'Superman & Lois' in development at the CW

[SiegePerilous02]

Honestly man, it's another Arrowverse show on CW. We've had something like five of those now? I feel like we have a pretty good idea of what the show is going to be like, between CW's formula and the Superdad synopsis they posted.

I'm not a fan of the CW's melodrama. I put up with it for a few years just because these were DC characters but the shows don't do it for me. Im not the target demo and the odds of them making a Superman show that I like are pretty slim. I'll watch the trailers for this and maybe give the pilot episode a shot, just because this is Superman and there's always that outside chance of them doing something I like. But the odds aren't good at all. I'm not being cynical here, this is just recognizing that I'm not the kind of viewer CW appeals to.

I don't even know if WB back when it was good would be capable of producing a Superman show I'd be interested in. I never watched Smallville, I honestly do not feel like I missed out on anything except for maybe Rosenbaum and Glover. And even before the transition to the CW, the canceling of Angel was the death knell for the WB IMO.

[The Kid]

'Sherlock' was only well-received for the first two seasons. It fell off hard after that. In that way, this show will be received well as well since all CW shows are at least liked by their core audience. And Man of Steel made more than both RDJ Sherlock Holmes movies. I think people are going too far into doom and gloom with regards to Superman's appeal.

And when was the last time Dracula had a major pop culture release in any media? I can only think of that Van Helsing movie from like 15 years back. It's a reach to say he's aged better than Superman when the vampires from Twilight have had more recent success than Dracula

[manwhohaseverything]

I don't even know if WB back when it was good would be capable of producing a Superman show I'd be interested in. I never watched Smallville, I honestly do not feel like I missed out on anything except for maybe Rosenbaum and Glover. And even before the transition to the CW, the canceling of Angel was the death knell for the WB IMO.

Smallville was not quality tv. But, it was something i grew up with. Suffice to say it has not aged well. I don't think you will like it. But, there parts of it that are still relevant i believe. Especially, green arrow.

[SiegePerilous02]

'Sherlock' was only well-received for the first two seasons. It fell off hard after that. In that way, this show will be received well as well since all CW shows are at least liked by their core audience. And Man of Steel made more than both RDJ Sherlock Holmes movies. I think people are going too far into doom and gloom with regards to Superman's appeal.

And when was the last time Dracula had a major pop culture release in any media? I can only think of that Van Helsing movie from like 15 years back. It's a reach to say he's aged better than Superman when the vampires from Twilight have had more recent success than Dracula

There was Dracula Untold.
...So I think you're right that Drac isn't doing so hot currently.

Smallville was not quality tv. But, it was something i grew up with. Suffice to say it has not aged well. I don't think you will like it. But, there parts of it that are still relevant i believe. Especially, green arrow.

I caught the end of a Smallville episode while I was waiting for Angel to start, I belive in 2004 (it was the final season of Angel).
I agree, it didn't look very good. Plus I'm just plain not interested in 10+ seasons or whatever of a Superman show where he deals with practically the entire mythos before he becomes Superman. Same deal with Gotham. It just seems so stupid to me.

[Vakanai]

Huzzah! Finally, some good Jon news. Looking forward to it.

As someone who thinks the only good Jon news would be "There's no more Jon!" I'm not looking forward to this, at all. I'll still watch it, but I'm not feeling any excitement or hype at all. Not even a little bit. Which sucks considering normally I would be for a Superman show. Careful what you wish for I guess.

[Vakanai]

To be fair, it's a totally separate group from a creative perspective, WB's just signing off on it.

Yeah, but knowing WB they probably wouldn't have signed off on it if they had any film plans, or even hopes of a film plan in the next decade.

[DochaDocha]

I caught the end of a Smallville episode while I was waiting for Angel to start, I belive in 2004 (it was the final season of Angel).
I agree, it didn't look very good. Plus I'm just plain not interested in 10+ seasons or whatever of a Superman show where he deals with practically the entire mythos before he becomes Superman. Same deal with Gotham. It just seems so stupid to me.

