'Superman & Lois' : The CW TV Series

[Frontier]

Any amount of baseball cards is worth selling if it means getting to see Lois Lane in a fancy dress.

Is this the first time they've canonically used the name "Bizarro" in the show?

So...Lana and John Henry Irons are totally going to be a thing, huh? I wonder if they're going to happen for real by the end of the season.

I never thought a Superman show would tackle Lois Lane losing her breasts as part of her cancer treatment but SM&L is just built different.

John Henry Irons and Clark are both emotionally invested in this case in different ways and because of their own experiences. I'm curious if Clark would be as understanding and empathetic had Lois not been going through cancer herself and bonding with Peia, though Superman's empathy is one of his greatest weapons. And it might've solved this without violence if both Manheim and John Henry Irons weren't out for blood.

Nat hitting Jon where it hurts with the Candace thing.

Clark Kent so wholesome his first thought about a Hooters establishment is the food and not the boobs.

I'm glad Nat and Matteo got to see each other again, even exchanging "I love you's" (how long have they been dating again?) even though I feel like this division between their parents and their own perspective on it might still drive them apart. Especially because Matteo will become as determined to save his mom as Bruno is.

Well, RIP Henry Miller for good. I can't say he was a great guy by any stretch of the imagination, but I don't know if he deserved his body getting experimented on and continually revived/died. And John Henry killing him is being framed as him losing control of himself.

Although to be honest the guy set out to kill Superman from day one, it doesn't surprise me that he'd eventually drop some bodies.

It's funny how Lois didn't even actually win the award. Though the limo sex was a nice treat, if nothing else.

Can't beat a romantic air dance between our favorite couple!

Still don't think mixing people with Kryptonian blood, especially Inverse!Kryptonian blood, is a good idea.

[Captain Craig]

I guess Elizabeth Tulloch isn't eligible until next year for an Emmy so if she isn't at bare minimum nominated there is crime to be reported.
She is flat exceling at her craft in this story arc.

I don't buy the "I love you's", both are just escaping their parents at this point and they've been on like 3 dates.

Clark/Superman came down too hard on John, Miller was going to kill him if Warhammer wasn't summoned. So yeah, the choice was get critically hit hard and/or die by Miller or defend myself. That was the choice and John made the right one.

Yes, Lana and John are going to end up a thing. It has been soft peddled till now but this episode actually applied pressure to the pedal.

Bizarro blood for the cure? That might be true but it may also make Peia something....more.

[Agent Z]

I never expected to see a conversation like the one Lois and Lana had in a Superman show. Or any superhero show. Great job on the writers, director and actors.

I feel like Sam and Clark were harder on John than he deserved. I know they empathize with Mannheim, but they're also ignoring what John has also been through.

spoilers:

"You always have a choice". Not everyone is you, Clark. And no, John did not have a choice. This was a clear cut case of self-defense.

end of spoilers

[Frontier]

I guess Elizabeth Tulloch isn't eligible until next year for an Emmy so if she isn't at bare minimum nominated there is crime to be reported.
She is flat exceling at her craft in this story arc.

I don't buy the "I love you's", both are just escaping their parents at this point and they've been on like 3 dates.

Clark/Superman came down too hard on John, Miller was going to kill him if Warhammer wasn't summoned. So yeah, the choice was get critically hit hard and/or die by Miller or defend myself. That was the choice and John made the right one.

Yes, Lana and John are going to end up a thing. It has been soft peddled till now but this episode actually applied pressure to the pedal.

Bizarro blood for the cure? That might be true but it may also make Peia something....more.

Hey, it worked for Jordan and Sarah! Oh wait...

[Anarchist]

The only thing that annoyed me was Lois talking about her hair loss. Yeah, what hair loss? xP

Other than that, great episode, very emotional.

[Huntsman Spider]

Generally cosigning everyone here that's commented so far, especially on the issue that maybe, just maybe, Clark and Sam are being a little too harsh on John there. Granted, the optics of killing someone in the middle of the street in full view of witnesses and bystanders aren't ideal, to say the least, but the guy was gonna kill him first, so I do agree some allowance for self-defense should be made. However, I do think what they're worried about is John losing himself in his vendetta against Mannheim for having his counterpart murdered, on top of threatening said counterpart's sister and his own daughter, more than just the whole "killing someone in the middle of the street" thing, and they might be right to be worried. Basically, both sides have valid points.

