World War X

[BroHomo]

OK, are they mutants? What was the consensus on that?

Speed calls him and Wiccan Mutants
Emma Frost called then both mutants
Wiccan was on a future version of X-Men

buut tbh I guess it could go either way

[H-E-D]

The other issue is that, due to the themes and metaphors of the X-Franchise, the non-X heroes, especially those still adhering to the usual morality of the genre, will start off as villainous by default.

Or at least that’ll be the justification given for cheering *rolls dice* Sabretooth being let loose on some heroes family or something

You'd think so, but look how AvX was handled. Honestly, if they're going to fight (hopefully they won't), it's the Avengers turn to be the bad guys.

[Snoop Dogg]

Jason Aaron needs to free Hydra from Coates/Rosenberg hell before adding a mutant team for the Vengies to fight.

[XPac]

You'd think so, but look how AvX was handled. Honestly, if they're going to fight (hopefully they won't), it's the Avengers turn to be the bad guys.

Honestly I think the X-Men almost have to be wrong here.

The X-Men's entire foundation was always based on Xaviers dream of mutants and humans co-existing together peacefully, and the current status quo as pragmatic as it is flies against that. The moral of the story can't be segregation is the way to go. The current status quo has to ultimately fail at the end, just like every other attempt at doing something like this has (Asteroid M, Avalon, Genosha, Utopia, Nation X).

Which isn't to say X-Mena are necessarily "bad guys"... but in the end the direction they were going on has to crash and burn.

[Rosebunse]

Honestly I think the X-Men almost have to be wrong here.

The X-Men's entire foundation was always based on Xaviers dream of mutants and humans co-existing together peacefully, and the current status quo as pragmatic as it is flies against that. The moral of the story can't be segregation is the way to go. The current status quo has to ultimately fail at the end, just like every other attempt at doing something like this has (Asteroid M, Avalon, Genosha, Utopia, Nation X).

Which isn't to say X-Mena are necessarily "bad guys"... but in the end the direction they were going on has to crash and burn.

And it isn't even just how they're treating humans right now. They've basically made all precogs illegal just because Moira is afraid of them. Poor Blindfold...

[H-E-D]

Honestly I think the X-Men almost have to be wrong here.

The X-Men's entire foundation was always based on Xaviers dream of mutants and humans co-existing together peacefully, and the current status quo as pragmatic as it is flies against that. The moral of the story can't be segregation is the way to go. The current status quo has to ultimately fail at the end, just like every other attempt at doing something like this has (Asteroid M, Avalon, Genosha, Utopia, Nation X).

Which isn't to say X-Mena are necessarily "bad guys"... but in the end the direction they were going on has to crash and burn.

I think it'll only crash and burn if the sales do. Hickman has been pretty clear that he thinks the X-Men need to no longer be defined by constant loss and destruction, and that there's no other shoe waiting to drop as long as Krakoa is concerned in his plans.

One could make an argument that the theme wouldn't be "segregation is the way to go", but "communal solidarity is the way to go". Disadvantaged communities come together and create spaces of their own all the time.

And it isn't even just how they're treating humans right now. They've basically made all precogs illegal just because Moira is afraid of them. Poor Blindfold...

The mutants aren't mistreating humans in any way. They're just keeping their distance.

[Rosebunse]

They're invading countries and the implied result of Moira and company are going for is for all mutant consciousness to be merged together to create a super intelligence. Does that second part sound not-disturbing to you?

[XPac]

I think it'll only crash and burn if the sales do. Hickman has been pretty clear that he thinks the X-Men need to no longer be defined by constant loss and destruction, and that there's no other shoe waiting to drop as long as Krakoa is concerned in his plans.

One could make an argument that the theme wouldn't be "segregation is the way to go", but "communal solidarity is the way to go". Disadvantaged communities come together and create spaces of their own all the time.



The mutants aren't mistreating humans in any way. They're just keeping their distance.

Sales won't crash and burn. X-Men books sell. I just don't believe Hickmans status quo will necessarily go beyond Hickmans X-Men run.

ANd sure disadvantaged communities come together all the time... that was the point of Xaviers school. But this goes way beyond that. They're basically setting themselves up to go to war with the rest of the planet... which is pretty much always the inevtiable outcome of going against Xaviers dream and taking the Magneto route. And that's where they will crash and burn as always.

Plus it's a Hickman story. When do these things not majorly crash and burn in the end.

[XPac]

They're invading countries and the implied result of Moira and company are going for is for all mutant consciousness to be merged together to create a super intelligence. Does that second part sound not-disturbing to you?

It's all very very creepy... and I'm sure that's by design.

Regardless of how pragmatic and understandable a lot of this is, I think most readers can feel something is just... off about all of it. It just doesn't feel right. I'm not even talking about the moral implications about some of the more questionable things they are doing... I think the story is intentionally trying to make what Xavier is doing as feeling cult-ish.

[BroHomo]

They're invading countries and the implied result of Moira and company are going for is for all mutant consciousness to be merged together to create a super intelligence. Does that second part sound not-disturbing to you?

Uh it sounds completely false. If you invade a country your intent is to subjugate/pillage said country... the X-Men are literally helping Mutants escape a sh!try situation....The fiends!!

ANd sure disadvantaged communities come together all the time... that was the point of Xaviers school. But this goes way beyond that. They're basically setting themselves up to go to war with the rest of the planet... which is pretty much always the inevtiable outcome of going against Xaviers dream and taking the Magneto route.

