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  1. #16
    Mighty Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by abulafia View Post
    don´t be ridiculous, plz.
    RoS is marketed as summing up the saga. even most haters will go and see how it will finish.

    same after the atrocious AotC, RotS had a significantly higher attendance because folks wanted to see the final chapter.

    it is a sure cash grab, despite of the movie´s quality.
    of course defenders will not stop mentioning, "oh it made a sh*tload of dollars and was the most profitable movie next to endgame, ofc it was a good movie. consumer zombie´s can´t be wrong, right?"
    The percentage of the general audience that are completionists or hate watchers are fairly small so yeah, a film making a lot of money is a pretty solid sign that a film is generally enjoyed by the audience. That's why just about every argument that The Last Jedi was a failure is silly.

  2. #17
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by abulafia View Post
    of course defenders will not stop mentioning, "oh it made a sh*tload of dollars and was the most profitable movie next to endgame, ofc it was a good movie. consumer zombie´s can´t be wrong, right?"
    There's a difference between arguing that a movie is "good" and that it was "popular." Whenever, I see people using the whole "you can't say the movie was good because it made money," they're usually responding to refutations of the film's popularity.
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  3. #18
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    I'm guessing films period are going to be on a long hiatus now, and streaming shows will be their go-to for a while.
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  4. #19
    Mighty Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    I'm guessing films period are going to be on a long hiatus now, and streaming shows will be their go-to for a while.
    I really doubt that, the films have made them a crap ton of money so I doubt they'd shelve them for very long. If we go longer than two-three years with out a new film I'd be really surprised.

  5. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperiorIronman View Post
    And how would you know of the quality already?
    To be fair I think he's trying to say just because the movie made a lot of money doesn't mean it's a good movie. I mean the transformers movies make a lot of movie and I haven't heard anything but complaints ever since the second movie was released.
    Last edited by MASTER-OF-SUPRISE; 10-30-2019 at 07:32 PM. Reason: Spelling.

  6. #21
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MASTER-OF-SUPRISE View Post
    To be fair I think he's trying to say just because the movie made a lot of movie doesn't mean it's a good movie. I mean the transformers movies make a lot of movie and I haven't heard anything but complaints ever since the second movie was released.
    Thought the last one was considered to be the best of the bunch and not just in a "it cleared a low bar" kind of way?
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  7. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    Thought the last one was considered to be the best of the bunch and not just in a "it cleared a low bar" kind of way?
    I didn't see the last knight or Bumblebee so I couldn't say. My point is that reguardless of how you may feel about the movies. There is no denying they made a lot of money. Yet Michael bay was only ever really met with ridicule. So box office money can is not a good measurement of quality.

    In fact Empire Strikes back made less money then both Return of the Jedi and A New Hope. Yet it's often held up as the best one. What's a good measure of quality? I don't know. I have a few ideas but I can't say any of them are concrete.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by MASTER-OF-SUPRISE View Post
    I didn't see the last knight or Bumblebee so I couldn't say. My point is that reguardless of how you may feel about the movies. There is no denying they made a lot of money. Yet Michael bay was only ever really met with ridicule. So box office money can is not a good measurement of quality.

    In fact Empire Strikes back made less money then both Return of the Jedi and A New Hope. Yet it's often held up as the best one. What's a good measure of quality? I don't know. I have a few ideas but I can't say any of them are concrete.
    Trusting reviews can also be faulty. Reviews can contain bias for one reason or another and while it's almost impossible to disconnect from all of it, it's worth mentioning since there are media personalities who are on quests against things like Star Wars. I don't want to name names since I feel like that could be a little unprofessional but the people on Youtube who make it a ritual to post googly eyes on characters and poorly photoshop in smiles aren't exactly the personalities who tend to be trustworthy on a products worth.

    Honestly when it comes to something being good or not you have to find a balance because there is no perfect product, and there are very, very few projects that are outright disasters.
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  9. #24
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MASTER-OF-SUPRISE View Post
    I didn't see the last knight or Bumblebee so I couldn't say. My point is that reguardless of how you may feel about the movies. There is no denying they made a lot of money. Yet Michael bay was only ever really met with ridicule. So box office money can is not a good measurement of quality.
    Excusing seeing a bit of the first one years ago (should see the rest of it and the others, if only for the sake of having a frame of reference), Bumblebee was the only one I've seen. I think it can be said to be a genuinely good franchise movie, so I say it's worth checking out. The fact that it's a reboot of the Bay continuity (albeit after the fact, even if it never really fit with the other movies in terms of backstory when it was supposed to be a prequel) might be encouraging if you weren't a fan of the other ones.