And yes, kudos to Superman & Lois for handling Lois's cancer situation with such nuance, grace, and frankly competence thus far.

[Agent Z]

Generally cosigning everyone here that's commented so far, especially on the issue that maybe, just maybe, Clark and Sam are being a little too harsh on John there. Granted, the optics of killing someone in the middle of the street in full view of witnesses and bystanders aren't ideal, to say the least, but the guy was gonna kill him first, so I do agree some allowance for self-defense should be made. However, I do think what they're worried about is John losing himself in his vendetta against Mannheim for having his counterpart murdered, on top of threatening said counterpart's sister and his own daughter, more than just the whole "killing someone in the middle of the street" thing, and they might be right to be worried. Basically, both sides have valid points.

Here are the problems as I see it:

1) John is not unreasonable in his actions throughout this episode. Ruthlessly pragmatic perhaps, but not unreasonable. Regardless of how much empathy you have for her, she is still a criminal who has killed and tried to kill several people, including Lana, John and Clark's youngest son. Using her as a bargaining chip to get back what Mannheim stole may not be ideal but it isn't inherently a bad plan.

I also don't see John's decision to keep Natalie away from Matteo as unjustified. Matteo might be innocent in all of this, but he is still the son of a ruthless mob boss who has shown no scruples about threatening John's family.

2) There is also the optics of Superman castigating a black man for defending himself against a superpowered white supremacist.



And yes, kudos to Superman & Lois for handling Lois's cancer situation with such nuance, grace, and frankly competence thus far.[/QUOTE]

[Frontier]

Here are the problems as I see it:

1) John is not unreasonable in his actions throughout this episode. Ruthlessly pragmatic perhaps, but not unreasonable. Regardless of how much empathy you have for her, she is still a criminal who has killed and tried to kill several people, including Lana, John and Clark's youngest son. Using her as a bargaining chip to get back what Mannheim stole may not be ideal but it isn't inherently a bad plan.

I also don't see John's decision to keep Natalie away from Matteo as unjustified. Matteo might be innocent in all of this, but he is still the son of a ruthless mob boss who has shown no scruples about threatening John's family.

2) There is also the optics of Superman castigating a black man for defending himself against a superpowered white supremacist.



And yes, kudos to Superman & Lois for handling Lois's cancer situation with such nuance, grace, and frankly competence thus far.

[/QUOTE]
I think it's just that the lack of empathy seems to have just made things worse. Like you get why he's so angry but it's given him tunnel vision that just continually escalated the conflict, and using a dying woman as a bargaining chip is just a bad look even if she is a bad guy.

[Huntsman Spider]

Here are the problems as I see it:

1) John is not unreasonable in his actions throughout this episode. Ruthlessly pragmatic perhaps, but not unreasonable. Regardless of how much empathy you have for her, she is still a criminal who has killed and tried to kill several people, including Lana, John and Clark's youngest son. Using her as a bargaining chip to get back what Mannheim stole may not be ideal but it isn't inherently a bad plan.

I also don't see John's decision to keep Natalie away from Matteo as unjustified. Matteo might be innocent in all of this, but he is still the son of a ruthless mob boss who has shown no scruples about threatening John's family.

2) There is also the optics of Superman castigating a black man for defending himself against a superpowered white supremacist.



And yes, kudos to Superman & Lois for handling Lois's cancer situation with such nuance, grace, and frankly competence thus far.

[/QUOTE]

Fair enough, and yeah, the second point . . . the optics of that aren't so good, either.

I think it's just that the lack of empathy seems to have just made things worse. Like you get why he's so angry but it's given him tunnel vision that just continually escalated the conflict, and using a dying woman as a bargaining chip is just a bad look even if she is a bad guy.[/QUOTE]

A valid point as well.

[Agent Z]

I think it's just that the lack of empathy seems to have just made things worse. Like you get why he's so angry but it's given him tunnel vision that just continually escalated the conflict, and using a dying woman as a bargaining chip is just a bad look even if she is a bad guy.

We've seen Mannheim:

* Strap a bomb to Irons's sister as a threat.

