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  1. #46
    Fantastic Member astro@work's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nelliebly View Post
    Yeah, color me confused here too about Lois’s age.

    Amy Adams is 45 years old and regularly shows up women half her age in terms of her appearance. Not to be crude but her cleavage alone is legendary. I just saw a video of her that her husband posted this morning and that woman is as gorgeous as ever.

    Obviously Adams is likely not playing Lois Lane anymore because the DCEU is done. But I’m not sure I get why Lois being 3-5 years older than she’s supposed to be now is an issue.

    Women over 40 don’t just dry up and fade away to dust, you know. Believe it or not but hot men still want to have sex with them and be married to them. Crazy, I know. LOL
    I feel like everybody is reading what I'm trying to say backwards.

    Based on the leaked 1G -> 5G timeline, Lois isn't just 3-5 years older. She's potentially 70 years old based on Clark's first appearance as Superboy in the 50's.

    I DON'T want Lois made irrelevant and eventually killed because her human biology doesn't allow her to keep up with Clark's slower-ageing biology.
    I DO want her around, and I DO want her to continue to be an active part of the mythos. That's why I was trying to come up with a scenario that DOES keep her 40-ish where she can be a vital player, not 70-ish where she will potentially be rarely seen or shunted off into rarely-seen land.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    Few thoughts I've been kicking around

    - Jon/Conner rivalry - Bendis has been hyping up Jon and Conner meeting ever since Conner came back and Jon go to his first age up. We all kind of assumed that this meant that we were getting something Rockwellian in nature. But as time has gone on, and Bendis has repeatedly said to not expect it for a while, the build up has gone past "boy, that super hug is gonna be awesome" to something more. I think we're gonna get a pretty real ideological divide between Jon and Conner, and, well, it's gonna be a less directly antagonistic version of Superman/Lex. Not in the sense that Conner is evil and Jon is good, but rather, both have different ideas on how to save the world, and Conner may be more okay with letting his Luthor side help out.
    I hope that this doesnt happen, but I am already seeing this going in this way....
    I am pretty sure that it will go in a lame way: Jon is Clarks Son he will be the powerful,good one and Conner less powerful,becoming kind of evil etc.

    I like RIVALRY, BUT more like I wrote in the other thread:
    Just let Conner,Cassie,Bart,Tim.....become older and build with Green Arrow etc. a new League.

    Oliver attacking Superman etc. at Roys Grave would be a good build-up.

    So say that they are fed up with the way the League threats them and fed up with their errors and arrogance:
    -Barry Allens timetravel creation of Flashpoint...
    -Batman with brother eye,Sanctuary,Darkseid...
    -the League giving away their old Code-Names Superboy,Kid Flash,Robin....
    -the League accepting their OWN Sons (Damian,Jon,....) as followers while rejection Conner,Tim,Cassie,Bart....
    -the League supporting Jonathan,Damian..... while Conner,Bart,Tim,Cassie as YJ only had problems with them...
    .
    .

    THIS!! would be more creative and better: CLARK,BRUCE,BARRY,DIANA.... as the responsible persons for the rivalry..

  3. #48
    AT EASE, LOO-SUH! Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I mean....a little bit, yeah.

    But that doesn't mean you're wrong, either.
    Lol one can only hope.

    I just keep coming back to all of the Jon and Naomi parallels that seems to be directly validated when Superman, in-comic, remarks on them to Naomi's faces (and to a less extent when Lois mistakes Naomi for Jon). That along with all the little parallels (like isn't it funny how both Jon and Naomi's parents are written in the comics by Bendis to be considered royalty?) makes it so I can't write it off, ya know?

    Like, I think it's fair to feel like they're being very clearly set up to be peers, and likely pretty close. So, I somewhat doubt Bendis would set that up and highlight it just to have Jon be her senor in age, and likely mentor her similar to Clark already was. So, I've got to imagine she's aging with Jon to remain his peer in age.
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  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    It's just speculation, discussion, news, and things like that. My intent, I guess, is just fun speculation and creativity.
    In that case, I think itíll probably be Superboy.

  5. #50
    Mighty Member Yoda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by astro@work View Post
    I feel like everybody is reading what I'm trying to say backwards.

    Based on the leaked 1G -> 5G timeline, Lois isn't just 3-5 years older. She's potentially 70 years old based on Clark's first appearance as Superboy in the 50's.

