World War X

[BroHomo]

Step 2: He talked his followers into moving to a foreign country, onto property he had purchased in Guyana, isolating them away from their families and friends. He called this settlement Jonestown.

Step 3 became giving them a common enemy and brainwashing them, partly via public rituals and also through 'classes', to become soldiers, he had his followers believing themselves to be revolutionists in a new world order.
...if this is indeed what Charles Xavier and his band of merry men are doing, then I will continue to hope that the Avengers have absolutely nothing to do with it. Because it sounds like a powder keg just waiting to go off.

Jonestown did not meet a fun end. Ever hear the phrase 'don't drink the kool-aid'? All common phrases have an origin, something they are based off of and in Jonestown 918 people lost their life by drinking the kool-aid. Jim Jones talked them into dying, into killing themselves and their children. He made it seem like death was preferable to life out in the regular world.

Step 2: most of these Mutants don't have families
Step 3: they do have common enemy... RACIST humans
If they drank the Kool Aid they'll get resurrected.... looking Koooool

[capandkirby]

Step 2: most of these Mutants don't have families
Step 3: they do have common enemy... RACIST humans
If they drank the Kool Aid they'll get resurrected.... looking Koooool

Absolutely none of what you just said negates the fact that the X-Men are acting like a cult and the Jonestown cult in particular. The similarities are there and they are, pun intended, uncanny.

Does racism exist? Yes, sadly. The way to combat it is not through isolationism but rather education. So you bringing it up at all in this debate is a straw man. BTW racism existed for the Jonestown cult members, too, 70% of their membership was minorities. That’s how Jim Jones got to them, by promising them a place without bigotry, only to actually lead them all to hell.

Franklin Richards has a family.

Have the X-Men cheated death? Sure. For now. Although that’s rather meaningless considering every character in the Marvel Universe has come back from the dead, some multiple times. I mean when you have Franklin, Kobik, and Beyonders, death sort of becomes meaningless as a general rule of thumb. Even the two once fabled to never return from the dead, Bucky Barnes and Uncle Ben, have done so from time to time.

And, again, none of this negates the fact that the current X-Men arc bares striking similarities to the Jonestown cult. Put your head in the sand all you want, ignore history, just keep in mind that those who do not learn from history are Doomed (pun intended here as well) to repeat it.

[Rosebunse]

Step 2: most of these Mutants don't have families
Step 3: they do have common enemy... RACIST humans
If they drank the Kool Aid they'll get resurrected.... looking Koooool

We don't really know how the resurrection works yet. In fact, many of us are wondering if it actually works and this isn't just some cool copy and pasting of memories with no souls involved at all.

We do have Mistress Death on death's door, sure, but we also don't have other mystic minded individuals noticing a ton of souls going back and forth. And the X-Men are acting different.

One thing about Jonestown that many forget is that Jones himself was a racist. He hated black men. This is why the upper echelons of the organization were mostly white. He just used helping black people as a way to get more followers and attract white patrons who might look past the more insane stuff if they thought they could be of help to their fellow man. The Peoples' Temple was very unique for its interrace congregation, which attracted many people who couldn't find anything like it elsewhere.

As time wore on, Jones conducted ritual beatings of his followers. If someone did something he didn't like or if he was just high AF, someone would be beaten and then they would be expected to be appreciative of the beating.

The fact is, Charles knows that many mutants have nowhere to go. He knows that they don't have families and if they step outside of those gates for even a eecond, they will be murdered.

And do they really even just stop at vilifying humans? No, because they need a specific person to hate: they need Satan. So they turn to hating Wanda because it's easier.

[Ichijinijisanji]

Are you actively reading the current Avengers run? If no, then your input into the current storyline is uninformed and thus easily discarded.

I don't care what in Aaron's history/tenure at Marvel you liked and what you have not, we're talking about his skills as a storyteller AT PRESENT, which, if you're not reading, you don't get to have a say on without everything you say being a fallacy of logic.

