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  1. #61
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    I definitely expect to see some conversations/debates between Clark and Jon about how to "do" Superman. Jon's going to have his own ideas about things that Clark might not always agree with.

    I'm hoping it's not always going to be "well dad is old school but this is what proper, modern heroism looks like!" with Jon always being validated. Far too one-sided and it'll make Clark look inept. But I'd be fine if Jon had a few ideas that work out better, but also had to admit that some of his methods aren't as good as Clark's.
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  2. #62
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    Well I'm pretty certain Val Zod is going to be heavily featured in 5g, due to Bendis and Dan Didio's statement. I'm just not sure exactly where his role is going to be placed in. I hope we see Kenan as well, I'm crossing my fingers for that.

  3. #63
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I definitely expect to see some conversations/debates between Clark and Jon about how to "do" Superman. Jon's going to have his own ideas about things that Clark might not always agree with.

    I'm hoping it's not always going to be "well dad is old school but this is what proper, modern heroism looks like!" with Jon always being validated. Far too one-sided and it'll make Clark look inept. But I'd be fine if Jon had a few ideas that work out better, but also had to admit that some of his methods aren't as good as Clark's.
    I think from the original image of jon as a teen with laser eyes and burning eyes.the plan was for clark to be disappointed by jon.jon to take up jor el's ideology somewhat. With conner being Clark's ideological successor. Then we would have had jon vs conner rivalry with clark caught in the middle.but,the image was not well received. So, they had to course correct regarding jon. Maybe they will still do that. But jon will be more pleasant guy with dangerous side when he is pissed. Jon being pissed and going supernova was a plot point.

  4. #64
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Eh, never take covers or solicits seriously.

    Sure, maybe that first image of angry Jon was supposed to foreshadow something and DC course corrected. But I'd bet good money it was just another "red eyed angry Super" image and had no relevance beyond that.

    Jon *does* have a temper though. Just like both of his parents. To that end, that early image doesn't really say anything we didn't already know either.
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  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    I think from the original image of jon as a teen with laser eyes and burning eyes.the plan was for clark to be disappointed by jon.jon to take up jor el's ideology somewhat. With conner being Clark's ideological successor. Then we would have had jon vs conner rivalry with clark caught in the middle.but,the image was not well received. So, they had to course correct regarding jon. Maybe they will still do that. But jon will be more pleasant guy with dangerous side when he is pissed. Jon being pissed and going supernova was a plot point.
    From what we've heard from his word balloon interviews, I'd say that's not accurate. That, like the Lois Lane kryptonite cover, was designed to "play the comics covers game", if you catch my drift. In the case of Jon on the cover you take a radical change such as Jon aging off screen, and you have the cover assume the worst and embellish it. The same goes for the Lois cover. She's obviously not coming at Clark with kryptonite in hand, or turning evil in general, but she did get something from Lex on a night where Lex was giving things to bad people, and that's worrisome to her (and she says as much), so you take that idea and you embellish it on the cover to attract attention and get a gasp from less seasoned fans. The Jon cover was more effective, thus got a bit more of a rise out of fans, because Jon is a relatively new character.

    But I do think there's a fair chance at an sort of "Dark Phoenix saga" for Jon, but I imagine it'll primarily be via an alternate timeline (two of which we've already seen).

    Narraretly speaking, something so direct and blunt isn't really required since Bendis has already made Ultraman the personification of all of his issues with his dad's legacy and what a bad version of it can look like. But, a half way point way be to somehow get Ultraman in there again. That could be either from one of the flashbacks of Earth-3 we know is coming in Legion, or somehow seeing Ultraman again once Jon is Superman.
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  6. #66
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    But I do think there's a fair chance at an sort of "Dark Phoenix saga" for Jon, but I imagine it'll primarily be via an alternate timeline (two of which we've already seen).
    You know, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see something along those lines. And something like that in the DCU could be pretty gods damn cool.

    Oh hey Superlad, are you still on the theory that Jon has extra powers? I remember when they were doing the flashback story and Jon had a purple....thing.....on his arm you were thinking it might be a new power. Nothing's been said or done on the topic since. Still think it's a thing?
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  7. #67
    AT EASE, LOO-SUH! Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Oh hey Superlad, are you still on the theory that Jon has extra powers? I remember when they were doing the flashback story and Jon had a purple....thing.....on his arm you were thinking it might be a new power. Nothing's been said or done on the topic since. Still think it's a thing?
    These days I've kind of pivoted to just thinking that his powers work differently than Clark, Kara, Zod's, or even Conner's, and that an outright extra power is still possible, but I've backed down pretty hard from thinking that the purple arm thing was anything. In fact, I think I agree with a theory you had thinking that it was just some device, and it was added just to show how crazy and out there Jon's space battles and adventures were getting.

