Superman 5G discussion/theory crafting thread

[Superlad93]

I don't get why a time skip is even needed.

Because an "older" Bruce is being rumored to be Luke's mentor.

But I do agree that the general sentiment of the plan is to be up front about what can and likely will happen to 5G and every other revitalization after it. But again, those actual time tables are very suspect.

Edit: I need time to reread everything, and go over the rumors, clues, and interview. But I'm thinking that I'll be posting a big counter argument to timeskip theory in the near future for the sake of being as objective as I can be.

[Last Son of Krypton]

Because an "older" Bruce is being rumored to be Luke's mentor.

But I do agree that the general sentiment of the plan is to be up front about what can and likely will happen to 5G and every other revitalization after it. But again, those actual time tables are very suspect.

Are you sure the older Bruce you mention isn't just a speculation based on DC's rough timeline? We know that Clark and Bruce aren't going to be kids during the 2nd World War as speculated. We just saw Clark's "revised" childhood in DDC.

The early BC rumor was that Bruce Wayne was believed dead and was mentoring Luke in secret. His presumed death could be related to Joker's current plan (see the ending of BM #85) and not to some storylines of a distant future (time skip).

[Superlad93]

From what I understood, that wasn't because of how they assumed the timeline worked, but rather what they heard from the similar chatter that brought them the replacement candidates.

But your Joker theory could very well be on the mark.

And just for clarification: when I say time skip, I'm not talking about anything like 10 years in the future or whatever. I'm more so foreseeing 4 to 5 years at most. I have a reasons and to back this up. I'll include them in my counter arguments against myself.

[Last Son of Krypton]

From what I understood, that wasn't because of how they assumed the timeline worked, but rather what they heard from the similar chatter that brought them the replacement candidates.

It seemed just speculation to me, it wasn't presented as an insider knowledge.

But your Joker theory could very well be on the mark.

And just for clarification: when I say time skip, I'm not talking about anything like 10 years in the future or whatever. I'm more so foreseeing 4 to 5 years at most. I have a reasons and to back this up. I'll include them in my counter arguments against myself.

5 years still age characters too much. It's unnecessary. I can see a time skip of a few months (3 or 6) just to jump into the 5G status quo starting with new #1s without spending an entire arc to show the transition from the classic hero to the replacement.

[Superlad93]

So I'm basically just gonna argue myself on this whole time skip theory thing. Please feel free to add arguments for and in opposition to it. I'm trying to be as objective as I can.

*In favor: Bendis seems to be setting up Jon and Naomi as contemporaries. On top of the fact that he's linked Naomi so heavily to Superman, he's also just outright had Clark compare how similar Jon and Naomi's situations are. Clark is presented as a mentor figure, and someone she looks up to a great deal. Wouldn't make much sense in terms of dynamic if Jon returned to say "hey, so, my dad's off being the president of the world now, so I'll just fill in as the Superman you look up to, kay?" Jon and Naomi are even given the same age on top of their remarked on similarities.

Against: So? Maybe it'll just be that odd. Maybe the idea is Jon relating to her as her senior and being there to tell her that she'll make it through like he already has and still is. Kind of providing her with a Superman that she finds more relatable because it's not The Guy.

* Similarly, Conner and Jon seem to be getting set up as contemporaries rather than a junior and a senior. And Conner may be done with the Superboy title. He's deliberately being drawn to look older and more rugged with his beard. It seems odd to draw him that way only to age up Jon (who I've noticed tends to get drawn with average height, no facial hair coming in, and very much still childlike) into young adulthood as Superman while Conner looking the way he looks is teen.

Counter: Conner's had a stubble before back in Young Justice. Also what would you name him? He just became Superboy in Titans, and he's likely to remain Superboy in the Young Justice TV show. Why would you screw with that synergy (to be fair, 5G screws with all synergy as almost a mission statement.)? Who takes the Superboy IP if not Conner or Jon (Lor-Zod???)? They're not just gonna leave it in limbo when they've got both contemporary versions in publication.

* Jon being even older than Damian than he already is seems like retreading on what Bendis just got done assuring us wouldn't be an issue.

Counter: Well, Bendis did say they're be comparisons to the movie Big. Plus, Damian may also be a legit member of the Legion, so he could stay just as long as Jon, thus coming back older too.

* "Teen" Lantern is 11 years old. Why agree to name a character, put her on a team with teen, but not make her an actual teen or even someone who's a birthday away from being a teen? Bendis came in knowing 5G was 100% in the works, so it stands to reason that if he was going to create a character named Teen Lantern, and he wanted to keep that name for as long as possible when 5G hits, then he'd deliberately create her to be younger than a teen so that she could be one --and be one for a while-- during 5G. That's just planning ahead.