* Put a hit out on every single member of Irons's family to be carried out if Irons's takes lethal retaliation against him.

* Try to have Irons killed mere meters away from his daughter just for showing up at a restaurant.

* Send armed thugs after Irons and Natalie.

* Resurrect a superhuman white supremacist and send him after Irons.

The "worst" Irons has done in retaliation against all of this is prevent Mannheim from seeing his wife unless he returns the items he stole (items that are dangerous to Superman). Irons is not the one escalating the conflict. "You always have a choice" applies to Mannheim as well.

Even Wole Parks thinks Clark's reaction was overblown.

They have to find a common ground with this. My prayer is that Clark understands his perspective, even if he doesn't agree with it. This episode, we basically have seen Clark come at him, Natalie come at him, Lana, General Lane, everyone's coming at him being like, "Dude, you are going off the deep end." And he's like, "Guys, what else do you want me to do? I'm trying to protect my family."

https://ew.com/tv/superman-and-lois-...ling-atom-man/

[Huntsman Spider]

We've seen Mannheim:

* Strap a bomb to Irons's sister as a threat.

* Put a hit out on every single member of Irons's family to be carried out if Irons's takes lethal retaliation against him.

* Try to have Irons killed mere meters away from his daughter just for showing up at a restaurant.

* Send armed thugs after Irons and Natalie.

* Resurrect a superhuman white supremacist and send him after Irons.

The "worst" Irons has done in retaliation against all of this is prevent Mannheim from seeing his wife unless he returns the items he stole (items that are dangerous to Superman). Irons is not the one escalating the conflict. "You always have a choice" applies to Mannheim as well.

Even Wole Parks thinks Clark's reaction was overblown.



https://ew.com/tv/superman-and-lois-...ling-atom-man/

Yeah, when you put all that together . . . John Henry Irons does not look that unreasonable for wanting Mannheim shut down any way he can make that happen. On the part where he was going to have Irons killed right in front of his own daughter, let's not forget that Mannheim's own son was there, too, and he had no hesitation about potentially scarring his kid for life by having a man effectively executed in front of him. Father of the freaking year.

[Frontier]

We've seen Mannheim:

* Strap a bomb to Irons's sister as a threat.

* Put a hit out on every single member of Irons's family to be carried out if Irons's takes lethal retaliation against him.

* Try to have Irons killed mere meters away from his daughter just for showing up at a restaurant.

* Send armed thugs after Irons and Natalie.

* Resurrect a superhuman white supremacist and send him after Irons.

The "worst" Irons has done in retaliation against all of this is prevent Mannheim from seeing his wife unless he returns the items he stole (items that are dangerous to Superman). Irons is not the one escalating the conflict. "You always have a choice" applies to Mannheim as well.

Even Wole Parks thinks Clark's reaction was overblown.



https://ew.com/tv/superman-and-lois-...ling-atom-man/

I get where they're coming from, and I know Manheim is a bad guy, but Clark reaching out to him with empathy and with the promise of seeing his wife actually got through to Manheim before they made the raid (which amounted to nothing and wasn't an accident since JHI knew Superman was going to reach out to Manehim, he just wanted to make a point that didn't go over well).

[80sbaby]

Yeah, when you put all that together . . . John Henry Irons does not look that unreasonable for wanting Mannheim shut down any way he can make that happen. On the part where he was going to have Irons killed right in front of his own daughter, let's not forget that Mannheim's own son was there, too, and he had no hesitation about potentially scarring his kid for life by having a man effectively executed in front of him. Father of the freaking year.

I like how indignant he was that Matteo would even ask if he or Peia had killed anyone before lol He was legitimately offended.

[j9ac9k]

I like how indignant he was that Matteo would even ask if he or Peia had killed anyone before lol He was legitimately offended.

I like that he also didn't answer the question and Matteo didn't notice.

[Frontier]

I like how indignant he was that Matteo would even ask if he or Peia had killed anyone before lol He was legitimately offended.

I like that he also didn't answer the question and Matteo didn't notice.

I guess part of it is just that he feels everything he and Peia did, all the people they killed, was justified for the sake of saving her and, in his mind, Hobb's Bay and he won't broker any criticism on it. Even from his own son.