World War X

[gurkle]

Wanda is not part of the current Avengers team. Nor has she been announced in any of the solicits to be joining the Avenges any time in the near future (which both Natasha and Blade were prior to their joining, we were always forewarned to new membership), though she will be part of a different team during Empyre that Zub is writing, but not a part of the Avengers proper. I'm sorry to say your personal desire to have Wanda taken down a peg (which, to me, seems like overkill considering Wanda hasn't had any agency for well over a decade now in Marvel comics, considering that for almost all events of the past decade she's been brainwashed/possessed/mind-controlled or insane... as a female comic reader I side-eye the hell out of this) probably wont be realized. As it stands, right now, the Avengers consist of chair, T'Challa, and members: Steve, Tony, Thor, Jen, Carol and Robbie. With Blade and Natasha serving as rotational members.

Fair enough, though I'm speaking not as someone who wants to see Wanda taken down a peg, but someone who doesn't.

I think Hickman's disparaging references to "The Pretender" leading up to some kind of story involving her and I think this will likely play out in some kind of crossover. That may not even happen until Aaron is off the book though.

[capandkirby]

Fair enough, though I'm speaking not as someone who wants to see Wanda taken down a peg, but someone who doesn't.

I think Hickman's disparaging references to "The Pretender" leading up to some kind of story involving her and I think this will likely play out in some kind of crossover. That may not even happen until Aaron is off the book though.

Good to hear re:Wanda. Like I said, as a female reader I take exception to the fact that Wanda has had very little agency over her mind/body in almost half a dozen events now over the course of a decade. Doing it once for the sake of story? Okay, that's easy to let slide. Plenty of male characters have met similar fates. But it's been a specific pattern with her, one used over and over again, and that is troublesome.

But, like I said, she is a part of an off-shoot Avengers team put together specifically for the Empyre event, so there's that. That team will consist of Scarlet Witch, Black Knight, Doctor Voodoo, Ka-Zar, and Man-Thing. So maybe that is what Hickman had in mind. Jim Zub is writing it.

[king of hybrids]

I would strongly wager that Hickman stoking the fires about Wanda around the same time her own show is being marketed probably isn’t 100% unconnected

[Rosebunse]

Good to hear re:Wanda. Like I said, as a female reader I take exception to the fact that Wanda has had very little agency over her mind/body in almost half a dozen events now over the course of a decade. Doing it once for the sake of story? Okay, that's easy to let slide. Plenty of male characters have met similar fates. But it's been a specific pattern with her, one used over and over again, and that is troublesome.

But, like I said, she is a part of an off-shoot Avengers team put together specifically for the Empyre event, so there's that. That team will consist of Scarlet Witch, Black Knight, Doctor Voodoo, Ka-Zar, and Man-Thing. So maybe that is what Hickman had in mind. Jim Zub is writing it.

Yeah, as a female reader myself, the situation with Wanda can get...fun. And Hickman himself doesn't have the best track record when it comes to writing women. In fact, before HoX, I had him pegged as a writer who just couldn't write women.

But his work with Moira, Destiny, and Emma has me intrigued. And I'm willing to see where he takes Wanda. He clearly doesn't believe that she herself is the problem, but the X-Men need a villain since outside of the faceless human groups, they don't have one.

No, they need a face to their fear and unfortunately, Wanda is an easy target.

[capandkirby]

Yeah, as a female reader myself, the situation with Wanda can get...fun. And Hickman himself doesn't have the best track record when it comes to writing women. In fact, before HoX, I had him pegged as a writer who just couldn't write women.

But his work with Moira, Destiny, and Emma has me intrigued. And I'm willing to see where he takes Wanda. He clearly doesn't believe that she herself is the problem, but the X-Men need a villain since outside of the faceless human groups, they don't have one.

No, they need a face to their fear and unfortunately, Wanda is an easy target.

Interesting.

For the sake of transparency, I am stating here and now that I'm not reading the X-Men, which is why I've stated, over and over, that the Avengers and the X-Men might as well exist within separate universes for me as a reader as nothing within the books I am reading (which includes Avengers and several solo titles, I actually do have a pretty extensive pull-list at present, I'm pretty much reading almost everything BUT the X-Men) has anything to do with Krakoa, but the entire situation with the X-Men, from what I have heard and gathered on this site, and what you're saying now, sounds to me like Hickman is basing this entire thing off the real-life events of Jonestown.

