Superman 5G discussion/theory crafting thread

[Superlad93]

So, here's the thread where we can get into some 5G specific theory crafting regarding the Superman world. There's a lot of controversy surrounding this obviously, so I all I ask is that we keep the discussion productive. Like, just popping in to say "hope this whole thing fails"? Eh, probably not super productive. That isn't to say that there can't be detracting opinions or anything of the sort, no. This can also be a spot to talk about timeline stuff if anyone's down.

Seriously people, it used to be a pretty good time coming on to theory craft and discuss this stuff not too long ago.

I don't know about everyone else, and I'm sure the emotions run the spectrum, but I'm genuinely excited by the prospect of the unknown here, ya know? Like, if the rumors are true then this is a Superman not predetermined to have to go over any famous stories (not saying that I don't like that in concept on occasion mind you). We're seeing him and what he is unfold as we go. And in Clark's case, it's a genuinely new position (talking about President of Earth and no secret identity) that we're also seeing unfold.

So, yeah, have at it and play nice.

[Superlad93]

So you guys wanna see something kind of funny? Seems like in a recent interview Bendis kind of let slip the whole plan for Jon and basically no one noticed. Even funnier, it was a Legion of Superheroes interview from this very site.

https://www.cbr.com/interview-brian-...es-millennium/

"I got to tell you, I'm very proud; I actually first got to pitch this to [DC Comics Co-Publisher, Dan Didio] the first time we met each other just to see if we were going to do this. He was talking about something that he wanted and I mentioned, "I don't even know if the pieces line up with this, this, and this but if it's [Jon Kent] who gets to go, you still get your Superman book but you have Superboy teed up for a completely original journey as a hero that's different than his father's and then they have to deal with it as father and son too." That's unique and everyone got real excited about it."

You noticed he said "you still get your Superman."? Over the past few months I've become more and more sure that Jon getting aged up was always going to happen because 5G and seems to have been in the works long before Bendis, but it actually seems like Bendis was the one who sort of finessed this into a Superboy and the Legion story. I think early on before Bendis the plan was likely to have Jon age to adulthood with no in between, and Bendis said something to the tune of "can I have an extend period with teen Jon before that for the Legion?"

It also seems like he's trying to do an "Ultimate" take on the 5 Years Later version of the Legion by using Jon having to age to young adulthood. He's been calling all of the Legion members "freshmen" as a way to continue the overt college metaphor he has for the take, so 4 or 5 years latter is them and Jon "graduating". So Bendis likely has between next week (Legion issue #1) and the start of 5G to tell "freshmen" Legion/Superboy stories. For those not sold on some of the look for the Legion, this likely means new, young adult looks are on their way. So like say, Timberwolf might drop his "freshmen 15" and look a little trimmer. Stuff like that I imagine. Early on I remember Bendis very clearly stating that the looks we have seen for the Legion will be changing.

Also, just from a craft standpoint, this means that we would've effectively gotten the longest origin story for a character that I've ever seen. That's all the way from Man of Steel issue 1 to 5G Superman issue #1. It's almost like the world's longest backdoor pilot. And to my knowledge, no other 5G hero that we know of is getting that sort of lead up. Just a thought.

[manwhohaseverything]

So you guys wanna see something kind of funny? Seems like in a recent interview Bendis kind of let slip the whole plan for Jon and basically no one noticed. Even funnier, it was a Legion of Superheroes interview from this very site.

https://www.cbr.com/interview-brian-...es-millennium/

"I got to tell you, I'm very proud; I actually first got to pitch this to [DC Comics Co-Publisher, Dan Didio] the first time we met each other just to see if we were going to do this. He was talking about something that he wanted and I mentioned, "I don't even know if the pieces line up with this, this, and this but if it's [Jon Kent] who gets to go, you still get your Superman book but you have Superboy teed up for a completely original journey as a hero that's different than his father's and then they have to deal with it as father and son too." That's unique and everyone got real excited about it."

You noticed he said "you still get your Superman."? Over the past few months I've become more and more sure that Jon getting aged up was always going to happen because 5G and seems to have been in the works long before Bendis, but it actually seems like Bendis was the one who sort of finessed this into a Superboy and the Legion story. I think early on before Bendis the plan was likely to have Jon age to adulthood with no in between, and Bendis said something to the tune of "can I have an extend period with teen Jon before that for the Legion?"