I love X-Men fans who come here all 'ooogabooga Avengers suck, ooogabooga Aaron sucks' based on AvX which is not only 8-years-old as an event, in other words long, LONG past time to let go of, but was management mandated because of a financial power play over IP film rights. I mean, you do realize that not everything a Marvel writer writes was their idea, correct? Both Saladin Ahmed and Seanan McGuire have tweeted about it. Anyway, none of you know what you're talking about if you're not actually reading Avengers so your words on the current state of events within the MU are meaningless. Have a nice day now.

i am reading his current avengers run that's the problem

more specifically avengers 20.
that was unprofessional.

im not really super biased for the avengers or x-men either.

aaron's unpredictable man

[BroHomo]

Absolutely none of what you just said negates the fact that the X-Men are acting like a cult and the Jonestown cult in particular. The similarities are there and they are, pun intended, uncanny.

Does racism exist? Yes, sadly. The way to combat it is not through isolationism but rather education. So you bringing it up at all in this debate is a straw man. BTW racism existed for the Jonestown cult members, too, 70% of their membership was minorities. That’s how Jim Jones got to them, by promising them a place without bigotry, only to actually lead them all to hell.

Franklin Richards has a family.

Well Mutants are NOT being isolated from their friends and families.We've seen humans living on Krakoa. I brought up racism because you implied that ALL mutants are the targets of a multitude of hate groups. They're not 'making up' an enemy, you can spout all the "Wait, theyll come around" or "Education beats Hatred" rhetoric all you want, but that **** dont help when you and your family and friends getting hit attacked by your own government, blown up on buses, terrorized by Gigantic death Robots. I mean seriously can you imagine the effin horror you'd feel if you walked outta your place and saw a skyscraper tall robot designed to kill/contain people like you?? There are numerous towns scattered through the south (and rest of US) that are devoid of pratically devoid of minorities (specifically black people) call sundown towns. The 'Green Book' movie is deals with the fallout one of the characters time in one. These towns through harrassment, racist arbitrary laws, etc would drive minorities outta town. Youre implying that if in the same situation you'd stay? Also who is going to be doing all this human education? Why does it fall to mutants to educate people who hate them as to why they deserve to be treated fairly?

Also no one on Krakoa, is being forced to stay there, theres gates all over the place to go anywhere youd like. They arent providing money to Krakoa, Arent being separated from their kids, or going hungry.
Its strawman to being up the racism mutants are escaping but you bring up One mutant as a point? And hes not even on Krakoa lol Hes with Doom...ya know the dude who country is actually on par with NK but its cool to let 'genius' Valeria play with her "Uncle Doom" whenever she feels like it? Reeeeal Smart

And, again, none of this negates the fact that the current X-Men arc bares striking similarities to the Jonestown cult. Put your head in the sand all you want, ignore history, just keep in mind that those who do not learn from history are Doomed (pun intended here as well) to repeat it.

If by putting my head in the sand means not lusting after the destruction of Krakoa then Okay. You the similarities of the 2 are so broad and superficial it could apply to many different things. Hmmm how about the Avengers Initiative?
1.These people HAD to register if they wanted to use their powers. They HAD to go to these training camps SEPARATED from their friends and family
2. Made to repeat mantras, learn military tactics, given a common enemy led to believe they were apart of some revolution.
3. Some even died.
According to you thats about as similar to Jonestown you can get.

We don't really know how the resurrection works yet. In fact, many of us are wondering if it actually works and this isn't just some cool copy and pasting of memories with no souls involved at all.

We do have Mistress Death on death's door, sure, but we also don't have other mystic minded individuals noticing a ton of souls going back and forth. And the X-Men are acting different.

They've explained it a couple of times. What else do you want? Its a comic book. I think its done a preety good job explaining whats going on, and the resurrection protocols make more sense then say....being able to survive frozen in a block of ice for half a century, we've seen many different versions of the afterlife in Marvel. there's no One Heaven or ONe Hell. so for people to go on and on about the soul are forgetting that most of the world's population believes in some form of reincarnation.

