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  1. #1
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Default Superman's world

    I have been thinking, does superman's world have to be like ours with same countries and such?does superman have to have an America to work?
    The idea is simple. Mangaka usually create separate fantastical worlds for their characters to have adventures with their own culture, politics, geography, physical laws, economy.. Etc. For example, one piece, naruto.. Etc. So, if you are into this idea create your own world for superman to crash land to with words or atleast the gist of it.

    If not, why do you think superman needs to hang on to the real world?i mean, smallville and Metropolis are both entirely fictional.
    Or Do you prefere a combo like harry potter or percy Jackson or bleach where there is fantastical world on the flipside of the real world?

  2. #2
    Father Son Kamehameha < Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    Metropolis, DC at large really, clicked for me once I saw it as like the worlds of manga. Metropolis only abides by our rules for frame of reference. At least as far as typical America goes. We understand what it means when a slimeball like Forrest tries to get Superman's endorsement for mayor. We know what Lex becoming president means. I was not happy at all with the B13 direction but at some point I realized that this just isn't our actual world. I also enjoy made up countries like Bhutran because of that.

    The user Vordan made a cool Met thread but I'll catch up with it after I binge the Metropolis comic series.
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  3. #3
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuwagaton View Post
    Metropolis, DC at large really, clicked for me once I saw it as like the worlds of manga. Metropolis only abides by our rules for frame of reference. At least as far as typical America goes. We understand what it means when a slimeball like Forrest tries to get Superman's endorsement for mayor. We know what Lex becoming president means. I was not happy at all with the B13 direction but at some point I realized that this just isn't our actual world. I also enjoy made up countries like Bhutran because of that.

    The user Vordan made a cool Met thread but I'll catch up with it after I binge the Metropolis comic series.
    That's fine. I get that metropolis and smallville are Clark's konoha village. I have no problems with these names.clark can still have america. But, wouldn't a purely fantastical world help superman as concept with its on rules. Take luffy(one piece protagonist) for example, he has stretching ability. How is that possible?he took a bite of gumgum devil fruit. What the hell is that? Its a made up fruit and so is luffy's abilities.
    Why does superman need a semi-realistic explanation for his powers? Because, he seems to be operating in a world like ours. So people(casuals) expect realistic answers. When they don't get it, they get turned off. This also happens with his glasses-secret id. A fantastical world essentially means. Real world rule book doesn't apply. A fantastical new rule book does. All star superman did it. But, that world was still not fleshed out enough. So, if my america has a city in the sky or made of bread or city full of fly pigs. It wouldn't matter. As long as existence of that world is fits my predefined rules.
    All i am saying, making Metropolis and smallville more fantastical can help the idea of superman to be driven home. People will be able to digest things better. For example, instead Metropolis having roads. It has water ways with boats. (idea copied from one piece for the sake of making a point)

    i am just looking for such out there ideas for superman's world.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 10-29-2019 at 11:48 AM.

  4. #4
    Fantastic Member Last Son's Avatar
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    I think part of the appeal of Superman is he's in our world, not Middle Earth or whatever. He's not that type of character that lives in a mythical land or in a galaxy far far away. He's here, in a world that we recognize, even if the city itself is fictional. And honestly, even that being overdone kinda makes things unrelatable, like in the Grand Theft Auto games where it's set in the United States, yet even the states are fictional(Liberty State, San Andreas, Alderney, North Yankton).

  5. #5
    Astonishing Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    DC has a LONG list of fictional places. Enough that some of them probably replace large sections of the real-world map.

  6. #6
    Fantastic Member Last Son's Avatar
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    Yeah I know, I just meant that they never went as far as making up states, and a lot of real cities are mentioned and shown, like New York. Metropolis and Gotham don't take the place of the major cities.

