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Thread: World War X

  1. #166
    Mighty Member Hybrid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hulkling View Post
    If Krakoa falls it must be by the mutants own hand, otherwise we could have AvsX again with the X-fans being bitter and resentful against the rest of the MU ( which they already are )
    Right, but it all depends on the writing. AvX wasn't a great story, pretty gimmicky actually, but something needs to escalate the conflict. They can write the scenario without rehashing the AvX, just got to do it right.

  2. #167
    Mighty Member Hybrid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crimz View Post
    I doubt Reed would have a problem with the resurrections or Krakoa's growing power. He's all about the future and things changing. Plus his son is a mutant, he wouldn't help create something with the sole purpose of impeding his child's future. I see the X-Men/Fantastic Four book ending more amicably between the teams.


    As you can see here, Reed is very much against the idea of letting mutant criminals like Sabretooth have amnesty and getting off scot free just for being mutants. The fact that they succeeded in freeing Sabretooth (to a different punishment but not publicly known), and are using mutants to commit crimes for their gain at the expense of everyone else, definitely won't sit well either. Also, yeah them withholding resurrection from everyone, and are using it on not just mutants but mutant supervillains, will create issues too once people learn of it. If it's not with Reed, it will be for others.

    Also, his son being a mutant doesn't say as much considering that he's a mutant aligned with humans. I'll have to adjust my prediction later depending on how X-Men/FF goes, but assuming he stays with the Fantastic Four... that's going to have major ramifications. Also, his daughter is human, so what about her future? What about everyone else's future? Xavier and the others are pretty direct that they're calling out everyone who isn't a mutant, regardless of their stance on them.

    Here's a fact that a lot of X-fans refuse of accept: Krakoa isn't portrayed as some unambiguously good thing. It's actually portrayed as a morally gray area, one that's creating bad things with the good. This is very much intentional, and it's interesting to see unfold, but it's not like everything is sunshine and rainbows between Krakoans and the rest of the world. There's a reason most people speculate this World War X event.
    Last edited by Hybrid; 01-20-2020 at 05:11 AM.

  3. #168
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    Seeing that there discussions About Krakoa not being so nice on the x-men board, so I do not think it so clear cut as you say. And yes that Hickmann is having a plan with Sinister Shaw and Apocalypse on the Council should be obvious.

    Seeing that we got decades of the US goverment alone working against mutants(MRA being just one example) again and again, mutants wanting to get their own state and being able to defend themselves is the only Option they have.

  4. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hybrid View Post
    Reed is very much against the idea of letting mutant criminals like Sabretooth have amnesty and getting off scot free just for being mutants. The fact that they succeeded in freeing Sabretooth (to a different punishment but not publicly known), and are using mutants to commit crimes for their gain at the expense of everyone else, definitely won't sit well either. Also, yeah them withholding resurrection from everyone, and are using it on not just mutants but mutant supervillains, will create issues too once people learn of it. If it's not with Reed, it will be for others.
    Sabretooth was stealing information about the Weapons of Mass Mutant Destruction being worked on....like the what was on the ORCHIS space station. Weapons built from the technology Richards and Stark irresponsibly create.Noooot sure how mad he could get about that. Unless Reed doesn't wanna look dumb
    Quote Originally Posted by Hybrid View Post
    Also, his son being a mutant doesn't say as much considering that he's a mutant aligned with humans. I'll have to adjust my prediction later depending on how X-Men/FF goes, but assuming he stays with the Fantastic Four... that's going to have major ramifications. Also, his daughter is human, so what about her future? What about everyone else's future? Xavier and the others are pretty direct that they're calling out everyone who isn't a mutant, regardless of their stance on them.
    What? Who are the X-Men calling out? How? Theres been Zero mention of his daughter or the prematurely ending anyone's future in the X-Book.
    Reed doesn't seem like good person let alone a good father. (Im legit curious how people are getting this vibe) He's worried about his daughters future, and what Sabretooth is doing meanwhile.....
    Hes cool with the Dude who tortured him, his wife and his son in front of his daughter run a whole country??? While the Bonfire parties and Mutants not trying die anymore is pissing people

    Get your priorities straight Stretch.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hybrid View Post
    Here's a fact that a lot of X-fans refuse of accept: Krakoa isn't portrayed as some unambiguously good thing. It's actually portrayed as a morally gray area, one that's creating bad things with the good. This is very much intentional, and it's interesting to see unfold, but it's not like everything is sunshine and rainbows between Krakoans and the rest of the world. There's a reason most people speculate this World War X event.
    Dude, Of course KraKoa isn't unambiguously good, It's def not this biiiiig Evil conspiracy lol. What would be the point of reading the book if everything was copacetic?
    Buuuuuut
    1. Don't see the 'bad things' its creating.
    2. The only "most people" Ive seen speculate this World War X is gonna be a thing are 6 or 7 people on message boards with a mad on for KraKoa to be revealed as this great evil.