Uh How? By making humans healthier? lol What's the difference between Krakoa and...Wakanda? Or any other sovereign nation? Or the OG Asgard? Attilan? Oherworld? DCs Themyscira? All we've seen on Krakoa is dancing and smiling faces If this is Magneto's aggressive antagonistic Way Xavier's must've been mutants paving the world's road with smiles on their faces
+++
Moira's showed Xavier what happens if he continues his peaceful path...Mutants get wiped out

Regardless of how pragmatic and understandable a lot of this is, I think most readers can feel something is just... off about all of it. It just doesn't feel right. I'm not even talking about the moral implications about some of the more questionable things they are doing... I think the story is intentionally trying to make what Xavier is doing as feeling cult-ish.

Only thing off is the heavily complained about cycle of X-Men facing extinction seems the X-Men are Damned either way. But how is Xavier's Krakoa nation a appearing cultish?

[Drops Of Venus]

I actually don't mind hero vs hero stories. If there is a good pitch, I say go for it. It can turn out to be a good or a bad story, but that's a risk that exists on literally any story. It's not like a book will be automatically good just because it presents a hero vs villain narrative. And it's not like every hero vs villain narrative feels fresh and groundbreaking. Superhero comic books have existed for a long time; recycling stories it's just what they do at this point. And with the X-Men, I definitely think there are some interesting things being built in their current stories that could lead to a good conflict. If a good story comes out of it, great. If a bad story comes out of it, well, I can always move on and read another one. It's really not a big deal for me.

Actually, this brings up a good point. What do you do about that many reality warpers? Something has to take them out.

Also, the Avengers also have Wiccan. I wouldn't count him out.

Ha, if only Marvel remembered to use Wiccan in main events. I think the last time he had any sort of relevant role in a main event book was back in Civil War.

But speaking of reality warpers on the non-X-men side, they also have Nico Minoru, Reader and Kid Kaiju. They are more limited in their powerset in comparison to Wiccan, but all of them warp reality in some manner (Nico can make pretty much anything happen with the right word, Reader can read things into existence and Kid Kaiju draws things into existence). Scarlet Witch too, of course, even though she doesn't have the same omnipotent powers she did back in AD/HOM, she still has her basic probability manipulation powers, which is a form of reality warping. And Franklin Richards, whose allegiance is still not very clear; he might not choose to be with the X-Men in the upcoming FF/X-Men crossover. But I don't expect Marvel to be creative enough to come up with a story that involves all of their reality warpers. It would be pretty cool, though.

Well he's only one....
Plus he's a mutant who's to say he and Teddy don't have a Krakoa hut on fire island or Ibiza

I don't actually think the Avengers office see Billy (and Tommy) as mutants, tbh. But even if they did, I don't think Billy would be welcome in Krakoa for two main reasons.

1. His allegiance to Wanda and the Avengers. He sided with them over the X-Men once before, and I imagine that would be a huge dealbreaker for mutants, who would probably not consider him trustworthy.

2. Billy has clairvoyant powers (his ''multiversal googling'' thing allows him to see not one, but multiple different futures), so he wouldn't be allowed in Krakoa anyway.

[XPac]

Uh it sounds completely false. If you invade a country your intent is to subjugate/pillage said country... the X-Men are literally helping Mutants escape a sh!try situation....The fiends!!

Uh How? By making humans healthier? lol What's the difference between Krakoa and...Wakanda? Or any other sovereign nation? Or the OG Asgard? Attilan? Oherworld? DCs Themyscira? All we've seen on Krakoa is dancing and smiling faces If this is Magneto's aggressive antagonistic Way Xavier's must've been mutants paving the world's road with smiles on their faces
+++
Moira's showed Xavier what happens if he continues his peaceful path...Mutants get wiped out

Only thing off is the heavily complained about cycle of X-Men facing extinction seems the X-Men are Damned either way. But how is Xavier's Krakoa nation a appearing cultish?

You're genuinely not seeing the conflict building? Krokoa itself has already deemed any nation that hasn't accepted the trade deal is a hostile nation.

But maybe you're right, and conflict will be avoided with the mutants having big smiling faces in the end. We'll see....

[BroHomo]

I don't actually think the Avengers office see Billy (and Tommy) as mutants, tbh. But even if they did, I don't think Billy would be welcome in Krakoa for two main reasons.

1. His allegiance to Wanda and the Avengers. He sided with them over the X-Men once before, and I imagine that would be a huge dealbreaker for mutants, who would probably not consider him trustworthy.

2. Billy has clairvoyant powers (his ''multiversal googling'' thing allows him to see not one, but multiple different futures), so he wouldn't be allowed in Krakoa anyway.

Speed is Cool and Welcomed but Billy...
He can burn with the rest

[Frostbite883]

I just don't know why you all think thisnis such a bad idea, especially with Hickman and Marvel's other current crop at the helm.

For what it's worth, Rose, I want to see how events play out in the X-Books and don't think the direction they're in is necessary a bad one.

[XPac]

Two thoughts first the avengers would start the fight because the dont treat the xmen right and two the xmen have literally every reality warper except Franklin richards on their side....

There's no doubt that right now the X-Men are VERY powerful and VERY dangerous. If a conflict arises I very much think the X-Men will basically kick everyone's behind... until the end of the story.