    But, I think we should all keep an eye on Jon's massive appetite. It's getting quite a bit of prominence in the Superman (and Supergirl book during the crossover). I won't go down the list, but I will just say that it's rather noteworthy. And, again, not to go into too much detail, but I think Rogol Zaar (as a creature who is part if not half kryptonian) may have been created in part to function as somewhat of a preview of what Jon may be capable of given the fact that he's been the only other kryptonian who seems to be shown by Bendis to eat regularly. I can go into more detail and provide examples from the books for both characters.
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  8. #68
    AT EASE, LOO-SUH! Superlad93's Avatar
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    So Bendis seems to have pretty definitively answered the speculation on the possible daughter for Lois and Clark/sister for Jon. And it's what I've been expecting.

    https://twitter.com/BRIANMBENDIS/sta...67779157413889

    Question: "with the truth coming out next month will we get the full story of what happens to lois in space any time soon? Also did you just drop a hint in Superman that their is another super baby on the way? Possibly a girl?"

    Bendis: "There are no super babies on the way! And lois is actively writing her book. We are respecting the writing process Unlike other movies and comics where someone goes to write a book and they’re done in three days. It’s actually taking her time to write her book :-)"

    Bendis: "I see why some feel aging up jon was a dick move, I do. but aging him up and bringing in a new baby sister: THAT would be a dick move "

    That reads as a fairly clear answer to me: no super babies in 5G. I said this was what I expected because Bendis spent basically all of the flashbacks in Man of Steel stressing pretty hard and often how special and unique Jon is, and how Lois and Clark having him in the first place was no minor miracle. Then later on in Action Comics 1014, Lois cites the fact that he kids is all grown up, and doesn't need to be monitored so closely anymore as one of the reasons that she gained this 'second wind'. And with the family dynamic being stretched out in such a non traditional way with Lois working out of Chicago and employing groups of detectives, and Clark on his way to becoming president of Earth and likely spending more time in space, it always felt like a second child never felt like the vibe Bendis was laying down. Plus, yeah, as he says, it'd be a dick move.

    __________

    Also Jon and Conner will meet, but, as I speculated, it doesn't sound like it will be anytime soon.

    https://twitter.com/BRIANMBENDIS/sta...64636155678720

    I'm growing more and more sure that Conner won't meet Jon till he's Superman in 5G. And not only do I think a fairly significant line-wide timeskip will happen (thus facilitating the line-wide relaunch to #1s) but I'm also becoming more sure of Jon and Conner having an ideological divide.

    But we will be seeing Conner and Clark meet long before then in 1020.
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  9. #69
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Glad to hear there's not going to be another baby. I was afraid that's where we were headed and Bendis would "make up" for aging Jon by giving us a new little Super. I'm still not at all convinced Jon was a good idea so another kid? Yeah I feel like we dodged a bullet!

    And I think we were always going to see some friction between Jon and Conner. Conner's always been a lot edgier than Jon is yknow? I dunno if we're gonna get a big philosophical divide though. I mean, Jon's best friend is Damian; the kid with the secret prison who's got such a chip on his shoulder it's stunted his growth, and Conner's been friends with some really straight laced people like Tim (not to mention Clark). I mean, it could happen of course, and if there's a decent time jump (which seems probable) who knows what could happen between these characters, but right now it feels like Jon and Conner would, at worst, have a dynamic like Dick and Jason Todd.
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  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I dunno if we're gonna get a big philosophical divide though.
    Really? I'd say Young Justice issue 3 all but screams it at us. Conner's flashback to when he was in high school and had a run in with STAR labs that ultimately inspired him to quit school, his secret identity, and decide that he doesn't really care about following the rules. But the icing on the cake is the fact that he says the only reason he was even doing things the way he was doing was because he put so much weight on half his DNA (Clark's half). Like Jon, Conner was and has been at a crossroads with half of his DNA. But unlike Jon, Conner ultimately decides strictly going WWSD (what would Superman do) isn't for him, and neither are the rules. In Jon's case, he literally verbalizes how he's proud of himself for doing what his dad and mom would've done.

    And in terms of Conner being "edgy"? Eh, he's always kind of been all talk and flash when it came to that. Till this point, Jason Todd he was not. He had a bad boy look, but really wasn't bout that life when it came down to it because he'd ultimately want to follow in Superman's footsteps. That doesn't seem to be the case with this reintroduction of the character.
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  11. #71
    Spectacular Member Knightsilver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    So Bendis seems to have pretty definitively answered the speculation on the possible daughter for Lois and Clark/sister for Jon. And it's what I've been expecting.

    https://twitter.com/BRIANMBENDIS/sta...67779157413889

    Question: "with the truth coming out next month will we get the full story of what happens to lois in space any time soon? Also did you just drop a hint in Superman that their is another super baby on the way? Possibly a girl?"