    I DON'T want Lois made irrelevant and eventually killed because her human biology doesn't allow her to keep up with Clark's slower-ageing biology.
    I DO want her around, and I DO want her to continue to be an active part of the mythos. That's why I was trying to come up with a scenario that DOES keep her 40-ish where she can be a vital player, not 70-ish where she will potentially be rarely seen or shunted off into rarely-seen land.
    I don't think this is the way the timeline is going to work. There are going to be adjustments (or outright de-aging/reboots) done to all the characters throughout the timeline likely coinciding with each "Crisis" type event. They referenced characters, Booster Gold I believe, that become aware of "timeline changes" or something like that within the timeline that they leaked. So I think in all likelihood the Lois & Clark we get once this shakes out are going to be the Lois and Clark (and Bruce and Diana, etc.) that are presently appearing within the DCU. Their lives (and ages/timelines) are just going to be extended due to all the events. So the Lois that appears with Superman in the 1950's or 1960's is going to be the same Lois Lane we are reading about now, but she and everyone else has had their personal histories extended by various events.

    If it was a straight timeline, Bruce Wayne would be in his 70's as well, Nightwing in his 50's, along with the rest of the current crop of superheroes. While I get your concern, I don't think that is how it is going to play out at all.

  6. #51
    Mighty Member Yoda's Avatar
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    The rumored structure of this whole 5G Superman concept really sounds like it's borrowing a bit from Invincible. Jon's going to be Mark obviously with Clark filling in the role Nolan sort of did towards the end of the book. You even had Lois's role could even sort of fit the role Mark's Mom had with her sort of splitting time between Earth and being with Nolan out is space. Stark differences between the set ups of course, but as rough concepts go it kinda seems like a similar set up.

  7. #52
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Did someone just invoke the holy name of Mark Grayson?

    Yes! Someone did! All hail the mighty (and greatly missed) Invincible!

    5G......I very much doubt they're going to roll with a single timeline where everyone showed up in the 50's or 40's or whenever and have been alive since then. That ages out basically everyone, and the few heroes who could conceivably live long lives would still be losing their supporting casts and a majority of their rogues galleries.

    From what I've heard, and I haven't followed the rumors too closely, what I expect is little more than an acknowledgement of the metaverse from Doomsday Clock. Which at worst is a empty handwave at the past with no real functionality and at best a return of the multiverse by another name.

    I figure the heroes debut in the Golden Age (or whenever G1 is supposed to start) somewhere around their usual ages (let's say 25). They have adventures, stuff happens. Years pass. Eventually, let's just say 1956 for fun, everyone is twenty years older and a Crisis hits. Time gets rebooted. It's still 1956 but now everyone is 25 again and debuting for the first time in this new timeline (with or without past memories...I'd say without, otherwise that gets weird quick, but this is DC after all). If these guys now went back in time to 1945 they're not going to find versions of themselves, because time travel and reboot stuff overwrote all of it.

    Then it all happens again in 1985 (or whenever). Once again everyone gets younger, their history resets without winding the clock back to 1956. And this continues up to whatever 5G is going to be.

    If you take a page out of Ben Kenobi's book, it's still all one timeline "from a certain point of view." But there's clear breaks between generations where reality gets reset. And in each generation, the history of previous generations is erased and everything starts over. So everybody starts a new generation at age 25 (or whatever) and gets to grow up for a couple decades.

    Someone who travels time like the Flash isn't going to see these generational shifts because they're just riding the wave of time. They're in the fourth dimension (which is time) so they're limited to what time currently looks like. But someone who can get above that fourth dimension, someone like Myx or Manhattan or the New Gods, will be able to see the layers; there's been several 1985's and 1956's. But it's still "technically" one timeline because history keeps doubling back on itself.

    Even if DC tries to make a single, uninterrupted timeline going from the Golden Age to today.....that screws up too much. I mean, we know Jon is going to be active in 5G. Let's say he's 20 years old at that point. That means Lois had him around the year 2000. If Lois originally shows up in G1, which is set in the 40's or whatever, there's no way she'd be able to have a kid in the year 2000.

    So it's either a "single" timeline that gets rebooted by Crisis Events and each generation will bookend with some kind of Crisis, or it's a wildly different timeline from anything we've ever seen where no single character is recognizable and 90% of DC's characters are long dead or retired (even Booster Gold, who showed up in 86, would be pushing retirement age by now).
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  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post

