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Thread: World War X

  1. #46
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by king of hybrids View Post
    It is a rumor that seems to exist only on this forum.

    It will take at least a year to get the rest of the MU up to speed on the new status quo (odds are Aaronís not touching them until the inevitable Phoenix arc in Avengers) before we can get around to Contemplating the start of active hostility
    Course, the rest of the MU basically ignored Hickmans Avengers run until right before Secret Wars. So in theory we don't need the other books to reflect whats going on in the X books UNLESS or UNTIL a big company wide event comes over the horizen.

  2. #47
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    You're genuinely not seeing the conflict building? .

    But maybe you're right, and conflict will be avoided with the mutants having big smiling faces in the end. We'll see....
    No because we know the big story point. In Hox 2 Moria tries with Magneto,Xavier and Apocalypse going to war with Humans in various lives

    Capture.jpg

    Capture1.jpg

    Capture2.jpg

    And Mutants lose, Xavier and Magneto knows mutant lose if they go to War. Moria show Xavier this her lives, Xavier showed Magneto. It is huge plot point that Mutants have tried and failed direct conflict. Why would Hickman be making an event that goes against his story point.
    Last edited by Killerbee911; 10-30-2019 at 11:56 PM.

  3. #48
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    No because we know the big story point. In Hox 2 Moria tries with Magneto,Xavier and Apocalypse going to war with Humans in various lives

    Capture.jpg

    Capture1.jpg

    Capture2.jpg

    And Mutants lose, Xavier and Magneto knows mutant lose if they go to War. Moria show Xavier this her lives, Xavier showed Magneto. It is huge plot point that Mutants have tried and failed direct conflict. Why would Hickman be making an event that goes against his story point.
    Because a war with the rest of the world doesn't go against the point of his story.

    Yes, Xavier is TRYING to avoid a war with humanity which mutants ultimately would lose. And yes they would and should try and avoid direct conflict. That by no means gurantees that a conflict isn't going to happen, just as it did EVERY other time Moria has tried preventing it.

  4. #49
    Astonishing Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    It would seem a conflict is inevitable with or without Moira
    GrindrStone(D)

  5. #50
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    In fairness there are probably ways to take the fight to the non-mutants while not engaging in a direct conflict that Krakoa might lose (a possibility that decreases daily as more and more mutants are revived); probably by leveraging Krakoaís economic, political and diplomatic and drug-based influence to have the humans do the fighting

    Quote Originally Posted by BroHomo View Post
    Never read
    AvX or
    IvX
    huh?
    I did. And I canít help but notice that every attempt to make the X-Men look like jackasses/villains (even where it is correct, and god knows that it happens more often than the X-Fans think) keep backfiring spectacularly because of the minority metaphor or because itís massively contrived to make the oppressed group the bad guys for rising against the oppressor, or because the writer wants an X-Book gig afterwards. I mean itís fairly clear that the outcome of AvX was influenced entirely by how well the Avengers movie did/was expected to do.

    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    Not to mention if they do it the other way around, mutants, who are often used as allegories for minorities, look even worse. We really donít need another AvX.
    Only when itís Ďkill/oppress all humansí, otherwise it makes the heroes look like the enforcers if the Status quo. But we really donít need another round

    Quote Originally Posted by H-E-D View Post
    You'd think so, but look how AvX was handled. Honestly, if they're going to fight (hopefully they won't), it's the Avengers turn to be the bad guys.
    Their the bad guy by default. Traditional superheroes are effectively a rebranding of ye olde knight errant. Heroic journey, noble deeds etc. and they were also upholders or progenitors of systems of oppression lasting centuries. While hardly working class heroes (being property of the Mouse as well), the X-Men can at least market themselves as revolutionaries against a corrupt status quo the superheroes cling to. So yeah, they are pretty much automatically Villains in the context of the X-Men narrative

    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Course, the rest of the MU basically ignored Hickmans Avengers run until right before Secret Wars. So in theory we don't need the other books to reflect whats going on in the X books UNLESS or UNTIL a big company wide event comes over the horizen.
    This is also true. I mean has the BP run even caught up to the awkwardness of Wakanda not recognising Krakoa despite Storm being on the Quiet Council?