It also seems like he's trying to do an "Ultimate" take on the 5 Years Later version of the Legion by using Jon having to age to young adulthood. He's been calling all of the Legion members "freshmen" as a way to continue the overt college metaphor he has for the take, so 4 or 5 years latter is them and Jon "graduating". So Bendis likely has between next week (Legion issue #1) and the start of 5G to tell "freshmen" Legion/Superboy stories. For those not sold on some of the look for the Legion, this likely means new, young adult looks are on their way. So like say, Timberwolf might drop his "freshmen 15" and look a little trimmer. Stuff like that I imagine. Early on I remember Bendis very clearly stating that the looks we have seen for the Legion will be changing.

Also, just from a craft standpoint, this means that we would've effectively gotten the longest origin story for a character that I've ever seen. That's all the way from Man of Steel issue 1 to 5G Superman issue #1. It's almost like the world's longest backdoor pilot. And to my knowledge, no other 5G hero that we know of is getting that sort of lead up. Just a thought.

This seems promising. Something i pretty much have been theorising . If this was planned before bendis came on board. Then my intuition of jon becoming a new man of tomorrow in characterisation is very much not bogus theorey. I have even compared Clark's origin and jon's 'origin' before.

[Superlad93]

This seems promising. Something i pretty much have been theorising . If this was planned before bendis came on board. Then my intuition of jon becoming a new man of tomorrow in characterisation is very much not bogus theorey. I have even compared Clark's origin and jon's 'origin' before.

To add to the comparisons (at least in a structural sense), Bendis has teed things up in such a way that 5G can hit, Jon comes back grown up, and he still wouldn't HAVE TO age up his Legion right then and there because of time travel. Similar to the Silver Age, the Legion would be set in the future, but also Jon's personal past. So theoretically a you could read about young adult Jon and teen Jon in the same line till Bendis feels like "graduating" them to what is most assuredly the Ultimate version of 5YL.

That's another way to "you still get your Superman book but you have Superboy teed up for a completely original journey as a hero that's different than his father's and then they have to deal with it as father and son too." can be interpreted, and now thinking about it, I think it's even rather likely.

[Ascended]

The use of Legion time travel also means that teen Jon can show up in the present day even after his adult self has returned too, because time travel is weird. We could end up with a DBZ Trunks situation, which could allow DC to thread the needle a little bit with the fandom. It'd be interesting if teen Jon was home between Legion visits enough to "sidekick" for his older self, and if used properly that could add an interesting new kind of fore-knowledge to Jon's arsenal; a new not-power for him to wield just as Clark's using his new not-power of politics. But I really don't think that will happen.

Past that.....I dont know enough about 5G to really be able to theory craft. Jon as Superman 2, Clark as Earth Prez, Lois.....probably still writing articles, but she might move on to books (Bendis has her writing that big mysterious secret-spilling book after all, and the L&C mini had her writing investigative novels instead of news articles) or maybe even replacing Perry as the Planet's EiC, though I feel like she'd hate being behind a desk while everyone else does the work.

Lex's future will depend on what's going down with Snyder's JL. I'd usually assume he'll return to form but that might not play for 5G. I think the stuff happening with STAR Labs might be setting that organization up for a heel turn, which would give Jon his own LexCorp while adding in the extra layers of betrayal and open the question of how heroes handle things when their biggest support group has gone evil.

Leviathan will play a role....I'm just not sure what it'll be yet. I was thinking they might end up as DC's SHIELD or President Kent's secret service/intelligence organization but recent solicits have them working with Lex and his Legion of Doom so.....not sure how that'll play out. Leviathan might just be playing the villain role to get close to Lex or they might genuinely be cooperating with him, who knows?

I expect a lot of Silver Age, cosmic ridiculousness from Jon's Superman, since Bendis has used him as a focal point for all that stuff. Lots of space politics.

If Bendis is really pushing the DBZ parallels then we could see Zod's son become Jon's Vegeta. A team up between Jon, Damian, and Lor-Zod would be a lot of fun.

I honestly don't know.

[Superlad93]

Past that.....I dont know enough about 5G to really be able to theory craft. Jon as Superman 2, Clark as Earth Prez, Lois.....probably still writing articles, but she might move on to books (Bendis has her writing that big mysterious secret-spilling book after all, and the L&C mini had her writing investigative novels instead of news articles) or maybe even replacing Perry as the Planet's EiC, though I feel like she'd hate being behind a desk while everyone else does the work.

Wonder if we could get some cool stuff out of Lois being the legit First Lady of Earth? There's also the possibility that she's gonna be the one to blow the whistle on the time being what it is. Like, it seems to be something that only a few people know about. And I think one of them is the Invisible Mafia's boss, Leone. Remember, she has the OG green car in her hideout, and its been highlighted at least twice so far.

