MCU Villains Vs Thanos and His Army

[k von doom]

I think those Hydra insta-kill weapons are being underrated. A stray shot could take Thanos out of the game.

[The Arbiter]

I think those Hydra insta-kill weapons are being underrated. A stray shot could take Thanos out of the game.

Wha...? Really? What's the toughest thing they killed? Been a while since I've seen that movie

[The Chou Lives]

I think those Hydra insta-kill weapons are being underrated. A stray shot could take Thanos out of the game.

We we do not see how they did against a target worth noting.

Hell Thanos survives Scarlet Witch going crazy on him and held the power gem bare handed and did not die.

Both Hell s good toughness feats as well as catching a magic light saber in hand with no injury to speak of and tanking damage in general. Only things he had to worry about were the gems and Stormbringer. I mean hell Tony uploaded everything on him IW and just bled him a little.

[KJS]

I think those Hydra insta-kill weapons are being underrated. A stray shot could take Thanos out of the game.

In addition to the above responses, I'm not even sure they're "insta-kill".

Given that they were made using the Tesseract, they might just transport the target to another location on the other side of space.

We all thought Red Skull had died, but look how that turned out...

And given that Thanos has the actual Tesseract in one of these scenarios, he could just port back to the battle (or possibly just ignore/absorb the blast).

[big_adventure]

In addition to the above responses, I'm not even sure they're "insta-kill".

Given that they were made using the Tesseract, they might just transport the target to another location on the other side of space.

We all thought Red Skull had died, but look how that turned out...

And given that Thanos has the actual Tesseract in one of these scenarios, he could just port back to the battle (or possibly just ignore/absorb the blast).

Eh, I think that's overthinking it. There is no reason to think that those weapons are doing anything other then destroying their targets.

Skull didn't die thanks to being hit with a Hydra weapon. The likely-enhanced-thanks-to-better-and-derivative engineering Hydra/SHIELD weapon fired by Coulson at Loki not only didn't teleport Loki, it didn't kill him or even do permanent damage. The weapons didn't teleport Cap's shield to the other end of the universe either. And Thanos is a lot tougher than Loki.

So, there's really no reason to suppose anything other than "damage" being done by those guns, and definitely no reason to assume they can scratch the paint on Thanos.

[KJS]

The likely-enhanced-thanks-to-better-and-derivative engineering Hydra/SHIELD weapon fired by Coulson at Loki not only didn't teleport Loki, it didn't kill him or even do permanent damage.

That was made using the Destroyer, not the Tesseract.

[The Arbiter]

That was made using the Destroyer, not the Tesseract.

True, but doesn't stop his other points. They didn't port Cap's shield or anything.

[KJS]

True, but doesn't stop his other points. They didn't port Cap's shield or anything.

Like many other things that shield does, it could very easily be described as being "because it's Cap's vibranium shield", with no further logical explanation required.

When you look at the scenes in which the HYDRA weapons were used, they hit very specific points on their targets - such as the stomachs of the first three men - and yet their entire bodies (and clothing) disappeared without leaving any mess whatsoever.

It literally makes more sense to assume that's because the people are ported away. If it was purely destructive weaponry, the wounds would be localised at and around the point of impact - and, more to the point, there'd undoubtedly be one hell of a mess.

Combine the two key points...
- They're powered by the Space Stone. An item that, quite literally, has the specific main property of transporting things across space, as shown with actual on-screen evidence.
- The weapons' targets disappear completely, with no mess, despite being hit at very specific points on their bodies.

...and the sensible, logical, obvious conclusion to arrive at is that they send their targets across space. It's literally the most obvious conclusion to make by applying this board's logic of evidence - and the idea that they're "insta-kill" is actually a far more speculative and weird conclusion to arrive at.

[The Drunkard Kid]

I will point out that Scarlet Witch, Vision, and especially Captain Marvel show that one can draw power from the Mind and Space Stones to make offensive effects that have no apparent relation to their Infinity Stone's respective specialties.

That being said, I don't recall Carol's energy blasts causing whatever it hit to completely disappear.

[The Arbiter]

Like many other things that shield does, it could very easily be described as being "because it's Cap's vibranium shield", with no further logical explanation required.

When you look at the scenes in which the HYDRA weapons were used, they hit very specific points on their targets - such as the stomachs of the first three men - and yet their entire bodies (and clothing) disappeared without leaving any mess whatsoever.

It literally makes more sense to assume that's because the people are ported away. If it was purely destructive weaponry, the wounds would be localised at and around the point of impact - and, more to the point, there'd undoubtedly be one hell of a mess.

Combine the two key points...
- They're powered by the Space Stone. An item that, quite literally, has the specific main property of transporting things across space, as shown with actual on-screen evidence.
- The weapons' targets disappear completely, with no mess, despite being hit at very specific points on their bodies.

...and the sensible, logical, obvious conclusion to arrive at is that they send their targets across space. It's literally the most obvious conclusion to make by applying this board's logic of evidence - and the idea that they're "insta-kill" is actually a far more speculative and weird conclusion to arrive at.

Well yeah but...

I will point out that Scarlet Witch, Vision, and especially Captain Marvel show that one can draw power from the Mind and Space Stones to make offensive effects that have no apparent relation to their Infinity Stone's respective specialties.

That being said, I don't recall Carol's energy blasts causing whatever it hit to completely disappear.

...this is kinda a wrench in your totally "sensible, logical and obvious" conclusion. Just for starters.

Literally only Wanda's TP could be said to have a real relation to the stone she was made from, and even that is literally MORE powerful and developed then any TP feat the stone has solo. Like she literally overrides the Stones TP on the Doctor who was making Vision's body.

You are in fact the one looking at weapons derived from a very generic multi purpose power source and adding in all of these weird head canon twists and turns like "Vibranium is immune to teleportation" instead of just being too tough for the weapon to hurt. There is no narration or context or anything backing that up. You had to decide to ignore the logical, sensible and obvious conclusion that it was tougher then the damage output.

The stones are power sources with many many different uses and ways to manifest power that dont necessarily have anything to do with their prime functions.

[The Arbiter]

Also, Cap's shield didn't resist getting ported through time/space by Pym/Stark tech in Endgame. Nor did Black Panther fail to cross through Strange's portal. The stuff is clearly not immune to esoteric effects.

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

You just gotta believe, Arbysaurus !

[The Arbiter]

You just gotta believe, Arbysaurus !

It is indeed quite tempting to subscribe to the notion that "filling in the blanks with whatever I want despite contrary evidence" is an acceptable debating tool, yes. I might "win" more debates that way! :P

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

It is indeed quite tempting to subscribe to the notion that "filling in the blanks with whatever I want despite contrary evidence" is an acceptable debating tool, yes. I might "win" more debates that way! :P

Just use facktz and lawgickz. A certain "cool kids philosopher" told me that's all you need to win debates !

[The Drunkard Kid]

Nor did Black Panther fail to cross through Strange's portal.

That would have been hilarious, though.

Black Panther: "Give me the Gauntlet!"

Hawkeye: "Why are you naked!?"

Black Panther: "Apparently, one property of Vibranium is tha- look, that's not important, just give me the Gauntlet now!"