As time wore on, Jones conducted ritual beatings of his followers. If someone did something he didn't like or if he was just high AF, someone would be beaten and then they would be expected to be appreciative of the beating.

The fact is, Charles knows that many mutants have nowhere to go. He knows that they don't have families and if they step outside of those gates for even a seecond, they will be murdered.

And do they really even just stop at vilifying humans? No, because they need a specific person to hate: they need Satan. So they turn to hating Wanda because it's easier.

ooooh kay No one is getting ritualistic beatdown punshiments
Sooooo what you propose they do with these mutants?
Wanda killed a buncha mutants...theres no need to vilify her, shes done it already. Nothing theyve said about Wanda is particularly exaggerated or made up.

[Starfish]

We don't really know how the resurrection works yet. In fact, many of us are wondering if it actually works and this isn't just some cool copy and pasting of memories with no souls involved at all.

Didn't X-Men #6 more or less confirm they're copies? The Orchis strike team had to be restored from backups with no memories of how their mission went, which is why they had to send Mystique back through the gate to check if her predecessor succeeded.

[PhoenixThanos]

I'm sure Mephisto would like these souls

[Rosebunse]

Didn't X-Men #6 more or less confirm they're copies? The Orchis strike team had to be restored from backups with no memories of how their mission went, which is why they had to send Mystique back through the gate to check if her predecessor succeeded.

So they're copies? Because the issue
Comes in the form of souls. Have those returned to their bodies?

And while we see mutants leaving Krakoa, many of those are ones who can pass for human and who have their own money. Krakoa is in its early stages, things are still good, but as things get worse, will that keep on?

Because the Peoples' Temple was pretty open until the end.

[capandkirby]

Well Mutants are NOT being isolated from their friends and families.We've seen humans living on Krakoa. I brought up racism because you implied that ALL mutants are the targets of a multitude of hate groups. They're not 'making up' an enemy, you can spout all the "Wait, theyll come around" or "Education beats Hatred" rhetoric all you want, but that **** dont help when you and your family and friends getting hit attacked by your own government, blown up on buses, terrorized by Gigantic death Robots. I mean seriously can you imagine the effin horror you'd feel if you walked outta your place and saw a skyscraper tall robot designed to kill/contain people like you?? There are numerous towns scattered through the south (and rest of US) that are devoid of pratically devoid of minorities (specifically black people) call sundown towns. The 'Green Book' movie is deals with the fallout one of the characters time in one. These towns through harrassment, racist arbitrary laws, etc would drive minorities outta town. Youre implying that if in the same situation you'd stay? Also who is going to be doing all this human education? Why does it fall to mutants to educate people who hate them as to why they deserve to be treated fairly?

Not rhetoric. Did segregation make things better in the states? No it did not. Did apartheid improve racial relations in South Africa? No it did not. The absolute least effective way to combat racism is through isolation and/or segregation. You combat it through placing your kids in mixed race schools, in taking them to pride, in taking them with you to vote and explaining to them, in ways they'll understand, why you're voting a certain way. You join protests and marches for equal rights. And when you personally witness an intolerance, film it, put it on the internet, so the public at large can shame the perpetrator of the intolerance.

Your parasocial relationship with fictional characters does not supersede truth, and actual history. It's insulting that you think it does.

MOREOVER, the human population at large, as a whole, is not building Sentinels to take out the X-Men. Papa Joe down the street probably could even afford the parts to build one because despite the fact that he's now over 40, he's probably STILL paying off his ridiculous student loans. And since he was a humanities major, it's doubtful he'd even know HOW, he works in an insurance office guzzling coffee all day for christ sakes. And even then, assuming he did have the means and the ability, he undoubtedly has a billion more important things to focus his time and resources on, like say a mortgage and putting his kids through college. And the Papa Joe's of the world FAR outnumber those who have the financial means, hatred and knowledge in which to build a Sentinel.

