World War X

[hulkling]

Way to inject some humor into this situation, Snoop. I also like your signature. It's very on-point. On topic, though, it is harrowing to see mutants treating everyone not them as the enemy, but at the same time, this is the lesson they've learned from humanity at large. As far as humans are concerned, mutants are and have always been an existential threat, and now mutants are ready to be that existential threat after years of being treated as such. On the subject of the Avengers, well, they've always been champions of humanity as a whole, even though they're not affiliated with any one human government these days or in a long time, so even if they have disagreements with those governments, they'll still protect humans in general first. That's what motivates the animosity toward them from Krakoa, since the same humans protected by the Avengers have felt near-total impunity in persecuting and trying to wipe mutants out all these years, so from the mutants' viewpoint, the Avengers are, in their own way, just as guilty. Not entirely right, but still.

I love the trope of lets blame the Avengers of all problems of the world. When most mutants are as passive as the avengers , no one blames Abagail Brand for example for avoid help mutants in the last uncanny run , using her resources as leader of Alpha fight but the avengers are blame for all the problems of a minority that is less than the 1% of the world population.
No one blames Namor for avoid helping mutants when he had an entire realm that could be full of mutant refugees, but the avengers blame.

[Rosebunse]

I love the trope of lets blame the Avengers of all problems of the world. When most mutants are as passive as the avengers , no one blames Abagail Brand for example for avoid help mutants in the last uncanny run , using her resources as leader of Alpha fight but the avengers are blame for all the problems of a minority that is less than the 1% of the world population.
No one blames Namor for avoid helping mutants when he had an entire realm that could be full of mutant refugees, but the avengers blame.

Even the X-Men. How often were the Morlocks ignored and left alone to deal with being massacred?

And the Avengers were good enough for Logan and Sunspot and Beast and Cannonball to join. So why aren't they now? Why are they suddenly the enemies?

[king of hybrids]

Because when the X-Men really needed help, or even (dare I say) avenging, the Avengers were guarding purifier rallies.

The Avengers let Wanda and Pietro back into their ranks after the literal mountain of mutant bodies they created.

If I was a past my breaking point Mutantdom, I wouldn’t trust the Avengers. But then again I’d have already loosed Magik to hunt Wanda down by now.

[Skullkid]

People really love to bring up that time in Rosenberg's Uncanny series, when they were clearly only there just to keep riots from breaking out.
And people really talk about the Avengers letting Wanda(who has been proven in-universe to not be responsible for what happened) and Pietro on their teams when the X-Men have Magneto, and are currently shaking up with almost every villain they even had?
The X-Men and their fandom are very hypocritical from what I'm seeing.

[hulkling]

Because when the X-Men really needed help, or even (dare I say) avenging, the Avengers were guarding purifier rallies.

The Avengers let Wanda and Pietro back into their ranks after the literal mountain of mutant bodies they created.

If I was a past my breaking point Mutantdom, I wouldn’t trust the Avengers. But then again I’d have already loosed Magik to hunt Wanda down by now.

first :Captain america saved Scott in Uncanny, there was no way he was going out alive from there .
second: How many mutants really killed wanda , because I can think in two or three mutants who died as a direct result of her spell. Most of them were killed by other mutant or human forces. Doom himself said that he put that suggestion in Wanda mind and Pietro said that it was a skrull who committed his crime. the case of the X-men accepting Angel even if he bombed a small town and killed 300 humans when he was heir of Apocalypse
Third: the little demon can touch Wanda even in her best day. And without Wanda Magik could have never transported the School to limbo and create X-haven during the M-pox crisis

[capandkirby]

I think what some X-Men fans seem to be missing is that it does not matter what the X-Men may personally feel about the Avengers. They can hate them all day long (their loss, the Avengers are delightful, especially this current team). They do not get to violate the Avengers inalienable human right to privacy. I do not get to go into someone I hates house and bug them, I do not get to do that. No one gets to do that.

The minute, THE SECOND, your actions impedes someone else's rights, you're on the wrong side of things.

As I said before, the X-Men's right to security does NOT supersede the Avengers rights to privacy.

And before someone chimes in with "yes, we realize that the fourth amendment to the bill of rights exists (the amendment that specifically defines illegal search and seizure) but the X-Men have diplomatic immunity" doesn't matter. Because recording the Avengers without their consent is morally and ethically wrong as well as illegal.

[capandkirby]

let beast live, he just wants some avengers asmr, steve's tired pants after training hnnnnnnnng

He's too late for the skinny dipping hot tub festivities that happened a few issues back, unfortunately (for him). Too bad. Thor, Tony and Steve all in their birthday suits, three hunks for the price of one, he could have sold tickets. Or at least have something to keep him warm for those cold Krakoan nights.



Wow, just look at the Avengers just sitting there plotting to overthrow Krakoa by trying to clean up following War of the Realms by ridding the Earth of Dark Elves, shame Beast is missing this *she says dryly*.

[king of hybrids]

Well, setting aside the morality of it (and I entirely see where both sides lie), but Beast has always had a habit of not being nearly as clever as he thinks he is, and against T’Challa or either Stark brother I don’t see his devices escaping scrutiny for long

[BroHomo]

the X-Men have Magneto, and are currently shaking up with almost every villain they even had?
The X-Men and their fandom are very hypocritical from what I'm seeing.

speaking of hypocritical....