Take a group of people who feel prosecuted and marginalized and promise them a utopia free from harm/racism was step 1 of how Jim Jones convinced people join his cult. 70% of Jonestown was composed of minorities.

At first Jim Jones was affable, he dined with politicians, seemed to know all of the right people, first lady Rosalyn Carter, Governor Jerry Brown, etc. This was how he amassed followers and this was how he got to step 2.

Step 2: He talked his followers into moving to a foreign country, onto property he had purchased in Guyana, isolating them away from their families and friends. He called this settlement Jonestown.

Step 3 became giving them a common enemy and brainwashing them, partly via public rituals and also through 'classes', to become soldiers, he had his followers believing themselves to be revolutionists in a new world order.

Excerpt from the Wikipedia on Jonestown:

Jones was known to regularly study Adolf Hitler and Father Divine to learn how to manipulate members of the cult. Divine told Jones personally to "find an enemy" and "to make sure they know who the enemy is" as it will unify those in the group and make them subservient to him.[83]

...if this is indeed what Charles Xavier and his band of merry men are doing, then I will continue to hope that the Avengers have absolutely nothing to do with it. Because it sounds like a powder keg just waiting to go off.

Jonestown did not meet a fun end. Ever hear the phrase 'don't drink the kool-aid'? All common phrases have an origin, something they are based off of and in Jonestown 918 people lost their life by drinking the kool-aid. Jim Jones talked them into dying, into killing themselves and their children. He made it seem like death was preferable to life out in the regular world.

[Ferro]

Cosigning you both. Given that Jason Aaron has been building up a global arms race for superhuman strike teams in his Avengers run, it would make more sense to me that those strike teams coming from nations that aren't on good terms with Krakoa right now are the ones directly deployed against Krakoa. The new Squadron Supreme of America would especially make more sense to me as the superhuman strike team deployed on behalf of American geopolitical interests to neutralize Krakoa, since the Avengers have made it clear, particularly lately, that they don't answer to any one nation or government so much as they protect the whole world and everyone in it regardless of national borders or political interests.

With that in mind, the only sensible way I could see for the Avengers to be pulled into this would be acting as a neutral or unaligned party trying to prevent innocent lives from getting caught in the crossfire of nationalized super-teams ganging up on Krakoa and/or Krakoa retaliating against its attackers. Either way, the Avengers' goal wouldn't be tilting the war in favor of one side or the other, but instead deescalating it before too many innocent lives are lost and/or someone commits an atrocity that would just escalate the war until one or more sides are completely destroyed.

Still I would care if literaly every thing he does in this run wasnt consistently ignored by the larger marvel universe, aaron doesnt call any shots.
And this run is a joke.

[capandkirby]

Still I would care if literaly every thing he does in this run wasnt consistently ignored by the larger marvel universe, aaron doesnt call any shots.
And this run is a joke.

Not a joke to me. I'm quite enjoying it, thank you.

[Rosebunse]

Still I would care if literaly every thing he does in this run wasnt consistently ignored by the larger marvel universe, aaron doesnt call any shots.
And this run is a joke.

I've been enjoying it. His run has been pretty fun, better than Bendis's later run.

[XPac]

Still I would care if literaly every thing he does in this run wasnt consistently ignored by the larger marvel universe, aaron doesnt call any shots.
And this run is a joke.

Hickmans Avengers run was initially ignored by the rest of the larger marvel universe too, but eventually it did have an impact. It's possible the same will be said for Aarons run too. In recent years larger marvel universe events have been very closely tied to the Avengers narrative, so I think you almost have to expect it.

[Ferro]

Hickmans Avengers run was initially ignored by the rest of the larger marvel universe too, but eventually it did have an impact. It's possible the same will be said for Aarons run too. In recent years larger marvel universe events have been very closely tied to the Avengers narrative, so I think you almost have to expect it.

like his celestial nonsense, phoenix nonsense and other things that have been competly ignored?
isnt thor on his own book not in the team, another part that is ignored.
and its 2 years into the run and those sales look precarious love. I will belive it when I see it.

[capandkirby]

like his celestial nonsense, phoenix nonsense and other things that have been competly ignored?
isnt thor on his own book not in the team, another part that is ignored.
and its 2 years into the run and those sales look precarious love. I will belive it when I see it.