Counter: This is genuinely hard to counter outside of just saying between Young Justice issue 1 and when 5G hits at least one real world year would've passed making her 12. From there it's possible for maybe like a 6 month buffer of unaccounted for time to usher in 5G, and from there she'd be 13. But--and I hate to break character-- why? Why wouldn't you just make her 13 from the start? Then she'd just be like 15 aka the 3rd most prime age for a fictional teen.

* The New Batman run will see Gotham in a state of repair on all fronts. And Tynion has said that part of the point will be the mystery of what it eventually becomes. That's fodder for a time skip. Us seeing what it eventually becomes is very unlikely to happen in real time.

Counter: Who's to say how far along they are when we get into the run? The skip forward--if there needs to be one--could just be a few months.

* With DC all but confirming 2G aka Earth-1985 will be explored, and my possibly even lead to a two Earth set up, you're left with quite a lot of freedom in terms of what you can do with Earth-0. Earth-0 could be the earth with the heroes with the gray temples but also with the young legacy characters taking over. And when they eventually want Earth-0 to be its default again, branch off Earth-5G and its older heroes and legacy heroes while resetting Earth-0 before then.

Counter: The distinction of the legacy heroes would already be enough.

* DC's been trying to do some from of impacting time skip for YEARS now in an attempt to chase the high of Legion 5 Years Later. Most famously you've had Johns' own One Year Later (a direct homage to the Legion) following Infinite Crisis, and that saw Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman step down for a while too. Doomsday Clock, as it was originally pitched to us, is also an example of a time skipped DCU, again, one year later. The New 52, the thing that DiDio basically said he wanted to retry but better with 5G, famously had the 5 Years Later time skip after Justice League's first arc. Future's End (god, remember that?) was also working on a 5 years later time skip, and the intent was that the New52 sync up with that at some point. That event also started off with the idea of the Justice League having a multiversal war and then skipping forward 5 years to see what became of them.

Counter: This doesn't necessarily mean it's the plan today.

_________

The biggest bit of evidence against a time skip is the fact that in a screen shot of the timeline it shows that a year after Jon goes to the future he comes back aged. My first thought would be to argue that 1) it was said by DiDio to not be finalized, and 2) it's not specific how aged. Counters to that would be that most of the stuff on their seems to line up, and why would they mention him being aged if it wasn't noteworthy?

This implies that basically not matter what Bendis' Legion will be young adults fairly by the time 5G hits given that Jon will age with them no matter how long or short that is. Chances are since Bendis has had multiple characters make the comparison to college, we're looking at anywhere between 2 and 4 years for our Legion's jump ahead. Basically an "Ultimate" version of 5 Years Later. At that point a time skip for the whole DCU seems very unlikely given the fact that Jon is supposed to be a young adult Superman.

However, strangely enough, laterally nothing else is written down for that same spot for any other family of characters. Even in the Superman section there's no mention of Superman revealing his identity to the world. Not even a mention of the Justice League/Doom war that I could see. Is it clever "oops, did we show you that" marketing? Is it just unfinished?

Or maybe that gets transferred over to the 5G section that that was a deliberate tease?

[Vordan]

DDC points at 2025 as the return of Superman's allies and the creation of a separate 5G Earth. The initiative will be over by then. I don't get why a time skip is even needed. 5G starts in 2021 and ends in 2025, and spin out a new earth inspired by it in 2026 (what seems to be their overall plans right now anyway).

Honestly I doubt it will even last that long but it all comes down to sales.

[Last Son of Krypton]

Was that a wink to the 5G universe I saw in all those alternate futures?

Johns: Yeah, again, every era, in my mind, has its time, and then its time ends and an Earth is formed. So even the upcoming eras will have their time and end, and then an Earth will be formed to preserve that era.

Source: https://www.cbr.com/doomsday-clock-p...e-geoff-johns/

Honestly I doubt it will even last that long but it all comes down to sales.

I give it 1,5 year before DC will start to reverting everything to normal.

[DragonPiece]

Was that a wink to the 5G universe I saw in all those alternate futures?

Johns: Yeah, again, every era, in my mind, has its time, and then its time ends and an Earth is formed. So even the upcoming eras will have their time and end, and then an Earth will be formed to preserve that era.

Source: https://www.cbr.com/doomsday-clock-p...e-geoff-johns/



I give it 1,5 year before DC will start to reverting everything to normal.

Interview makes it sound like Geoff has a idea for a doomsday clock sequel, I'd be interested in that.

[manwhohaseverything]

@superlad you are theorising naomi will have a relationship with jon. Well, people have started shipping jon with imra.
"Behold the shippingverse. Incredibly complex, yet wonderfully simple. Tragedy becomes triumph. And triumph turns tragic once more"
Let the new dawn of shipping wars begin.