    Quote Originally Posted by lowfyr View Post

    Seeing that we got decades of the US goverment alone working against mutants(MRA being just one example) again and again, mutants wanting to get their own state and being able to defend themselves is the only Option they have.
    lol Right?
    GrindrStone(D)

  5. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hybrid View Post
    Bringing this back up again because of stuff that's happened since. I've seen an idea in the X-books board, that a new Illuminati forms to look after humanity's best interests, perhaps leading up to this possible event. I can see how it works and thought more of it myself, as it seems like an easy way to go forward.

    Say that the new title spins out of the X-Men/Fantastic Four mini, where Reed learns more of Krakoa from his visit, and figures out that they're resurrecting people in preparation for mutants to become the majority and withholding it from everyone else, while building off of his distaste for giving all mutant criminals no matter how evil amnesty. He forms a new Illuminati in response. It consists of people representing brilliant minds, unique skillsets, and different positions in the world, who stand to lose in the event of a mutant takeover, so their goal is to make sure this doesn't happen. Many may not get along under normal circumstances, but they're working together with teeth-clenched teamwork to ensure Krakoa doesn't win. It could even have 12 members, mirroring the Quiet Council.

    My ideal roster would consist of:
    1. Reed Richards
    2. Doctor Doom
    3. Black Panther
    4. Iron Man
    5. Brian Braddock
    6. Amadeus Cho
    7. Namor
    8. Doctor Strange
    9. Omega Sentinel
    10. Doctor Alia Gregor (ORCHIS scientist)
    11. Doctor Devo (ORCHIS director)
    12. A Krakoan double agent (perhaps Mr. Sinister?)

    Then the Illuminati and Krakoa begin to wage a secret, clandestine war against each other involving information warfare, subterfuge, manipulation, and crippling resources, that escalates into not so secret all-out war leading to the big World War X event.

    It's an idea that's been suggested, but I can easily see it happening as a means to getting to the big event Hickman is leading up to, and it feels like the natural way to do it. What do you think?
    Considering the current political climate, I don't think a group of unelected men, most of whom are billionaires and have never known want a day in their life (and even though some of them have lost their fortunes, they always, without fail, easily make them back), making decisions for everybody and running things behind the scenes would be an easy sell, they would be killing the reputations of those characters. Marvel got away with it in the early 2000's because you had the Ultimates line, which made the Illuminati look like fluffy bunnies by comparison, and because Amazon and Walmart weren't the behemoths they are now, putting everybody out of business while their employees are so underpaid some of them need government assistance just to eat. And of course, they got away with it because it was pre-Trump.

    Moreover, after Time Runs Out, were the Illuminati to form again, it would look really bad for those characters considering all that happened there.

    Nowadays it would be really, really hard to write such a group as intriguing instead of narcissistic and out-of-touch. That's a very, very fine line a writer would have to walk.

  6. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by capandkirby View Post
    Considering the current political climate, I don't think a group of unelected men, most of whom are billionaires and have never known want a day in their life (and even though some of them have lost their fortunes, they always, without fail, easily make them back), making decisions for everybody and running things behind the scenes would be an easy sell, they would be killing the reputations of those characters. Marvel got away with it in the early 2000's because you had the Ultimates line, which made the Illuminati look like fluffy bunnies by comparison, and because Amazon and Walmart weren't the behemoths they are now, putting everybody out of business while their employees are so underpaid some of them need government assistance just to eat. And of course, they got away with it because it was pre-Trump.

    Moreover, after Time Runs Out, were the Illuminati to form again, it would look really bad for those characters considering all that happened there.

    Nowadays it would be really, really hard to write such a group as intriguing instead of narcissistic and out-of-touch. That's a very, very fine line a writer would have to walk.
    That's a good point. Bringing back the Illuminati, especially to have them set against a long-persecuted and marginalized in-universe minority group that has finally had enough of it and is collectively fighting back, would be a very bad look these days.

    Also, having the likes of Reed Richards and Iron Man hooked up with ORCHIS would just give more ammunition to some X-Fans who think the rest of the MU, even members of the superhero community, is out to undermine and destroy the X-Men/mutants. Not helping that perception is how the nonmutant heroes have been generally far too reluctant to openly or explicitly address or push back against anti-mutant bigotry and violence by the society they protect and the government(s) with which they often cooperate, so it's very easy for some people to get the impression that they don't care what happens to their erstwhile mutant allies and comrades. After all, as was said by Martin Luther King, Jr., "There comes a time, when silence . . . is betrayal," and indeed, when you remain silent in the face of injustice and oppression, you have already chosen a side, the side of the oppressor and the unjust, even if only by default.