    Kinda funny fact about the box office is that The Last Knight actually made more money then Bumblebee did, but, because of the former's larger budget, it actually lost money, while Bumblebee finished in the black when all was said and done.

    Quote Originally Posted by MASTER-OF-SUPRISE View Post
    In fact Empire Strikes back made less money then both Return of the Jedi and A New Hope. Yet it's often held up as the best one. What's a good measure of quality? I don't know. I have a few ideas but I can't say any of them are concrete.
    I don't know if there's any truly concrete measure for that, given just how subjective art is (even "objective" reviews have subjectivity due to the author's experiences and tastes; I consider "objective review" to mean that the author makes the effort to look beyond their own biases grade the movie's quality irregardless of their personal preferences (e.g. "The movie was good, even if I didn't like it for this and that," or "it's 'bad,' but I like it anyways because of such and such").
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
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  10. #25
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    Cannot say that I'm sad about this. GOT season 8 was a mess, and their recent convention appearance did them no favors either.

  11. #26
    Oni of the Ash Moon Ronin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by abulafia View Post
    don´t be ridiculous, plz.
    RoS is marketed as summing up the saga. even most haters will go and see how it will finish.

    same after the atrocious AotC, RotS had a significantly higher attendance because folks wanted to see the final chapter.

    it is a sure cash grab, despite of the movie´s quality.
    of course defenders will not stop mentioning, "oh it made a sh*tload of dollars and was the most profitable movie next to endgame, ofc it was a good movie. consumer zombie´s can´t be wrong, right?"
    It really wasn't that significant when compared to the entire franchise, There was really only a 50 million dollar difference between the two domestically and Rogue One made more domestically than ROTS did even factoring in inflation and it was a single stand alone chapter.
    It is marketed to sum up the saga but not the franchise, that is a little different too, and that kind of takes out the "final chapter" allure out of it. With D&D out and Johnson saying that his trilogy "might" happen we have no clue where the movies are going after but we can make a safe bet that it is gonna keep going as Kevin Figgie has been announced to produce at lest one Star Wars move.
    I'm sure Rise of SkyWalker will make money but not as much as TFA and maybe even less than TLJ, (ROTJ made the lest of the OT ) so it ain't gonna come close to Endgame or Avatar.

    Quote Originally Posted by MASTER-OF-SUPRISE View Post
    In fact Empire Strikes back made less money then both Return of the Jedi and A New Hope. Yet it's often held up as the best one. What's a good measure of quality? I don't know. I have a few ideas but I can't say any of them are concrete.
    A New Hope (Star Wars): Total $775,398,007 ($2,784,186,297 Adjusted for inflation)
    Empire Strikes Back: Total $538,375,067 ($1,507,689,016 Adjusted for inflation)
    Return of the Jedi: Total $475,106,177 ($1,132,533,239 Adjusted for inflation)

    In truth sales went down for each movie in the original trilogy and Empire did not make less than Jedi did.
    Last edited by Moon Ronin; 10-31-2019 at 09:13 AM.
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  12. #27
    Astonishing Member superduperman's Avatar
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    As long as they only make them for WHITE MEN then there shouldn't be a problem! (sarc)

    In all seriousness, the best thing they could do movie-wise is make more stand alone anthology movies. Those seem to be the most popular. And I think people are kind of burned out on trilogies at this point. i don't blame them for not wanting to deal with yet another toxic fanbase.
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  13. #28
    Astonishing Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    Thought the last one was considered to be the best of the bunch and not just in a "it cleared a low bar" kind of way?
    I think part of the reason it was better received (although it didn't make as much money as the first four Bay films) is that, despite taking place in the continuity of the Bay series it was much closer to the cartoon's/toys designs, something that's been a major issue with most of the fans.

    It also considerably toned down the juvenile humor of the Bay films too.
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  14. #29
    Incredible Member abulafia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post
    As long as they only make them for WHITE MEN then there shouldn't be a problem! (sarc)

    In all seriousness, the best thing they could do movie-wise is make more stand alone anthology movies. Those seem to be the most popular. And I think people are kind of burned out on trilogies at this point. i don't blame them for not wanting to deal with yet another toxic fanbase.
    i doubt people are burned out on trilogies. RO was the first of its kind, so that gathered interest.
    people are burned out on lazy writing. look at what little amount of world building and character development happened in TFA and TLJ. we learned from the release of AotC that "maybe the next one will be better" most likely won´t apply.
    look at all the shit that apparently will be cramped into RoS.
    where is the foreshadowing? the momentum? the tension?
    i´d only count the flashback scenes and the mirror scene. and all of them vague as hell.

    a solid old republic trilogy would sell like hotcakes. some tales of the jedi, some OR video game mashup and your done. all your ingredients are already there.
    it also has a good female lead with the character of nomi sunrider
    I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.