What you're referring to, i.e. people who have actively gone after the X-Men, is a very select group of people/government who see the X-Men as a threat and took inhumane and ethically grotesque means to combat what they see as a problem. The best way to reach the Papa Joes of the world, who, again, outnumber those with the financial and technical means of building a Sentinel with all that hatred burning in their cold black hearts, is to let them know what is going on. Put faces to the issue. Let them know what atrocities are being committed with their tax dollars instead of applying that money towards fixing the roads or making sure every child across the country has a school lunch and isn't starving. Like Bruce is trying to do right now in the Hulk book.



Also, interpreting the whole 'next stage of evolution thing' as a fight for dominance between humanity and the X-Men, were only one can be the victor in this eternal battle over earth, is a flawed premise to begin with, just FYI. Fun fact? Homo sapiens did not kill off the Neanderthals. They absorbed them. Meaning early mankind and Neanderthals mated, had offspring, those offspring had offspring, and eventually, through the passage of time, Neanderthal DNA became buried within human DNA and the Neanderthal as they once existed were no more but they still live within us.

https://www.livescience.com/64189-ne...rbreeding.html

Also no one on Krakoa, is being forced to stay there, theres gates all over the place to go anywhere youd like. They arent providing money to Krakoa, Arent being separated from their kids, or going hungry.
Its strawman to being up the racism mutants are escaping but you bring up One mutant as a point? And hes not even on Krakoa lol Hes with Doom...ya know the dude who country is actually on par with NK but its cool to let 'genius' Valeria play with her "Uncle Doom" whenever she feels like it? Reeeeal Smart

You just can't help yourself with the straw mans, can you? Doom and Valeria are not the issue here. What the F4 have or haven't allowed with their children visiting with Doom is inconsequential. The point here is that the X-Men are acting like a cult. Cult leaders always, ALWAYS, appeal to the disenfranchised of society. People who feel prosecuted. Runaways. The abused. Jim Jones did it. David Koresh did it. Charles Manson did it. Then they take their followers and separate them from the rest of society. It gives them better control. Once separated, they incorporate rituals that serve like brainwashing that makes the followers feel that they are a part of something larger than themselves, you know, like this crucible that just went down? They convince their followers that they are revolutionists towards a new world order, they do this through the application of fear and tribalism. All of this is evident in the current X-Men arc. Nothing you have said refutes this. And you're not going to change my mind so you're wasting your time trying. With everything you say I just become more and more convinced that you've let your affection for fictional characters outweigh the actual logistics of the argument.

If by putting my head in the sand means not lusting after the destruction of Krakoa then Okay.

You could have saved us both so much time and effort if you had just said from the beginning that you like the story and hope it continues instead of trying to argue morality using every fallacy of logic known to mankind and your stan-colored glasses.

You the similarities of the 2 are so broad and superficial it could apply to many different things. Hmmm how about the Avengers Initiative?
1.These people HAD to register if they wanted to use their powers. They HAD to go to these training camps SEPARATED from their friends and family
2. Made to repeat mantras, learn military tactics, given a common enemy led to believe they were apart of some revolution.
3. Some even died.
According to you thats about as similar to Jonestown you can get.

LOL! JFC. You can't help yourself with these logical fallacies, can you? Quite trying to move the goal post! But since you did bring it up. You're right. The Avengers Initiative was atrocious. It was forced conscription, much like the draft. It was also profiling, as it only applied to a select group of people based on physical attributes (again like the draft, as the primary targets of the draft were those who were poor and minorities, the rich largely bought their way out of it). I was on Cap's side during Civil War. He was absolutely right. If a law is unfair, you protest. You fight it. You let your voice be heard.

But regardless, the Avengers Initiative has nothing to do with the Jonestown comparison or the current X-Men story. In the Avengers Initiative supes were conscripted through an unfair and human rights violating law (a law that should have never passed congress as the means in which the SHRA was enforced were direct violations of the fourth and fifth amendments to the constitution), in the case of cults and the current X-Men story membership is initially voluntary (though the poor children born into it have that choice taken from them), for all that coercion is heavily applied.