    Avengers probably wonít touch the status quo until Aaron does a Phoenix arc

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by king of hybrids View Post
    In fairness there are probably ways to take the fight to the non-mutants while not engaging in a direct conflict that Krakoa might lose (a possibility that decreases daily as more and more mutants are revived); probably by leveraging Krakoaís economic, political and diplomatic and drug-based influence to have the humans do the fighting



    I did. And I canít help but notice that every attempt to make the X-Men look like jackasses/villains (even where it is correct, and god knows that it happens more often than the X-Fans think) keep backfiring spectacularly because of the minority metaphor or because itís massively contrived to make the oppressed group the bad guys for rising against the oppressor, or because the writer wants an X-Book gig afterwards. I mean itís fairly clear that the outcome of AvX was influenced entirely by how well the Avengers movie did/was expected to do.



    Only when itís Ďkill/oppress all humansí, otherwise it makes the heroes look like the enforcers if the Status quo. But we really donít need another round



    Their the bad guy by default. Traditional superheroes are effectively a rebranding of ye olde knight errant. Heroic journey, noble deeds etc. and they were also upholders or progenitors of systems of oppression lasting centuries. While hardly working class heroes (being property of the Mouse as well), the X-Men can at least market themselves as revolutionaries against a corrupt status quo the superheroes cling to. So yeah, they are pretty much automatically Villains in the context of the X-Men narrative



    This is also true. I mean has the BP run even caught up to the awkwardness of Wakanda not recognising Krakoa despite Storm being on the Quiet Council?

    Avengers probably wonít touch the status quo until Aaron does a Phoenix arc
    On Black Panther, it looks like Coates is setting TíChalla and Storm for an amicable breakup. She says that Wakanda is not her only nation (with a panel of the X-Men clearly referencing Krakoa) and that she wonít always be able to assure TíChalla peace of mind or happiness. So at this point it looks like Krakoa is established and she knows her and TíChallaís nations are at odds. They havenít actually sat down and had that convo yet though so weíll hopefully see the Wakandan reaction to Krakoa by the end of the arc.

  7. #52
    Astonishing Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by king of hybrids View Post
    I did. And I canít help but notice that every attempt to make the X-Men look like jackasses/villains (even where it is correct, and god knows that it happens more often than the X-Fans think) keep backfiring spectacularly because of the minority metaphor or because itís massively contrived to make the oppressed group the bad guys for rising against the oppressor, or because the writer wants an X-Book gig afterwards. I mean itís fairly clear that the outcome of AvX was influenced entirely by how well the Avengers movie did/was expected to do.
    Why would the hero team have to be the jackass or Villain 8n a Hero vs Hero situation? Was it that during Civil War? If the X-Men are really villains keeps backfiring it miiiight just be because they aren't? tbh I'm cloudy on how the minority metaphor is constantly preventing it from happening.

    Quote Originally Posted by king of hybrids View Post
    I mean itís fairly clear that the outcome of AvX was influenced entirely by how well the Avengers movie did/was expected to do.
    How so?
    GrindrStone(D)

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Course, the rest of the MU basically ignored Hickmans Avengers run until right before Secret Wars. So in theory we don't need the other books to reflect whats going on in the X books UNLESS or UNTIL a big company wide event comes over the horizen.
    I would't say that the rest of the MU ignored Hickman's Avengers run until right before. I would say that Hickman obviously told the other writers and editors some of his plans and books were coordinated around it so that things would go smoothly. And for the most part, they did. In this case, we're getting Krakoa mentioned quite a bit. Even in Contagion, it was rather a point that the whole conflict was made worse by the X-Men basically ignoring the end of the world.

  9. #54
    Mighty Member capandkirby's Avatar
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    Still don't think Marvel would be dumb enough to do another hero vs. hero story considering the ramifications, downward spiral, toll, whichever term you want to use, of AvX , Civil War 2 and Secret Empire on their readership. That said...

