'Superman & Lois' in development at the CW

[Vordan]

Sure, but anyone who has been in a long-term relationship knows there can be plenty of relationship drama without the specter of adultery looming overhead.

But having two teen sons will allow for that in a more organic way without blowing up a beloved pairing like Lois and Clark.

Yeah but “nuance” is not something I expect from the CW so I’d rather not take that chance.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Yeah but “nuance” is not something I expect from the CW so I’d rather not take that chance.

I don’t think it’s just a CW problem. Writing long term relationships has proven to be a tough nut to crack for a lot of writers rooms

[Robanker]

Yeah but “nuance” is not something I expect from the CW so I’d rather not take that chance.

Unassailable logic there.

I don’t think it’s just a CW problem. Writing long term relationships has proven to be a tough nut to crack for a lot of writers rooms

This is also a fair point to make, though I'd argue the CW is notoriously weak at it.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Unassailable logic there.



This is also a fair point to make, though I'd argue the CW is notoriously weak at it.

Agreed, but the CW is notoriously weak at pretty much everything. As much as I think they've been an invaluable tool for keeping the DC characters going in live action while the DCEU floundered around trying to figure out what it was going to be, those shows have suffered from every imaginable weakness that weekly TV shows can have, from mediocre scripts with bad characterization and plotting to under funded SFX and behind the scenes problems with actors and producers.

The CW has been a real smorgasbord of subpar superhero TV as far back as Smallville. And yet we keep hoping and giving them another chance because, every once and awhile, they absolutely stick the landing and deliver some great stuff.

[Robanker]

Agreed, but the CW is notoriously weak at pretty much everything. As much as I think they've been an invaluable tool for keeping the DC characters going in live action while the DCEU floundered around trying to figure out what it was going to be, those shows have suffered from every imaginable weakness that weekly TV shows can have, from mediocre scripts with bad characterization and plotting to under funded SFX and behind the scenes problems with actors and producers.

The CW has been a real smorgasbord of subpar superhero TV as far back as Smallville. And yet we keep hoping and giving them another chance because, every once and awhile, they absolutely stick the landing and deliver some great stuff.

That's also superhero comic fandom. Maybe we and the CW deserve each other.

[Vordan]

For all their many, many flaws, both Arrow and The Flash massively helped raise Ollie and Barry’s profiles amongst the general public. Flash in particular has had a huge boost in popularity, with Barry firmly supplanting Wally as *the* Flash amongst casuals, something inconceivable back during the 00s. People know who Barry’s Rogues are, they know Iris is his love interest, they know about the Speed Force, they know all that nerd ****. It’s made people care about and connect with Flash to the point that he managed to sustain a 100 issue double shipping run under Williamson.

I’ll be blunt, I want some of that for Superman especially in the wake of the dumpsterfire that is the DCEU, and the toxic influence of the video games Evil Supermen. He needs stories being told in the public eye that aren’t just origins, dying, or turning evil (which we were going to get in two video games and the goddamn cinematic universe). The trailer has people excited and talking about Superman in a positive way, I’ll take that warts and all in a heartbeat. Get people to care about him again with a TV show and maybe it will get WB to give a damn about him elsewhere. At any rate it’s certainly not going to hurt at all to have, there’s nothing it could do that would be worst than Injustice.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

For all their many, many flaws, both Arrow and The Flash massively helped raise Ollie and Barry’s profiles amongst the general public. Flash in particular has had a huge boost in popularity, with Barry firmly supplanting Wally as *the* Flash amongst casuals, something inconceivable back during the 00s. People know who Barry’s Rogues are, they know Iris is his love interest, they know about the Speed Force, they know all that nerd ****. It’s made people care about and connect with Flash to the point that he managed to sustain a 100 issue double shipping run under Williamson.

I’ll be blunt, I want some of that for Superman especially in the wake of the dumpsterfire that is the DCEU, and the toxic influence of the video games Evil Supermen. He needs stories being told in the public eye that aren’t just origins, dying, or turning evil (which we were going to get in two video games and the goddamn cinematic universe). The trailer has people excited and talking about Superman in a positive way, I’ll take that warts and all in a heartbeat. Get people to care about him again with a TV show and maybe it will get WB to give a damn about him elsewhere. At any rate it’s certainly not going to hurt at all to have, there’s nothing it could do that would be worst than Injustice.

But if Superman wasn't turning evil or dying, what stories could we possibly tell with him?

I'm right there with you in hopes that this will turn the tide and hopefully steer the character towards something more bright and fun, but I suspect this show isn't going to do much in terms of having a big cultural impact.

I've showed the trailer to a few of my students and it hasn't really generated any of the excitement that Arrow, The Flash, or Supergirl did.

Even my wife took one look at the poster and remarked that the actor playing Superman looked like a date rapist

[Robanker]

But if Superman wasn't turning evil or dying, what stories could we possibly tell with him?

I'm right there with you in hopes that this will turn the tide and hopefully steer the character towards something more bright and fun, but I suspect this show isn't going to do much in terms of having a big cultural impact.

I've showed the trailer to a few of my students and it hasn't really generated any of the excitement that Arrow, The Flash, or Supergirl did.

Even my wife took one look at the poster and remarked that the actor playing Superman looked like a date rapist

Ones where he dies and turns evil?

Also, goddamn that's brutal. lol

[Vordan]

But if Superman wasn't turning evil or dying, what stories could we possibly tell with him?