  15. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperiorIronman View Post
    Trusting reviews can also be faulty. Reviews can contain bias for one reason or another and while it's almost impossible to disconnect from all of it, it's worth mentioning since there are media personalities who are on quests against things like Star Wars. I don't want to name names since I feel like that could be a little unprofessional but the people on Youtube who make it a ritual to post googly eyes on characters and poorly photoshop in smiles aren't exactly the personalities who tend to be trustworthy on a products worth.

    Honestly when it comes to something being good or not you have to find a balance because there is no perfect product, and there are very, very few projects that are outright disasters.
    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    Excusing seeing a bit of the first one years ago (should see the rest of it and the others, if only for the sake of having a frame of reference), Bumblebee was the only one I've seen. I think it can be said to be a genuinely good franchise movie, so I say it's worth checking out. The fact that it's a reboot of the Bay continuity (albeit after the fact, even if it never really fit with the other movies in terms of backstory when it was supposed to be a prequel) might be encouraging if you weren't a fan of the other ones.

    Kinda funny fact about the box office is that The Last Knight actually made more money then Bumblebee did, but, because of the former's larger budget, it actually lost money, while Bumblebee finished in the black when all was said and done.



    I don't know if there's any truly concrete measure for that, given just how subjective art is (even "objective" reviews have subjectivity due to the author's experiences and tastes; I consider "objective review" to mean that the author makes the effort to look beyond their own biases grade the movie's quality irregardless of their personal preferences (e.g. "The movie was good, even if I didn't like it for this and that," or "it's 'bad,' but I like it anyways because of such and such").
    Honestly there probably isn't a way to have concrete measure. I don't think there is a such thing as an objective opinion. I just know I soured on TLJ very quickly after a rewatch.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Ronin View Post
    It really wasn't that significant when compared to the entire franchise, There was really only a 50 million dollar difference between the two domestically and Rogue One made more domestically than ROTS did even factoring in inflation and it was a single stand alone chapter.
    It is marketed to sum up the saga but not the franchise, that is a little different too, and that kind of takes out the "final chapter" allure out of it. With D&D out and Johnson saying that his trilogy "might" happen we have no clue where the movies are going after but we can make a safe bet that it is gonna keep going as Kevin Figgie has been announced to produce at lest one Star Wars move.
    I'm sure Rise of SkyWalker will make money but not as much as TFA and maybe even less than TLJ, (ROTJ made the lest of the OT ) so it ain't gonna come close to Endgame or Avatar.



    A New Hope (Star Wars): Total $775,398,007 ($2,784,186,297 Adjusted for inflation)
    Empire Strikes Back: Total $538,375,067 ($1,507,689,016 Adjusted for inflation)
    Return of the Jedi: Total $475,106,177 ($1,132,533,239 Adjusted for inflation)

    In truth sales went down for each movie in the original trilogy and Empire did not make less than Jedi did.
    Ah okay. I guess I was wrong there. It's just that's one of the big things I keep seeing in the arguments.

    Quote Originally Posted by superduperman View Post
    As long as they only make them for WHITE MEN then there shouldn't be a problem! (sarc)

    In all seriousness, the best thing they could do movie-wise is make more stand alone anthology movies. Those seem to be the most popular. And I think people are kind of burned out on trilogies at this point. i don't blame them for not wanting to deal with yet another toxic fanbase.
    Quote Originally Posted by abulafia View Post
    i doubt people are burned out on trilogies. RO was the first of its kind, so that gathered interest.
    people are burned out on lazy writing. look at what little amount of world building and character development happened in TFA and TLJ. we learned from the release of AotC that "maybe the next one will be better" most likely won´t apply.
    look at all the shit that apparently will be cramped into RoS.
    where is the foreshadowing? the momentum? the tension?
    i´d only count the flashback scenes and the mirror scene. and all of them vague as hell.

    a solid old republic trilogy would sell like hotcakes. some tales of the jedi, some OR video game mashup and your done. all your ingredients are already there.
    it also has a good female lead with the character of nomi sunrider
    I think if people are burned out on anything it's probably the arguments. They're just exhausting. It doesn't matter what side you are on. If you have an opinion people label you.

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