I really hated that show, but I had to take a step back and just remind myself that 1) it's for "them," not me and 2) it's really just a wonky Elseworlds Superman set in what's essentially Dawson's Creek. I can't give people a hard time for liking that, but I never will.

I just don't think low-budget live-action really is the right way to go with Superman. I think if you wanted a low-budget show, you could do something like Byrne's "World of Metropolis" storyline, but I don't think I would have the patience to watch something that extended beyond one Netflix/Amazon season.

[manwhohaseverything]

I caught the end of a Smallville episode while I was waiting for Angel to start, I belive in 2004 (it was the final season of Angel).
I agree, it didn't look very good. Plus I'm just plain not interested in 10+ seasons or whatever of a Superman show where he deals with practically the entire mythos before he becomes Superman. Same deal with Gotham. It just seems so stupid to me.

I think the best parts of smallville are lex, Lionel , oliver and lois. The first 4 seasons doesn't much touch superman mythos. But later seasons do. Especially, when he starts the job at Metropolis. Clark becomes vigilante named "the blur" who doesn't show his face and uses superspeed . The show should have changed name to Metropolis in my opinion.

[David Walton]

I think the best parts of smallville are lex, Lionel , oliver and lois. The first 4 seasons doesn't much touch superman mythos. But later seasons do. Especially, when he starts the job at Metropolis. Clark becomes vigilante named "the blur" who doesn't show his face and uses superspeed . The show should have changed name to Metropolis in my opinion.

Loved SMALLVILLE, warts and all, but prolonging Clark's true destiny became a problem, especially after Pa Kent died. The show's solution worked well enough, though, in that Oliver's heroism was more fully developed while we waited on Clark to achieve his destiny. For a few years it was basically GREEN ARROW co-starring Clark Kent!

[Flash Gordon]

Honestly, a JIMMY OLSEN dramedy or a SUPERBOY show that follows the Kon-El from TITANS would have been a much better SUPERMAN show. Titans and Doom Patrol are both quality and the world they inhabit is much more interesting than anything else WB/DC has on screen outside of Aquaman and Shazam. Superman is unfortunately more of a sterile icon now, than a character (Morrison, Lobdell, and Bendis aside- they all clearly want to get into the character and his world). So maybe if we were to watch him operate in his world, through the eyes of others, there'd be some juice there?

Superman in his Donner aesthetics doesn't really work in 2019. I rewatched SUPERMAN RETURNS the other night, for the first time in ages, and kept thinking about how much more effective the entire film would be if it just leaned entirely into camp. The line it walked was so frustating because it neither worked as a dramatic epic it wanted to be or as a campy romp, but instead walked this weird line between the two. Man of Steel at least had a vision and agency to it, even if it drops the ball on really reinventing a modern Superman (Clark just...gets a job as a journalist?)

We need a fresh look at Superman, and maybe seeing him through the eyes of his reckless best friend- Jimmy Olsen, or a troubled teenage clone Conner, would be more interesting? A cheap Superman show with CW level storytelling is just such a hard miss.

[manwhohaseverything]

Loved SMALLVILLE, warts and all, but prolonging Clark's true destiny became a problem, especially after Pa Kent died. The show's solution worked well enough, though, in that Oliver's heroism was more fully developed while we waited on Clark to achieve his destiny. For a few years it was basically GREEN ARROW co-starring Clark Kent!

And he acted like green arrow too not like batman. I think the reasoning was justified. Clark basically at first didn't want to leave the farm. He was happy being a farmer in memory of pa. Then lois and legion came into picture. Clark had reasons to move on without letting go. Also, clark's hate for capes and costumes(both in reality and in show) didn't help either. He refused to play clumsy clark. Lois had to make him. It was one of the best thing show did. I imagine clark would hate living a lie.

[stargazer01]

I really hated that show, but I had to take a step back and just remind myself that 1) it's for "them," not me and 2) it's really just a wonky Elseworlds Superman set in what's essentially Dawson's Creek. I can't give people a hard time for liking that, but I never will.