    On that note, Xavier's speech in the last of House of X or Powers of X was indeed also an indictment of fair-weather "friends" like the Avengers and Fantastic Four, who stood by and said and did nothing as mutants were being hunted and driven to extinction again and again. For Iron Man and Reed to then cooperate or collude with the likes of ORCHIS would just be a confirmation of the X-Men's/X-Fans' darkest fears regarding everyone not a mutant. Who would seriously want that? It would be a permanent polarization of the Marvel fandom the likes of which even the Civil Wars and their aftermaths couldn't achieve, and we would all --- fans and pros alike --- be poorer for that, in my view.
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  7. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    That's a good point. Bringing back the Illuminati, especially to have them set against a long-persecuted and marginalized in-universe minority group that has finally had enough of it and is collectively fighting back, would be a very bad look these days.

    Also, having the likes of Reed Richards and Iron Man hooked up with ORCHIS would just give more ammunition to some X-Fans who think the rest of the MU, even members of the superhero community, is out to undermine and destroy the X-Men/mutants. Not helping that perception is how the nonmutant heroes have been generally far too reluctant to openly or explicitly address or push back against anti-mutant bigotry and violence by the society they protect and the government(s) with which they often cooperate, so it's very easy for some people to get the impression that they don't care what happens to their erstwhile mutant allies and comrades. After all, as was said by Martin Luther King, Jr., "There comes a time, when silence . . . is betrayal," and indeed, when you remain silent in the face of injustice and oppression, you have already chosen a side, the side of the oppressor and the unjust, even if only by default.

    On that note, Xavier's speech in the last of House of X or Powers of X was indeed also an indictment of fair-weather "friends" like the Avengers and Fantastic Four, who stood by and said and did nothing as mutants were being hunted and driven to extinction again and again. For Iron Man and Reed to then cooperate or collude with the likes of ORCHIS would just be a confirmation of the X-Men's/X-Fans' darkest fears regarding everyone not a mutant. Who would seriously want that? It would be a permanent polarization of the Marvel fandom the likes of which even the Civil Wars and their aftermaths couldn't achieve, and we would all --- fans and pros alike --- be poorer for that, in my view.
    To be clear if Iron man wanted the mutants dead they would be dead. Iron man has used nanotech armor in the past that would make Nimroid look like vintage. And richards literally could overwrite anything in the universe when he recreated it in Secret wars.

    And the fact that Orchis had to use technology taken by Damage control instead of aking the real deal to Stark and Richards i think is prove enough that they arent anti mutant. Can you imagine Tony giving them Iron man level technology and developing them another dimension with the help of Reed? Krakoa wouldnt have seen coming.
    Last edited by hulkling; 01-20-2020 at 06:27 PM.

  8. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by hulkling View Post
    To be fear if Iron man wanted the mutants dead they would be dead. Iron man has used nanotech armor in the past that would make Nimroid lool like vintage. And richards literally could overwrite anything in the universe when he recreated it in Secret wars.

    And the fact that Orchis had to use technology taken by Damage control instead of aking the real deal to Stark and Richards i think is prove enough that they arent anti mutant. Can you imagine Tony giving them Iron man level technology and developing them another dimension with the help of Reed? Krakoa wouldnt have seen coming.
    Point, though the absence of overt malice toward mutants on the other heroes' parts is cold comfort in the face of their (editorially mandated, I understand) inability or unwillingness to engage (more often, in light of the Avengers Unity Squad) with humanity on behalf of their erstwhile mutant allies and comrades.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  9. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowfyr View Post
    Seeing that there discussions About Krakoa not being so nice on the x-men board, so I do not think it so clear cut as you say. And yes that Hickmann is having a plan with Sinister Shaw and Apocalypse on the Council should be obvious.

    Seeing that we got decades of the US goverment alone working against mutants(MRA being just one example) again and again, mutants wanting to get their own state and being able to defend themselves is the only Option they have.
    I think there are lots of people on the X-Boards who think Krakoa isn't exactly a good idea, but they get sort of drowned out by the people who think it's great.

    For me, I just don't really believe in isolationism and I believe that part of the point of Krakoa is that the mutants are just perpetuating the standard world order, where one bunch of people are in control and everyone else just suffers under them. The attitude most of the X-Men now have towards humanity is condescending smugness, which just seems so out of character. Are these not people who fought and died so that they could call themselves human beings? And now it's a dirty word? Plus, as we see in the solicitation for an upcoming Deadpool issue, what about all the other marginalized groups in the MU? What about the monsters and the remaining Inhumans? Is it right that they are kept out of Krakoa even though the human world isn't too kind to them?

    Now, I am loving what Hickman and company are doing, even if it creeps me out and makes me feel uncomfortable. It's what needed to be done.

