in eachother. Batwoman may not make it to season 3. What WB needs to do is to make a plan on what they want for Superman. They can just let go of Superman movies, remove him for DC movies and actually spend money on making a high quality Superman show. That obviously can't happen on the CW. HBO or Netflix would be the best place to do it.

[manwhohaseverything]

I think that it is pretty clear that Superman has been going down that path - slowly but inexorably - for some time now.

It's funny. But, i am i stuck with loving characters that people seemed to have forgotten or are forgetting.it seems i have thing for characters of 1930s

[Myskin]

It's funny. But, i am i stuck with loving characters that people seemed to have forgotten or are forgetting.it seems i have thing for characters of 1930s

Maybe. Most of them are cultural icons. The problem is, they are more apt to become part of a university essay about pop culture from the past, rather than being featured in a real story or a real movie.
Some icons age better than others. Sherlock Holmes and Dracula are aging better than Superman.

[Dralokonda]

So guys, are you saying right now we should all consider just giving up on superman, there is no redemption or rising from the ashes for him. We should just sit back and let the character fade into obscurity and let anime knockoffs like goku, one punch man and all might take his place. Hope is dead?

[manwhohaseverything]

Maybe. Most of them are cultural icons. The problem is, they are more apt to become part of a university essay about pop culture from the past, rather than being featured in a real story or a real movie.
Some icons age better than others. Sherlock Holmes and Dracula are aging better than Superman.

also, captain america seemed to have turned things around this late in his existence. Atleast for the time being. I wonder how many of the character at marvel will get to maturity supes has and how many will be forgotten.fantastic four is something that is also in trouble as an ip.But,marvel as a brand is so strong right now. Ff can turn things around .
As for being cultural icons superman i don't think superman is inferior. We still have guys being influenced by superman and had made successful shows based on the archetype. As i said, allmight, one punch man.. Etc still are new characters that are based on superman archetype. Heck! Goku and adult gohan are influenced by superman.

[manwhohaseverything]

So guys, are you saying right now we should all consider just giving up on superman, there is no redemption or rising from the ashes for him. We should just sit back and let the character fade into obscurity and let anime knockoffs like goku, one punch man and all might take his place. Hope is dead?

I don't know. At the very least superman will be alive in those forms.

[Digifiend]

With this being the CW I wouldn't be surprised if they decided to make Superman's son into Superman's daughter. Jon will now be Josephine or something.

A daughter of Clark would probably be called Martha.

Fox are not considered the best TV channel for dramas, comedies, superhero shows. I can't remember when a Fox program was nominated for best drama at the Emmys,However they are still better than the CW. A Superman TV show would be better on Fox than the CW.

While the Fox network wasn't taken over by Disney, a lot of their shows (anything made by 20th Century Fox Television) were, as were it's secondary channels FX and FXX. As such, if Fox aired a superhero show, it would probably be Marvel, not DC.

[Vordan]

Nah Clark’s daughters get named Lara if we go by tradition. Also I don’t like at all the practice of naming kids after dead parents, it’s why I’m glad Bruce didn’t get to name any of his kids.

Maybe. Most of them are cultural icons. The problem is, they are more apt to become part of a university essay about pop culture from the past, rather than being featured in a real story or a real movie.
Some icons age better than others. Sherlock Holmes and Dracula are aging better than Superman.

This is pure hyperbole. Sherlock Holmes is not aging better than Supes lmao. Dracula has never fallen off though, he’s always been one of the best villains. And Supes is getting a TV show and two animated movies, he’s one of three characters who can support three ongoings. He’s getting more focus now than he has in decades. The past decade has been one of his worst but he’s not in any danger of falling by the wayside if for no other reason than because he and Batman still have to fight.

Go compare what happened to Green Lantern after Johns left and tell me Supes has it worse than him. Now that’s a character who has legitimately completely fallen off.

[Vakanai]

So, considering this is WB, who don't usually believe a character should have both a film series and a tv series, does this mean I should abandon hopes of Superman getting another movie in the next decade?

[Myskin]

As for being cultural icons superman i don't think superman is inferior.

I don't think that it is possible to think of these icons in terms of inferiority or superiority. It doesn't make sense. To put it simply, some icons become dated earlier than others, no matter how popular they were in their days. Flash Gordon was extremely popular and important and influenced a lot of works which followed, but it belongs to the past now. Doc Savage and John Carter influenced Superman and they are a thing of the past too. Superman will become a thing of the past one day, no matter how popular he was in the 1950s.
Also, I wouldn't say that Dragon Ball was influenced by Superman. I mean, there are some jokes/references (there were in Toriyama's Dr Slump as well), but the influences from purely Asian works like Hong Kong movies and the ancient Chinese novel Journey to the West, are way stronger than Superman's.

[Myskin]

This is pure hyperbole. Sherlock Holmes is not aging better than Supes lmao.

There have been two popular Sherlock-related movies with Robert Downey Jr in the latest years, a third one is in the works and there has been an immensely popular TV series with some of the finest British actors. The same guys who did Sherlock are currently producing a new Dracula series. Which is more than we could say about Superman in the latest 20 years.


EDIT I forgot about Elementary. Which was terrible, but lasted for 7 years. I'd like to consider it the "CW-style Sherlock".