    I figure the heroes debut in the Golden Age (or whenever G1 is supposed to start) somewhere around their usual ages (let's say 25). They have adventures, stuff happens. Years pass. Eventually, let's just say 1956 for fun, everyone is twenty years older and a Crisis hits. Time gets rebooted. It's still 1956 but now everyone is 25 again and debuting for the first time in this new timeline (with or without past memories...I'd say without, otherwise that gets weird quick, but this is DC after all).
    If they don't have any past memory, what's the point of creating a generational structure?
    I mean, if it is just a series of reboots with no connection it's exactly the same situation we have had for the past 50 years.
    I'd say that even having the characters remembering their previous continuities as some sort of past lives wouldn't make much sense to me. The best scenario, as far as I am concerned, would be making the characters live a very, very long life with the members of the casts appearing at different times in it.
    If I had to decide Superman's timeline, I would make him live through the 1940s and the 1950s as Superboy in Smallville; have the Kents die of old age; making him live a long love story with Lana Lang, with Lana becoming old as time goes by (she could always come back again as a rejuvenated superpowered character - it wouldn't be the first time with her); make him travel through the world; make him meet Lois Lane in Metropolis 20 years ago for the first time. Basically, more or less the Supreme/Tom Strong approach created by Alan Moore - who, as it always happens, had understood how to do it before everyone else.
    It's all in the execution, but if they really made Superman live through many eras of history and maybe also have some adventures with their own feel (Dieselpunk robots in the 40s/50s, flying saucers in the 60s and so on) it wouldn't be bad. Quite the contrary, I would really, REALLY like it.
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  9. #54
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    What is jon's cast going to look like in 5G?(if it happens).
    Jimmy can be part of that still. I don't know if daily planet staff other than him will be part of it. I wonder why bendis built it up then. Anyways, boyzzaro,kathy,maya..etc are still around doing their own thing. They can still be used. What troupes do you think they are going to give jon? I mean, they will need some inspiration. I mean, they can't go for harold lloyd or john carter. From the looks of it they are going for the futuristic wierd man of tomorrow characterisation.

  10. #55
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    Also: there are some things most people aren't taking into account. In a couple of months, the powers that be are revealing Superman's identity to the world. This is obviously a game changer and the way they are presenting it, it is clearly thought as a long term plan. Basically, as something which will stick - like the "President of Earth" thing or whatever they want to call it.
    But this means that when the Crisis/Generational thing will happen they will need to make the "revealed secret" moment still relevant. Everything is possible, but I don't think that they are setting up this specific moment just to throw it away after a couple of months.
    So... What I think is that the latest 10, 12 years will stay the same (just to keep Jon's history relatively intact) and they will change everything which came BEFORE it.
    Since Rebirth, every single moment from Superman's past has been muddled/foggy: we don't know anything about the Kents, the arrival from Krypton etc. I may be wrong, but also Lana and Steel are MIA. If the "long life" theory of mine is true, it is entirely possible that they will add more details to make the current situation even more logical plot-wise. If Superman is 50, 70 years old, it makes even more sense for him to evolve into a new role, to reveal his identity to the world and even to pass the torch to a new generation.
    Educational town, Rolemodel city and Moralofthestory land are the places where good comics go to die.

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  11. #56
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myskin View Post
    Also: there are some things most people aren't taking into account. In a couple of months, the powers that be are revealing Superman's identity to the world. This is obviously a game changer and the way they are presenting it, it is clearly thought as a long term plan. Basically, as something which will stick - like the "President of Earth" thing or whatever they want to call it.
    But this means that when the Crisis/Generational thing will happen they will need to make the "revealed secret" moment still relevant. Everything is possible, but I don't think that they are setting up this specific moment just to throw it away after a couple of months.
    So... What I think is that the latest 10, 12 years will stay the same (just to keep Jon's history relatively intact) and they will change everything which came BEFORE it.
    Since Rebirth, every single moment from Superman's past has been muddled/foggy: we don't know anything about the Kents, the arrival from Krypton etc. I may be wrong, but also Lana and Steel are MIA. If the "long life" theory of mine is true, it is entirely possible that they will add more details to make the current situation even more logical plot-wise. If Superman is 50, 70 years old, it makes even more sense for him to evolve into a new role, to reveal his identity to the world and even to pass the torch to a new generation.
    And we still haven't see clark in the legion future. Do you think he died?'long life' theory works since, Kara has lived to that era or close to it i believe.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    And we still haven't see clark in the legion future. Do you think he died?'long life' theory works since, Kara has lived to that era or close to it i believe.
    I don't know. Maybe he is in the sun, busy becoming Golden Superman. The point is, I think I can see DC's strategy here (provided I am right and DC doesn't mess it up). Once they decide the Legion is part of Superboy's lore rather than Superman's (and honestly it has always been this way, the only difference now is that Superboy and Superman are not the same character) it makes sense that Superman is barely mentioned in it. The impression I get is that they are finally taking their time to make the relaunch meaningful - if the 5G happens in 2020 it will have been at least 2 or 3 years in the making (new editors, new series - I guess - etc). Possibly more than that, if Jon as a future Superman was already a possibility when he was introduced (and yes, it could be the case). If there is some order in the 5G universe, maybe the future and part of the present simply belong to the 5th generation, including the Legion world.
    I don't share some fans' disappointment in DC because Superman is not the first superhero or wasn't in the Legion when he was young. I can vaguely understand the Legion part, which can be always retconned whenever they want (we have already had multiple legions anyway). But honestly to me these elements, like Superman being the center of the metaverse, are just details, or sterile acknowledgements of Superman's past importance with no real connection to his role as a character. It's not that Superman is a more interesting or better character because he is at the center of the metaverse. This is just fan service, it doesn't make the character more relatable, more modern, or anything. Even if we lose some details, what's really important is what they do with Superman's history in the new world. If they make him like Jenny Sparks or a John Cumberland-like character, it would be way more interesting than any metaverse or first superhero thing.
    Educational town, Rolemodel city and Moralofthestory land are the places where good comics go to die.