I just don't think low-budget live-action really is the right way to go with Superman. I think if you wanted a low-budget show, you could do something like Byrne's "World of Metropolis" storyline, but I don't think I would have the patience to watch something that extended beyond one Netflix/Amazon season.

I really expect this new Superman show to be similar to Supergirl.. and Lois to be more mature and emotionally strong than Clark... because the CW treats this Superman as inferior to women. yay.

[SiegePerilous02]

Honestly, a JIMMY OLSEN dramedy or a SUPERBOY show that follows the Kon-El from TITANS would have been a much better SUPERMAN show. Titans and Doom Patrol are both quality and the world they inhabit is much more interesting than anything else WB/DC has on screen outside of Aquaman and Shazam. Superman is unfortunately more of a sterile icon now, than a character (Morrison, Lobdell, and Bendis aside- they all clearly want to get into the character and his world). So maybe if we were to watch him operate in his world, through the eyes of others, there'd be some juice there?

Superman in his Donner aesthetics doesn't really work in 2019. I rewatched SUPERMAN RETURNS the other night, for the first time in ages, and kept thinking about how much more effective the entire film would be if it just leaned entirely into camp. The line it walked was so frustating because it neither worked as a dramatic epic it wanted to be or as a campy romp, but instead walked this weird line between the two. Man of Steel at least had a vision and agency to it, even if it drops the ball on really reinventing a modern Superman (Clark just...gets a job as a journalist?)

We need a fresh look at Superman, and maybe seeing him through the eyes of his reckless best friend- Jimmy Olsen, or a troubled teenage clone Conner, would be more interesting? A cheap Superman show with CW level storytelling is just such a hard miss.

I don't really agree that we need to look at Superman through the eyes of another character (though spin offs in addition to a solo show for him would be fine) but I do agree that the Donner aesthetics need to fucking go away already.

[Superfan90]

That's Elementary for you. Sherlock is universally acclaimed and praised as one of the finest adaptations of Conan Doyle's works. Faithful to the spirit of the books, and sometimes to the plot of the stories as well. You don't like it? Fine, nobody forces you to like it, but could we just please put this entire thing beyond the trite "I like it/I don't like it" line? Come on. Could we just discuss in objective terms, that is that Sherlock is one of the most popular, multi-awarded TV series of the latest years, with a huge following even outside the country where they were made? Am I supposed to copy and paste a list of the awards it won? Are we seriously putting it in the same league with the Death of Superman/Reign of Superman DVDs which, no matter how many fans liked them, are not even remotely popular as other works?

Downey Sherlock and Sherlock TV series are updated revamp/reinvention of icons whose original dynamics, no matter how old they are, still work. That's the point here. Reinvention. Revamp. Like Batman in basically every recent adaptation. Not like the umpteenth version of the Superman/Lois romance, with Donnerlike aesthetics.

And why this "gloom and doom" thing? Every cultural icon dies at one point. James Bond and Batman will become dated at one point. That's the way pop culture works. Superman is clearly more dated than other icons at this point in his long, long life. Will they relaunch/revamp him in a meaningful way? Maybe. That's not the direction they are taking, though.

It's not that I won't survive if Superman disappears. I mean come on. It's just a piece of fiction in an ocean of books, comics, movies. There are so many interesting things besides Superman.

Sherlock is universally acclaimed? Sherlock is a bastardized version of how Sherlock Holmes is perceived in pop culture. Elementry is FAR superior to it in both aesthetically and adaptation of how Doyle thought Holmes as a character worked.

Sherlock is all style and no substance. Its popular yes, but ask any Holmes affictionado and they will tell you how it's basically a psychopathic Superman as a detective.

[Flash Gordon]

I don't really agree that we need to look at Superman through the eyes of another character (though spin offs in addition to a solo show for him would be fine) but I do agree that the Donner aesthetics need to fucking go away already.

I'm not entirely sold either, but I'm unsure as to anyone having strong ideas on who Superman is and how he works in our world. I'm not saying he needs to fit snuggly into 2019 context either, a campy Superman or a period piece film in the 30s...all that sounds golden- as long as it is going somewhere interesting and new.