It sells over 20k, which means it makes money for Marvel. Which Avengers does. Easily. Each and every issue sells over 20k, even over 30 issues into a run. The difference being that most of the Avengers ALSO have solo books, and those books, re: Robbie's, Thor's, Cap's and Iron Man's ALSO sell over 20k as solo titles and therefore make Marvel money. Do you honestly think Marvel is going to turn away money when superhero comics AS A WHOLE (X-Men, F4 and Avengers ALL) only make 10% of comic sales these days, with the market favoring manga and Raina Telgemeier YA graphic novels? LOL.

I said it before I'll say it again, the market can't afford to lose ANY title that sells over 20k at the moment, not without risking the monthly serial as a whole, so tone that condensation down a bit.

And Aaron's Thor run is being made into a movie. But go off, I guess.

[Ferro]

It sells over 20k, which means it makes money for Marvel. Which Avengers does. Easily. Each and every issue sells over 20k, even over 30 issues into a run. The difference being that most of the Avengers ALSO have solo books, and those books, re: Robbie's, Thor's, Cap's and Iron Man's ALSO sell over 20k as solo titles and therefore make Marvel money. Do you honestly think Marvel is going to turn away money when superhero comics AS A WHOLE (X-Men, F4 and Avengers ALL) only make 10% of comic sales these days, with the market favoring manga and Raina Telgemeier YA graphic novels? LOL.

I said it before I'll say it again, the market can't afford to lose ANY title that sells over 20k at the moment, not without risking the monthly serial as a whole, so tone that condensation down a bit.

And Aaron's Thor run is being made into a movie. But go off, I guess.

but aarons run on thor was good, key difrence there.
doesnt change the fact aaron is talking off his ass and i doubt any crossover is coming

[capandkirby]

but aarons run on thor was good, key difrence there.

You're arguing from YOUR personal opinion, which means it's highly subjective. Myself and others have stated that they're enjoying it.

A run is not defined by your personal opinion on it.

[XPac]

like his celestial nonsense, phoenix nonsense and other things that have been competly ignored?
isnt thor on his own book not in the team, another part that is ignored.
and its 2 years into the run and those sales look precarious love. I will belive it when I see it.

The Celestial stuff I think is actually laying the ground work for other stuff, since we know an Eternals movie is coming out. It's an explanation of why earth has so many metas and I think that will end up translating to the MCU getting superhumans and possibly mutants... but we'll see. Story isn't over yet, and Hickmans stuff didn't tie into anything else until the very very end.

As far as Thor not being on the team... characters with solo books who are also on teams tend to work that way. Cap in his own book is a fugitive from the law, and T'Challa only just returned to earth in recent months after being in space for years. Avengers isn't really reflectibng anything that's going on in Thor, Captain America, Black Panther or Captain Marvel. And it probably shouldn't have to in real time... just because 2 books are published in the same month doesn't mean they're taking place at the same time. Only time books really need to line up perfectly is when they are tying into events or each other.

[capandkirby]

The Celestial stuff I think is actually laying the ground work for other stuff, since we know an Eternals movie is coming out. It's an explanation of why earth has so many metas and I think that will end up translating to the MCU getting superhumans and possibly mutants... but we'll see. Story isn't over yet, and Hickmans stuff didn't tie into anything else until the very very end.

As far as Thor not being on the team... characters with solo books who are also on teams tend to work that way. Cap in his own book is a fugitive from the law, and T'Challa only just returned to earth in recent months after being in space for years. Avengers isn't really reflectibng anything that's going on in Thor, Captain America, Black Panther or Captain Marvel. And it probably shouldn't have to in real time... just because 2 books are published in the same month doesn't mean they're taking place at the same time. Only time books really need to line up perfectly is when they are tying into events or each other.

Exactly. That's a good point about the Celestials. Also, Avengers HAS tied in to other books, mainly Hulk, and Invaders. Roxxon, for example, is a common enemy of the Avengers and Hulk right now and the Invaders actively fought them as the final battle of that book. Ewing and Aaron (and Zdarsky, though the Invaders is now over) have, at least, been copacetic. The next issue of Avengers is the one where the Squadron Supreme, the Winter Guard, the vampires and the Defenders of the Deep band together to take out the Avengers, with Namor being a tie between all three books (re: he's working with Bruce in Hulk, he's been in Avengers, and, naturally, Invaders).

As for the Cap title, Steve's thought bubbles are all in past-tense, which leads me to believe that the events of the Cap book take place before the events of Avengers.