They started AvX over the Phoenix yet....

first :Captain america saved Scott in Uncanny, there was no way he was going out alive from there .
second: How many mutants really killed wanda , because I can think in two or three mutants who died as a direct result of her spell. Most of them were killed by other mutant or human forces. Doom himself said that he put that suggestion in Wanda mind and Pietro said that it was a skrull who committed his crime.

Errrrr SB's spell pretty much wiped out the Neo, killed every Mutant who needed their powers to live, or were using their powers in dangerous environments It effected the whole damn multiverse.Soooooooooo

And before someone chimes in with "yes, we realize that the fourth amendment to the bill of rights exists (the amendment that specifically defines illegal search and seizure) but the X-Men have diplomatic immunity" doesn't matter. Because recording the Avengers without their consent is morally and ethically wrong as well as illegal.

Yeah....we got it.

[capandkirby]

speaking of hypocritical....


They started AvX over the Phoenix yet....

Errrrr SB's spell pretty much wiped out the Neo, killed every Mutant who needed their powers to live, or were using their powers in dangerous environments It effected the whole damn multiverse.Soooooooooo

Yeah....we got it.

Considering that the X-Men are trying to rip Franklin out of the arms of his parents while spouting supremacist rhetoric, no X-Men fans has ANY right to talk hypocritical at this present point in time.

And what, you'd advocate killing a newborn baby?

And again, it DOESN'T MATTER what the X-Men or their disturbingly bias fanbase think of the Avengers (I say disturbing because no parasocial relationship to a fictional character(s) should come before a basic understanding of right and wrong), inalienable rights are inalienable rights. No one gets to pick and choose who gets rights and who doesn't, they apply to everybody. The right to privacy is an inalienable right. You violate it, you're wrong. It's that simple.

[XPac]

speaking of hypocritical....


They started AvX over the Phoenix yet....

Errrrr SB's spell pretty much wiped out the Neo, killed every Mutant who needed their powers to live, or were using their powers in dangerous environments It effected the whole damn multiverse.Soooooooooo

Yeah....we got it.

The Avengers are doing the same thing here as they did in AvX.

In AvX they took care of Hope and properly trained her so she wouldn't be a threat, and I presume they will attempt to do the same thing here. It's less hypocritical so much as it's them retelling the same story.

[BroHomo]

The Avengers are doing the same thing here as they did in AvX.

In AvX they took care of Hope and properly trained her so she wouldn't be a threat, and I presume they will attempt to do the same thing here. It's less hypocritical so much as it's them retelling the same story.

How can you train a baby to control a cosmic Force??
Hmmmm they didn't trust the X-Men to deal with the Phoenix.... tried to stop it in space then tried to stop it thus creating the P5 ....here they're inviting an eeriely similar force to chill on. Earth

[capandkirby]

How can you train a baby to control a cosmic Force??
Hmmmm they didn't trust the X-Men to deal with the Phoenix.... tried to stop it in space then tried to stop it thus creating the P5 ....here they're inviting an eeriely similar force to chill on. Earth

False equivalence. The Avengers had no plans to kill Hope in AvX, which is precisely the fate the Star-baby would have met had the Avengers not saved her, as in Gladiator, Terrax, et al, were planning to KILL the baby. The Avengers interceding was literally a matter of life and death. But all this talk about the newest Star Brand still inconsequential to the main argument that the X-Men are wrong to wire-tap the Avengers. I mean, create strawman arguments all you want, heck, go through the entire slew of logical fallacies for all I care, doesn't deter from the main point that the X-Men/Beast are wrong to record the Avengers without their consent and that remains true no matter how you feel towards that adorable little baby, AvX, or the rest of the Marvel Universe outside the X-Men as a whole. You keep trying to justify the inexcusable. It's not going to work.

[king of hybrids]

I would point out that while the Avengers had no plans whatsoever to harm Hope; they were being directed into that morass by two people who would be very willing to hurt her, as much out of a desire to spite Scott as a fear of another Dark Phoenix

[Zero Hunter]

I think what some X-Men fans seem to be missing is that it does not matter what the X-Men may personally feel about the Avengers. They can hate them all day long (their loss, the Avengers are delightful, especially this current team). They do not get to violate the Avengers inalienable human right to privacy. I do not get to go into someone I hates house and bug them, I do not get to do that. No one gets to do that.

The minute, THE SECOND, your actions impedes someone else's rights, you're on the wrong side of things.

As I said before, the X-Men's right to security does NOT supersede the Avengers rights to privacy.

And before someone chimes in with "yes, we realize that the fourth amendment to the bill of rights exists (the amendment that specifically defines illegal search and seizure) but the X-Men have diplomatic immunity" doesn't matter. Because recording the Avengers without their consent is morally and ethically wrong as well as illegal.

That is because some x-fans have bought in totally to this current mindset that ALL humans are evil and are just waiting for their chance to kill every mutie scum they see. To them every non mutant int he marvel u are just evil bigots. Even mutant characters that are just flat out evil are excused because "well we only did what what did because of those evil vile humans".