  10. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebunse View Post
    I think there are lots of people on the X-Boards who think Krakoa isn't exactly a good idea, but they get sort of drowned out by the people who think it's great.

    For me, I just don't really believe in isolationism and I believe that part of the point of Krakoa is that the mutants are just perpetuating the standard world order, where one bunch of people are in control and everyone else just suffers under them. The attitude most of the X-Men now have towards humanity is condescending smugness, which just seems so out of character. Are these not people who fought and died so that they could call themselves human beings? And now it's a dirty word? Plus, as we see in the solicitation for an upcoming Deadpool issue, what about all the other marginalized groups in the MU? What about the monsters and the remaining Inhumans? Is it right that they are kept out of Krakoa even though the human world isn't too kind to them?

    Now, I am loving what Hickman and company are doing, even if it creeps me out and makes me feel uncomfortable. It's what needed to be done.
    Agreed on the last part, especially given that from their perspective, all their fighting to be seen, acknowledged, respected, and accepted as fellow human beings did nothing to stop those same human beings they once wished to be accepted by from continuing to hate them and actively seek or passively tolerate their destruction. It's creepy and discomforting, yes, but it's also a wakeup call to humanity and its superhuman champions and defenders that mutants won't tolerate the dehumanization, exploitation, and oppression they've experienced for years at human hands any longer. It was a long time coming, and it did need to be done.
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  11. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    Agreed on the last part, especially given that from their perspective, all their fighting to be seen, acknowledged, respected, and accepted as fellow human beings did nothing to stop those same human beings they once wished to be accepted by from continuing to hate them and actively seek or passively tolerate their destruction. It's creepy and discomforting, yes, but it's also a wakeup call to humanity and its superhuman champions and defenders that mutants won't tolerate the dehumanization, exploitation, and oppression they've experienced for years at human hands any longer. It was a long time coming, and it did need to be done.
    The thing is, what exactly do the other superheros do? A lot of mutant hate was dealt with by the other superheros, but there's not a ton they could do for the casual racism or anti-mutant rallies and even legislation.

  12. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebunse View Post
    The thing is, what exactly do the other superheros do? A lot of mutant hate was dealt with by the other superheros, but there's not a ton they could do for the casual racism or anti-mutant rallies and even legislation.
    They could at least speak out against it. Leverage their comparatively more positive reception with the public to openly challenge anti-mutant bigotry whenever and wherever possible. Of course, I blame the lack of that more on Marvel editorial basically determining, "X-Men problems must be solved by X-Men," which pretty much made something like the Avengers Unity Squad a toothless exercise.
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  13. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    They could at least speak out against it. Leverage their comparatively more positive reception with the public to openly challenge anti-mutant bigotry whenever and wherever possible. Of course, I blame the lack of that more on Marvel editorial basically determining, "X-Men problems must be solved by X-Men," which pretty much made something like the Avengers Unity Squad a toothless exercise.
    I feel like for the X-Men to work going forward, we need more cohesion among the different Marvel sections. And to be fair, I do think the current crop of writers are trying to tie their books together.

  14. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    They could at least speak out against it. Leverage their comparatively more positive reception with the public to openly challenge anti-mutant bigotry whenever and wherever possible. Of course, I blame the lack of that more on Marvel editorial basically determining, "X-Men problems must be solved by X-Men," which pretty much made something like the Avengers Unity Squad a toothless exercise.
    they have spoken in the past. in the 90s the avengers were againts the use of Sentinels in war zones, Sue and Reed adopted some Morlocks in their Family. Its not like the mutant oppresion is an open legal thing, until rosemberg run they didnt have direct laws against them, just shadow agencies . And the rosemberg run wasnt also bad per se if you see the context, the world suffered a 11-S like attack by the hands of a mutant and the goverment had a way to eliminate the threat without killing millions. The mutant kind digged their own grave in that sense after AvsX, after all this time preaching tolerance the moment they have the upper hand they proclame themselves supreme rulers of the world them something doesnt work.

  15. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by hulkling View Post
    they have spoken in the past. in the 90s the avengers were againts the use of Sentinels in war zones, Sue and Reed adopted some Morlocks in their Family. Its not like the mutant oppresion is an open legal thing, until rosemberg run they didnt have direct laws against them, just shadow agencies . And the rosemberg run wasnt also bad per se if you see the context, the world suffered a 11-S like attack by the hands of a mutant and the goverment had a way to eliminate the threat without killing millions. The mutant kind digged their own grave in that sense after AvsX, after all this time preaching tolerance the moment they have the upper hand they proclame themselves supreme rulers of the world them something doesnt work.
    I feel like people forget that last part, especially since, well, the mutants are pretty damn scary now.

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