I'm right there with you in hopes that this will turn the tide and hopefully steer the character towards something more bright and fun, but I suspect this show isn't going to do much in terms of having a big cultural impact.

I've showed the trailer to a few of my students and it hasn't really generated any of the excitement that Arrow, The Flash, or Supergirl did.

Even my wife took one look at the poster and remarked that the actor playing Superman looked like a date rapist

Damn I’ll never understand why so many people have it out for Hoechlin lol.

Yeah I don’t agree with Dispenser’s take that this show is going to be a big definitive thing. The DCEU failures and the video games are unfortunately going to continue to have a much greater impact on how people view Superman. However I think saying that this won’t have any impact at all is wrong, and if it’s well received it could grow its audience over time. Part of what’s hampering the show imo is three things:

1. There’s some pretty set in stone expectations of what a CW show is about. Teen/YA drama, angst, shipping wars, super hot people having sex with each other and then breaking up in ugly ways, etc. That’s not going to be the case here (hopefully) with Clark & Lois. They’re married and they’re not going to break up, this show seems to be more about the family than about one lead, and while none of the leads are ugly, they aren’t teen heartthrob bait either. In other words this is more like Black Lightning than Flash. But I don’t know if people are aware of that, or if they’re feeling superhero TV fatigue.

2. People had already written Hoechlin off after Supergirl used him to prop Kara up. This view is dumb though, the trailer clearly shows you which of the two is getting some serious money to perform “feats” and it isn’t Kara. And to be honest given how many people have hard ons for Batman beating the **** out of Supes I find it the height of hypocrisy to cry foul about a Superman jobbing to someone else.

3. There’s some people who are mad this exists because they think it’s “stealing” the spotlight from Cavill. But Cavill is basically done and has been for a while. There were never any plans for more Superman solo films under Snyder, Cavill Superman was going to be the villain of JL2 & JL3. Hoechlin isn’t “stealing” crap from Cavill, dude is just done with the role. Maybe he’ll cameo in Shazam or show up to get his ass beat by the Rock (notice how nobody whines about THAT making Superman weak), but as a solo entity Cavill’s number was up when MoS disappointed. I’ve got zero interest in seeing him take up the cape again, least Hoechlin’s show will be focusing on him, and he can actually showcase a wider range of emotions beyond “stoic stare” and “mild expression of discomfort”.

I hope the show will win people over in time, maybe it will be a Titans case where everyone hates on it online, but the actual numbers are very good. This show is clearly aimed at driving up HBO Max numbers alongside the CW audience, hence the wider budget. A lot of people will hopefully see this show, that’s why I’m praying it’s good and we get to see more aspects of Superman lore we’ve never seen. Villains beyond Lex and Zod, the Fortress of Solitude explored more, Clark & Lois married, it’s a chance to showcase the wider Supermythos that Snyder never had any interest in exploring.

And if it all fails and flops oh well, we won’t be any worse off than we are right now. So there’s no lose condition here for me at least. But it’s nice to feel excited and optimistic for a bit of Superman media instead of dreading what horrors NRS and Snyder will inflict on my favorite character this time.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Also, goddamn that's brutal. lol

Yeah, that one stung and was my first hint that the casting of Superman is an incredibly hard task to pull off successfully.

You cast a date rapey looking actor for Batman? No problem, that's just a bold creative direction, but any actor playing Superman's gotta pull off a freaking miracle managing all the expectations placed upon him.

To be fair, Tyler does play a magnificent scumbag so I can kinda see it. Hopefully, he gets to play Bizarro at some point.

[Robanker]

Yeah, that one stung and was my first hint that the casting of Superman is an incredibly hard task to pull off successfully.

You cast a date rapey looking actor for Batman? No problem, that's just a bold creative direction, but any actor playing Superman's gotta pull off a freaking miracle managing all the expectations placed upon him.

To be fair, Tyler does play a magnificent scumbag so I can kinda see it. Hopefully, he gets to play Bizarro at some point.

The weight of the character's myth is surpassed only by the criticism of people who never read his material but seemingly have an encyclopedic knowledge of his every nuance.

[Celgress]

It would also be problematic to cancel Supergirl and then introduce another... super girl especially to get rid of a legit comic character and create someone entirely new for the show... Not sure how that would play out.

Maybe, but I still would have preferred a daughter rather than two sons. Not that it matters as I typically don't watch CW shows beyond a few episodes. I find very little appealing about them and their approach to storytelling. I never enjoyed soap operas when I was a kid either (I found them far too melodramatic and overall ridiculous) so maybe they aren't for me.

[rpmaluki]

Es6pJ7AW4AIuTMJ.jpg

Den of Geek cover.

[Nelliebly]

Unassailable logic there.



This is also a fair point to make, though I'd argue the CW is notoriously weak at it.

Friday Night Lights was exceptionally good at it which is why they piqued my interest when they described that show as an influence.

I would also add “This is Us.” The more I think about what they seem to be going for with this show with the family aspect front and center, the more I think about the way that show has kept Jack and Rebecca’s marriage as the rock both in the past, present and future.

Obviously Outlander has done a great job of making a marriage the center of a series for 5 seasons.

It most definitely can be done and I’m definitely nervous that Todd Helbing is not up to the task. But I’m really, really praying I’m wrong.

[Nelliebly]

Es6pJ7AW4AIuTMJ.jpg

Den of Geek cover.

All my continued worries and Qualms about the show aside, these two look extremely good together.