    Bendis: "There are no super babies on the way! And lois is actively writing her book. We are respecting the writing process Unlike other movies and comics where someone goes to write a book and they’re done in three days. It’s actually taking her time to write her book :-)"

    Bendis: "I see why some feel aging up jon was a dick move, I do. but aging him up and bringing in a new baby sister: THAT would be a dick move "

    That reads as a fairly clear answer to me: no super babies in 5G. I said this was what I expected because Bendis spent basically all of the flashbacks in Man of Steel stressing pretty hard and often how special and unique Jon is, and how Lois and Clark having him in the first place was no minor miracle. Then later on in Action Comics 1014, Lois cites the fact that he kids is all grown up, and doesn't need to be monitored so closely anymore as one of the reasons that she gained this 'second wind'. And with the family dynamic being stretched out in such a non traditional way with Lois working out of Chicago and employing groups of detectives, and Clark on his way to becoming president of Earth and likely spending more time in space, it always felt like a second child never felt like the vibe Bendis was laying down. Plus, yeah, as he says, it'd be a dick move.

    __________

    Also Jon and Conner will meet, but, as I speculated, it doesn't sound like it will be anytime soon.

    https://twitter.com/BRIANMBENDIS/sta...64636155678720

    I'm growing more and more sure that Conner won't meet Jon till he's Superman in 5G. And not only do I think a fairly significant line-wide timeskip will happen (thus facilitating the line-wide relaunch to #1s) but I'm also becoming more sure of Jon and Conner having an ideological divide.

    But we will be seeing Conner and Clark meet long before then in 1020.
    It's just as well I suppose. He already ruined Jon for me...so I have no interest in him bringing in another kid.
    Last edited by Knightsilver; 11-19-2019 at 01:16 PM.

  12. #72
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    Really? I'd say Young Justice issue 3 all but screams it at us. Conner's flashback to when he was in high school and had a run in with STAR labs that ultimately inspired him to quit school, his secret identity, and decide that he doesn't really care about following the rules. But the icing on the cake is the fact that he says the only reason he was even doing things the way he was doing was because he put so much weight on half his DNA (Clark's half). Like Jon, Conner was and has been at a crossroads with half of his DNA. But unlike Jon, Conner ultimately decides strictly going WWSD (what would Superman do) isn't for him, and neither are the rules. In Jon's case, he literally verbalizes how he's proud of himself for doing what his dad and mom would've done.

    And in terms of Conner being "edgy"? Eh, he's always kind of been all talk and flash when it came to that. Till this point, Jason Todd he was not. He had a bad boy look, but really wasn't bout that life when it came down to it because he'd ultimately want to follow in Superman's footsteps. That doesn't seem to be the case with this reintroduction of the character.
    I mean.....I guess.....but what has Conner done that illustrates this new "screw the rules" attitude? And how is it any different from the 90's version?

    And I'm not saying he was like Jason, I'm saying the most I'd expect to see as far as a "Jon-Conner clash" is the same kind of interaction we get between Dick and Jason these days. They're not really rivals, they don't dislike each other....they just tease each other. Like brothers.

    Which would be a fine dynamic for Conner and Jon, don't get me wrong. But I don't see that as being a big philosophical argument either, yknow?
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  13. #73
    AT EASE, LOO-SUH! Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I mean.....I guess.....but what has Conner done that illustrates this new "screw the rules" attitude? And how is it any different from the 90's version?
    In this continuity? He breaks into STAR labs and nearly wrecks everything while telling Dr. Glory that she caught him on the one day where he doesn't really feel like following the rules (he nearly says "screw the rules" verbatim).

    Can't really speak for 90s Kon on every instance ever, but Bendis shows us the contrast between how Conner and Clark handle this by having Clark use his x-ray vision and then does a write up as Clark later, or he just kind of waits outside of their building like in issue 17. There's also the fact that he and Batman agree to leave Naomi in their care even though they don't totally trust them. There's a clear contrast being set up here in this run.

    They're not really rivals, they don't dislike each other....they just tease each other. Like brothers.
    Them finally meeting only to kind of just do what you'd expect kind of feels a little flaccid to me. It feels like that especially so after Bendis has hyped up the meeting by saying "people can't even imagine what Jon and Conner being in the same room will be like." Pretty sure just about everyone imagined two chummy brothers in one way or another, so I'm guessing Bendis has something else in mind. But it's not like I think they'll be trying to kill each other.

    If Bendis is really down to explore the other half of Conner's genes like he seems to be hinting at with Conner's remarks, then I can see something like neo Clark/Lex situation brewing, but both are good guys who just don't agree. That said, I think when the chips are down they'll be there for each other.
    Last edited by Superlad93; 11-19-2019 at 03:18 PM.
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  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    You noticed he said "you still get your Superman."?
    Yeah, making The Metropolis Kid the Superman stand in for 5G is probably not going to surprise anyone.
    I prefer what they have planned for Batman in that regard.

  15. #75
    Fantastic Member magha_regulus's Avatar
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    I'd actually like to see Supergirl take the lead if they are going to replace Superman. I'd like the stories to lean more heavily into the kryptonian aspects of the mythos.

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