  7. #7
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    That's fine. I get that metropolis and smallville are Clark's konoha village. I have no problems with these names.clark can still have america. But, wouldn't a purely fantastical world help superman as concept with its on rules. Take luffy(one piece protagonist) for example, he has stretching ability. How is that possible?he took a bite of gumgum devil fruit. What the hell is that? Its a made up fruit and so is luffy's abilities.
    Why does superman need a semi-realistic explanation for his powers? Because, he seems to be operating in a world like ours. So people(casuals) expect realistic answers. When they don't get it, they get turned off. This also happens with his glasses-secret id. A fantastical world essentially means. Real world rule book doesn't apply. A fantastical new rule book does. All star superman did it. But, that world was still not fleshed out enough. So, if my america has a city in the sky or made of bread or city full of fly pigs. It wouldn't matter. As long as existence of that world is fits my predefined rules.
    All i am saying, making Metropolis and smallville more fantastical can help the idea of superman to be driven home. People will be able to digest things better. For example, instead Metropolis having roads. It has water ways with boats. (idea copied from one piece for the sake of making a point)

    i am just looking for such out there ideas for superman's world.
    Yeah like Kuwagaton said I actually made a thread similar to yours where I talked about what I thought Metropolis should be like. Short answer is I agree with you. Metropolis should be more fantastical, my personal preference is a mix of 70s sci-fi like Star Trek and cyberpunk.

  8. #8
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Well......honestly, I'm not really that picky.

    There's appeal in the idea of Superman in a highly grounded reality, and seeing how his morality and actions bounce off more realistic reactions. Snyder's MoS tried to do this, but I think Snyder tried too hard to make Clark a grounded, realistic person with a nuanced and varied psychology rooted in natural (real) thought. Instead, I think it'd have been more interesting to see Clark handled as usual; his binary morality and odd personality quirks and hypocrisy and sense of righteousness.....it'd have been a fun contrast, had Snyder gone in that direction.

    But I also really love it when the world Clark inhabits is as wild and fantastical as he is. I love weird, extroverted characters like All-Star's Leo Quantum, with his ridiculous rainbow jacket and his organizations "infinity sign" daily budget. That type of stuff is as out-there as Superman himself (or nearly so), and it not only makes for fun character interactions and set pieces, but it also softens Superman's own disconnect with reality. When the whole world is a little crazier and weirder and smarter than we really are, Superman makes more sense with the world's internal logic. And if I had to pick one choice between "realistic setting" and "fantastical setting" I'd probably go fantastical.

    And a fantastical setting allows for more change and evolution. One of the problems with Superman, I think, is that we're told he has this huge effect on the world but you don't see it take any kind of large shape. The DCU has to resemble the real world in most respects, so the only changes Superman can enact are small, isolated ones. A fantastical setting that's less connected to reality means Superman can actually have an impact.

    Think about it; current continuity's Clark has a more than a decade long career as Superman.....and the world hasn't really changed. That's not really inspiring. But in a fantastical setting, you could actually enact social and economic shifts and show Superman slowly changing the course of humanity.
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  9. #9
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    I just finished reading Transmetropolitan and now more than anything I realize what I want Metropolis to be like. I want it to be the City:
    D10B7F5D-BDFA-4A65-937D-CB47557AAFAC.jpg


    Run by morally bankrupt corporations, filled to the brim with freaks and other weirdos, corruption everywhere, and colorful as an acid trip. The kind of place where most “journalists” aren’t worth a damn. This is the City that needs a bloody Superman to save it!

  10. #10
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Well......honestly, I'm not really that picky.

    There's appeal in the idea of Superman in a highly grounded reality, and seeing how his morality and actions bounce off more realistic reactions. Snyder's MoS tried to do this, but I think Snyder tried too hard to make Clark a grounded, realistic person with a nuanced and varied psychology rooted in natural (real) thought. Instead, I think it'd have been more interesting to see Clark handled as usual; his binary morality and odd personality quirks and hypocrisy and sense of righteousness.....it'd have been a fun contrast, had Snyder gone in that direction.

    But I also really love it when the world Clark inhabits is as wild and fantastical as he is. I love weird, extroverted characters like All-Star's Leo Quantum, with his ridiculous rainbow jacket and his organizations "infinity sign" daily budget. That type of stuff is as out-there as Superman himself (or nearly so), and it not only makes for fun character interactions and set pieces, but it also softens Superman's own disconnect with reality. When the whole world is a little crazier and weirder and smarter than we really are, Superman makes more sense with the world's internal logic. And if I had to pick one choice between "realistic setting" and "fantastical setting" I'd probably go fantastical.