Lex's future will depend on what's going down with Snyder's JL.

Maybe an outed Leone becomes Jon's Lex (for lack of a better term)? Similar to post-crisis Lex, her thing is that she's more clever than standard genius, has deep connections, deep pockets, and now own the DP.

Speaking of, what's that gonna be like for Clark? Leone owning a major news outlet while Clark is president of Earth and outed. That's potentially a very complicated fight right there.

Leviathan will play a role

Such a big question mark, right?! Given how much respect the have for Clark, and how they apparently think Jon is "amazing" I'm wondering if Jon might be one of the heroes who sees it Leviathan's way. I'm especially wondering that because of the clear time travel clues around Leviathan. It could form a nice ideological debate between our Supermen. BUt you're right, them on teaming up with Lex is so odd. Unless they're using Lex for their own means. I mean, they did something similar with Leone in the Leviathan Superman Special.

I expect a lot of Silver Age, cosmic ridiculousness from Jon's Superman, since Bendis has used him as a focal point for all that stuff. Lots of space politics.

He also says that he really likes giving Reis cosmic stuff to drawn, and I'm fairly sure that Reis is staying on the book long term.

I honestly don't know.

Dude, I know the idea of this isn't your jam, so it's genuinely, genuinely cool of you to pop in an give it an honest go. You're a quality guy, Ascended.

[TheRay]

The use of Legion time travel also means that teen Jon can show up in the present day even after his adult self has returned too, because time travel is weird.

It is not weird it just requires a lot of world building/exposition, and tremendous planning.

[TheRay]

So theoretically a you could read about young adult Jon and teen Jon in the same line till Bendis feels like "graduating" them to what is most assuredly the Ultimate version of 5YL.

Couldn’t you make it a past, present, and future line if you really wanted to?

[Superlad93]

I noticed that in Young Justice issue #11 we finally got the confirmation that Conner Kent is not part of this timeline. Similar to Wally and Bart, he was simply somewhere else when the revisions in time happened.

Now while it's more than possible Clark and some others may start to remember him like Tim did (but that's not a given). I feel fairly comfortable saying that it's very unlikely that Jon will 'remember' him, thus the idea of them functioning like 'brothers' right off the bat gets called into question.

For Conner this seems like it'll be starting over to a degree, and I think that's intentional on Bendis' part. There's more reason for him to feel comfortable changing his super name and such. I imagine this will also play up his 'black sheep of the family role' and kind of make him like the new Power Girl what with the "you don't belong anywhere" comment.

Now I'm wondering how Doctor Glory remembers him and how she "read up" on him, but also how she knew about the shifts in time. It feels like Bendis is building something of a conspiracy with the people who know about the shifts in time, and he's also now confirming that there's tangible evidence of past timelines. You have Glory's notes and Leone's Action Comics #1 car.

Also this seems to confirm that the new DC timeline is based on the revisions of time. So even though Clark and Bruce are technically in their 80s, they've actually just been in their 30s for decades because of revisions in time.

I'm now wondering, with there being people that know of these shifts in time and have evidence, will this make its way into public knowledge at least in the hero community? I mean, Legion Millennium issue 2 seems to confirm that by Booster Gold's time the revisions in time during the 20th and 21st centuries are public knowledge.

Interesting stuff.

[TheRay]

he still wouldn't HAVE TO age up his Legion right then and there because of time travel.

Isn't this true of every character, though? They could set a Black Lightning book in the 1910s if they wanted to, right?

[Superlad93]

They could set a Black Lightning book in the 1910s if they wanted to, right?

Not according to this timeline, no. Wonder Woman came first in the 1930s.

But they would likely be just fine for anything out of continuity.

[TheRay]

This seems promising.

Feels a bit predictable.

[manwhohaseverything]

Feels a bit predictable.

Well, yeah! It was foreshadowed in the books. Read tomasi's run and jurgens run. Bendis just decided to make jon more precrisis that's it.

[Superlad93]

I have nothing to base this off of in terms of clues, but I'd really love to see Jon as Superman deal with Solaris the Tyrant Sun in 5G. This seems like the perfect time to roll this character out. As DC One Million tells it, Solaris is the new Superman's first real test as Superman.

Since Bendis is so down with setting the main Superman book in cosmic situations, I think watching Jon keep an evil sun in check would be dope.

[TheRay]

Bendis just decided to make jon more precrisis that's it.

Exactly. That's why it would be even more interesting if they went in a different direction.