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  13. #58
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myskin View Post
    If they don't have any past memory, what's the point of creating a generational structure?
    I mean, if it is just a series of reboots with no connection it's exactly the same situation we have had for the past 50 years.
    It is the same as what we've had, and no it doesn't make any sense. It's just what I can see DC doing. They can say it's all one timeline while still having different, independent settings to play with. It'd just be another case of DC trying to have its cake and eat it too.

    The only real difference here is that you could tell completely different types of stories with characters, with a smaller continuity that, in theory, would be easier to manage. They could do pulp stories with Superman in G1 since that's modeled on the Golden Age, stories about a single Superman in G2, and married Superman in G4. You could have Batman doing wild space adventures with a smile on his face in the Silver Age styled G2 without "breaking" the DKR inspired modern version, which we'd be seeing in G4 or whatever.

    And if each generation only had a handful of books then you only need to worry about the continuity of those books instead of the whole publishing line.

    I also suggest this as a possible approach for DC because they've been so big on imprints lately and this would basically be breaking their main publishing line into several imprints. There's also rumors from Bleeding Cool about the classic characters continuing their adventures in Black Label, and while I don't put any stock in rumors, if there's a seed of truth in this then it supports the idea of DC breaking their line into different imprints.

    Your idea of spreading characters and events across a longer lifespan is viable; I've actually done the same kind of thought experiment myself. And maybe that's what DC is going for, who knows? But I don't know if DC has the stones to be that daring, honestly, and I don't know if they'd want to spread their IP's out like that.
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  14. #59

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    I wouldn't mind a Kenan Kong title but that feels unlikely.

  15. #60
    AT EASE, LOO-SUH! Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    What is jon's cast going to look like in 5G?(if it happens).
    Jimmy can be part of that still. I don't know if daily planet staff other than him will be part of it. I wonder why bendis built it up then. Anyways, boyzzaro,kathy,maya..etc are still around doing their own thing. They can still be used. What troupes do you think they are going to give jon? I mean, they will need some inspiration. I mean, they can't go for harold lloyd or john carter. From the looks of it they are going for the futuristic wierd man of tomorrow characterisation.
    Well, I'd say the Daily Planet staff will remain the partial focal point of Action Comics like they are now. That book is more of a Metropolis book that happens to have a Superman in it, so that's unlikely to change. But I do think Trish Q will get more focus. Leone, as the new owner of the Planet, took her off gossip, and made her more of a legit reporter because she sees potential in her. I'd say Lois and Jimmy will both still be in the book. We may get some interaction with Perry as Jon's godfather. And I'm pretty sure Melody Moore will be back in the books. I'm thinking she'll either become full on fire chief or mayor of Metropolis (either her or Jimmy).

    As far as who Jon's non Metropolis cast will be? I'd say that Clark will likely have a strong presence. My thinking is that it'll be something similar to a healthier version of Thor and Odin. Lois will certainly be there too. Quite sure that Zod, Lor-Zod, and Ursa will be regulars. I'm also fairly confident that some members of the Legion will show up from time to time as Jon's friends from college. And I'm growing more sure that Naomi will be a regular in the books (I noticed that Trish Q's first non gossip scoop was Naomi's first public fight, and saving of Superman. I think that was all deliberate on Bendis' part).

    Oh, and I'm betting Toyman is going to be our newly reformed villain who will likely function as Jon's tech guy.


    Characterization-wise, it's too early to get a hint of it just yet, but at the very least, based off that little peek at that alternate timeline in issue 9, a young adult Jon seems to be quite casual and confident at the very least. I'd say he's likely going to be greatly influenced by his years with the Legion similar to how college usually influences us in real life, and just by the having lived in the future and gotten hints of what the galaxy is capable of, he may have some ideas on how to help. And looking back at a Den of Geek interview Bendis did about Jon, I noticed that he said that he somewhat equates the change in age to his own child growing up, and how they can have more philosophical debates now, so I'm expecting something around that with Clark and Jon. It would be especially potent with Clark in his new position and Jon in his. It would be a genuinely new dimension to how the two interact and bounce off one another.
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