    And a fantastical setting allows for more change and evolution. One of the problems with Superman, I think, is that we're told he has this huge effect on the world but you don't see it take any kind of large shape. The DCU has to resemble the real world in most respects, so the only changes Superman can enact are small, isolated ones. A fantastical setting that's less connected to reality means Superman can actually have an impact.

    Think about it; current continuity's Clark has a more than a decade long career as Superman.....and the world hasn't really changed. That's not really inspiring. But in a fantastical setting, you could actually enact social and economic shifts and show Superman slowly changing the course of humanity.
    Those to are'nt mutual exclusive. You know. One piece can get more real than the real world with issue. It tackles everything from colonisation, slavery, sexism, racism, crime, idea of justice, corruption, genocide , religion and politics. Everything albeit in a fantastical manner. Fastical world means,Rule books will be defined by the author. That doesn't mean realism shouldn't exist. If the author sticks to that rule book. Audience will be pulled in.

    But,i get what your saying. The problem with ground superman like that. We will need to rework him entirely, in order to work. He wouldn't be able to have many of his powers including flight and senses . His secret identity will need to be replaced with something grounded as well. For me, superman started leaving realism behind to venture into the fantastic with flight.that is not necessarily a bad thing. Superman is a flight of imagination. Luffy is about romance in the classical sense. So, those two characters have a lot in common. So, being stuck in unimaginative world really hurts the character in my eyes. While, his world accentuates luffy as a character big time. luffy himself is a man of few words but the ideas of dreams and freedom are portrayed by the world. Superman who is supposed to be the man of action talks like hell about these thing. But, he lives in our world that only progresses at our speed. So it just doesn't work.

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  11. #11
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    I just finished reading Transmetropolitan and now more than anything I realize what I want Metropolis to be like. I want it to be the City:
    D10B7F5D-BDFA-4A65-937D-CB47557AAFAC.jpg


    Run by morally bankrupt corporations, filled to the brim with freaks and other weirdos, corruption everywhere, and colorful as an acid trip. The kind of place where most “journalists” aren’t worth a damn. This is the City that needs a bloody Superman to save it!
    This what i am talking about. Awesome.it has the cyber punk combined with hippy culture vibe to it.

  12. #12
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Yeah like Kuwagaton said I actually made a thread similar to yours where I talked about what I thought Metropolis should be like. Short answer is I agree with you. Metropolis should be more fantastical, my personal preference is a mix of 70s sci-fi like Star Trek and cyberpunk.
    Oh! Sorry about that then. An idea just hit when i was watch a one piece video on oad's world. so i decided to post this.didn't realise it had already been discussed.

  13. #13
    Astonishing Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Oda has made official maps. You see them in the TV show. But he probably won't do a world map until he's decided that he's ready to reveal everything. In-universe the characters don't have a full world map. So he hasn't shown one to the audience either.

  14. #14
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    While, his world accentuates luffy as a character big time. luffy himself is a man of few words but the ideas of dreams and freedom are portrayed by the world. Superman who is supposed to be the man of action talks like hell about these thing. But, he lives in our world that only progresses at our speed. So it just doesn't work.
    Yeah, that's what I mean. The stuff you were talking about earlier, the topical/social issues.....I wasn't talking about that at all. Of course you can do that sort of commentary in a fantastical setting (and countless stories do just that). You don't even need allegory; a fantastical world can still have drugs and rape and human trafficking, and it doesn't necessarily even have to look different from reality's. A fantastical setting can still be overrun with crack.

    All I was saying is that a setting that isn't bound by modern society can change in a way the standard DCU can't. A fantastical setting can evolve and show us that Superman's message is getting out, it can show changes to social norms and technology and we can see that Clark really is making a quantifiable difference. A setting that has to reflect our own world can't do that; which means Superman can't really change the world.

    The real question becomes, I guess, if Superman did exist in a setting that was allowed to feel his influence, what does that look like? If Metropolis starts out like the City from Transmetropolitan, what does it look like after Superman's been there for ten years? Or twenty?
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  15. #15
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marhawkman View Post
    Oda has made official maps. You see them in the TV show. But he probably won't do a world map until he's decided that he's ready to reveal everything. In-universe the characters don't have a full world map. So he hasn't shown one to the audience either.
    Also, if a full world map is shown the story will be over cause laftel will be on it and every mysterious islands that the world government doesn't want known or has not been able to land on.

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