Do we know when exactly Moira and Xavier had their big talk?

[pkingdom]

I got the impression that she told him to give up really early on, but its kind of hard to tell. It really changes how both characters are characterized if the talk happened recently or early on in the X-men series. I don't want to talk out my ass if I'm wrong about when that happened.

[Tycon]

It happened the first time they met, before Xavier even recruited Cyclops.

[Omega Alpha]

Happened very early, most likely when Xavier was still in college.

[Snoop Dogg]

It is now canon that Xavier came up with the premise of this series by looking at birds.

[pkingdom]

That's....disconcerting. If this was their plan, how much of what happened in the entire X series was done in service towards it? Like, did they let things like House of X just happen to deliberately demoralize the X-men and put them in a position to agree to this? Were they lying to the X-men the entire time about ever wanting coexistence? I feel like the implications of setting it then may not have been thought out well. To say nothing of Moira's mutant parasite kid and what that implies if she knew about her past lives.

[loke13]

That's....disconcerting. If this was their plan, how much of what happened in the entire X series was done in service towards it? Like, did they let things like House of X just happen to deliberately demoralize the X-men and put them in a position to agree to this? Were they lying to the X-men the entire time about ever wanting coexistence? I feel like the implications of setting it then may not have been thought out well. To say nothing of Moira's mutant parasite kid and what that implies if she knew about her past lives.

I mean the last issue of PoX literally talks about this. Basically Xavier was stubborn and ignored Moira's advice/visions because he still wanted to make "The Dream" work until the ever mounting mutant casualties finally made him course correct.

As for Proteus's birth it seems it was orchestrated by Moira (a long with possibly Legion's) to birth reality warping mutants to give them a fighting chance.

[pkingdom]

I guess I didn't read that. I swore I read that issue, but I don't recall that at all.

It still doesn't gel well with the things Moira has done prior to this retcon, but eh.

[loke13]

I guess I didn't read that. I swore I read that issue, but I don't recall that at all.

It still doesn't gel well with the things Moira has done prior to this retcon, but eh.

Yeah it probably doesn't gel with EVERY Moira appearance but I think Hickman managed to incorporate the broad strokes into it as best as he could. Long time readers are gonna probably have to suspend their disbelief a bit but I think the way Hickman breathed new life into a supporting character like Moira and thrusted her into being a central figure of X-Men lore is amazing. So I can forgive a few discrepancies.

[captain Qball]

I also think they let certain events play out (such as decimation, messiah trilogy, AvX) to ensure the creation of Hope, Tempus, and goldballs, who Xavier needed for the revival plan.

[Digifiend]

Yeah, Fabio and Eva might not have been mutants otherwise. Hope's arrival triggered a new batch of X-gene manifestations whereas before Decimation they may have not had the gene.

Also, if Decimation didn't happen in Moira's previous lives (the timeline for the Avengers would need to play out the exact same, otherwise Wanda may not create the House of M), then she may have simply failed to predict it.

[Domino_Dare-Doll]

That's....disconcerting. If this was their plan, how much of what happened in the entire X series was done in service towards it? Like, did they let things like House of X just happen to deliberately demoralize the X-men and put them in a position to agree to this? Were they lying to the X-men the entire time about ever wanting coexistence? I feel like the implications of setting it then may not have been thought out well. To say nothing of Moira's mutant parasite kid and what that implies if she knew about her past lives.

Yeah, this is my main issue with the whole Moira 're-contextualisation'; it really makes the two of them seem so sociopathic in hind-sight. Well...ok, Charles more-so, let's be honest.

[Factor]

I also think they let certain events play out (such as decimation, messiah trilogy, AvX) to ensure the creation of Hope, Tempus, and goldballs, who Xavier needed for the revival plan.

I don't think that's the case. Moira can't see the future and all those events seem unique to her current life.
I hope they don't make Moira an all-knowing character that has the foresight to manipulate future events like that. Might as well have a precog in her role then.

[WallStreeter]

I don't think that's the case. Moira can't see the future and all those events seem unique to her current life.
I hope they don't make Moira an all-knowing character that has the foresight to manipulate future events like that. Might as well have a precog in her role then.

She’s not a precog, but at least some of this stuff did happen in her prior lives, because she knew to do things like make a golem of her die and stay hidden. She knew to give a partner for herself to create a reality warping mutant, ditto one for Xavier,

[Leirus]

I guess I didn't read that. I swore I read that issue, but I don't recall that at all.

It still doesn't gel well with the things Moira has done prior to this retcon, but eh.

The thing is, Moira is not a Precog. She has to rely on the information she got in her past lives. And she was running out of lives this time. If she took a too early detour she would be going blind. So she allowed the events that happened in live three happen again, until the point she felt she could really change things.

[HeartofTheStoriesWeTell]

She only has so much control...and her main way of makeing a drastic change is to tell people the truth...she has done that twice. So i dont think they "let" anything happen as much as they took what they could and rolled with it until this moment.