[kurenai24]

* "Teen" Lantern is 11 years old. Why agree to name a character, put her on a team with teen, but not make her an actual teen or even someone who's a birthday away from being a teen? Bendis came in knowing 5G was 100% in the works, so it stands to reason that if he was going to create a character named Teen Lantern, and he wanted to keep that name for as long as possible when 5G hits, then he'd deliberately create her to be younger than a teen so that she could be one --and be one for a while-- during 5G. That's just planning ahead.

Counter: This is genuinely hard to counter outside of just saying between Young Justice issue 1 and when 5G hits at least one real world year would've passed making her 12. From there it's possible for maybe like a 6 month buffer of unaccounted for time to usher in 5G, and from there she'd be 13. But--and I hate to break character-- why? Why wouldn't you just make her 13 from the start? Then she'd just be like 15 aka the 3rd most prime age for a fictional teen.

Bendis didn't create Teen Lantern, Patrick Gleason did. I'm not sure what contribution Bendis put into Teen Lantern, whether personality, ethnicity/race or what have you but when Young Justice was first being promoted after the announcement, Patrick Gleason talked about pitching Young Justice and how he created a Teen Lantern for the team he pitched some time ago.

I also remember Bendis talking about how he wanted to do a comic with him and Patrick Gleason that was soley their own or something b/c he felt like he was stepping on or encroaching on the friendship and world that Gleason created with ______ (I'm blanking on the writer Gleason worked with on a Superman book), so Teen Lantern existing is not a 5G thing, it's an emotional thing, the character just happens to fit with the 5G initiative.

[Superlad93]

@superlad you are theorising naomi will have a relationship with jon. Well, people have started shipping jon with imra.
"Behold the shippingverse. Incredibly complex, yet wonderfully simple. Tragedy becomes triumph. And triumph turns tragic once more"
Let the new dawn of shipping wars begin.

To be honest, I agree with the likelihood of that. I'm not a shipping type of dude, but I can almost assure you that Jon's going to get into a relationship while in the Legion. It's "future college" after all. And there is a dynamic and a suggestive line or two that can be maybe be maybe read as budding attraction (too early to call though). That said, I don't think it'll last into 5G when he's a young adult.

I'm only really shipping Jon and Naomi right now because there's just literally no one else who seems to be as thematically built up to a possible relationship of some sort with him other than her right now. There eventual meeting seems to have some sort of build up to it in at the very least a thematic sense if not a direct story sense given Clark himself mentioned it in Action Comics. And Bendis is usually one to have superheroes date super heroes unless otherwise directed by the lore.

[Superlad93]

Bendis didn't create Teen Lantern, Patrick Gleason did. I'm not sure what contribution Bendis put into Teen Lantern, whether personality, ethnicity/race or what have you but when Young Justice was first being promoted after the announcement, Patrick Gleason talked about pitching Young Justice and how he created a Teen Lantern for the team he pitched.

I also remember Bendis talking about how he wanted to do a comic with him and Patrick Gleason that was Foley their own or something b/c he felt like he was stepping on or encroaching on the friendship and world that Gleason created with ______ (I'm blanking on the writer Gleason worked with on a Superman book), so Teen Lantern existing is not a 5G thing, it's an emotional thing, the character just happens to fit with the 5G initiative.

I totally remember that. You're right. But I think my point still stands. Bendis and Gleason both would have to have gone into Young Justice knowing 5G would be happening. So creating a character named Teen Lantern who is not a teen--but rather an 11 year old-- seems kind of like an odd choice unless you know they'll be a teen soon. Again, why not 13? Why not even 12 and a half (the joke being "I'm almost a teen")?

[manwhohaseverything]

Gleason and bendis on jon would be awesome.jurgens Jon was built up by tomasi and Gleason. So these two can probably do that as well. I hope it happens.

[Superlad93]

You know who I'd actually really like to see alongside Bendis and Reis on 5G Jon? Dan Mora or David Marquez. Examples here (https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c5/cc...0b03d436c4.jpg) and here (https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/up...%20004-015.jpg)

I also wouldn't at all mind Gleason coming back for a special issue or something like that.

[manwhohaseverything]

You know who I'd actually really like to see alongside Bendis and Reis on 5G Jon? Dan Mora or David Marquez. Examples here (https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c5/cc...0b03d436c4.jpg) and here (https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/up...%20004-015.jpg)

I also wouldn't at all mind Gleason coming back for a special issue or something like that.

Man! That cover reminds me of how DC has screwed up the titans generation. Why can't they just let that gen be equal in importance? Supergirl gets to have equal or more importance in TV shows and stuff. Why can't they do the same for these guys? On the flipside, i loved that beating donna gave to clark in that batman/superman story. It was cathartic.