    The Avengers now know the secret of the uni-mind and have successfully implemented it to fend off the Final Host/Dark Celestials (re: first arc of Aaron's current run). The X-Men are NOT more powerful than the Celestials, whom the Avengers defeated with relative ease after engaging the uni-mind. And, in fact, it was the Celestials who made the X-Men possible to begin with. The Avengers, in a conflict, will be just fine, especially if they use Robbie as the conduit for all of their combined minds and powers, as they did in Avengers.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by capandkirby View Post
    Still don't think Marvel would be dumb enough to do another hero vs. hero story considering the ramifications, downward spiral, toll, whichever term you want to use, of AvX , Civil War 2 and Secret Empire on their readership. That said...

    The Avengers now know the secret of the uni-mind and have successfully implemented it to fend off the Final Host/Dark Celestials (re: first arc of Aaron's current run). The X-Men are NOT more powerful than the Celestials, whom the Avengers defeated with relative ease after engaging the uni-mind. And, in fact, it was the Celestials who made the X-Men possible to begin with. The Avengers, in a conflict, will be just fine, especially if they use Robbie as the conduit for all of their combined minds and powers, as they did in Avengers.
    This is true. The Avengers aren't going into this with no hope for a win. Plus, they have the Fantastic Four, probably the Guardians of the Galaxy, and whatever other teams are available and any dissenting X-Men escape the island.

  11. #56
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    The whole 'contagion' storyline was a mess. It just put moon knight in a arbitrary Deus ex machina role to save everyone for arbitrary reasons(supposedly his fractured psyche makes him immune to the Urchins mental control) instead of Iron Fist and Kunlun dealing with their messes or the other heroes like Dr Strange who have specifically trained to resist such occult influence
    Last edited by Desmark; 10-31-2019 at 08:23 AM.

  12. #57
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by capandkirby View Post
    Still don't think Marvel would be dumb enough to do another hero vs. hero story considering the ramifications, downward spiral, toll, whichever term you want to use, of AvX , Civil War 2 and Secret Empire on their readership. That said...

    The Avengers now know the secret of the uni-mind and have successfully implemented it to fend off the Final Host/Dark Celestials (re: first arc of Aaron's current run). The X-Men are NOT more powerful than the Celestials, whom the Avengers defeated with relative ease after engaging the uni-mind. And, in fact, it was the Celestials who made the X-Men possible to begin with. The Avengers, in a conflict, will be just fine, especially if they use Robbie as the conduit for all of their combined minds and powers, as they did in Avengers.
    With prep, the Avengers are hands down the most dangerous team on earth. They don't have the numbers, and arguably lack the flat out raw power of the X-Men at this point... but they have enough smart guys at their finger tips to come up with a plot device to overcome just about anything. Get Stark or T'Challa in a lab and they can whip up anti-Phoenix or anti-Celestial tech from the stuff they have lying around in the closet. And that's in addition to guys like Strange and Reed who they can believably call on if needed. I don't think Avengers would win round one or even round 2... but I'm 99.99% sure if it comes to it, the Avengers would win in the end. They would just need time.

    That said, this shouldn't necessarily be framed as an X-Men vs Avengers conflict. It COULD end up that way given Wakanda is specifically mentioned as hostile towards Krokoa, and T'Challa presently is leader of the Avengers... but at least at this point thats probably jumping the gun.

  13. #58
    Astonishing Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    With prep, the Avengers are hands down the most dangerous team on earth. They don't have the numbers, and arguably lack the flat out raw power of the X-Men at this point... but they have enough smart guys at their finger tips to come up with a plot device to overcome just about anything. Get Stark or T'Challa in a lab and they can whip up anti-Phoenix or anti-Celestial tech from the stuff they have lying around in the closet. And that's in addition to guys like Strange and Reed who they can believably call on if needed. I don't think Avengers would win round one or even round 2... but I'm 99.99% sure if it comes to it, the Avengers would win in the end. They would just need time.

    That said, this shouldn't necessarily be framed as an X-Men vs Avengers conflict. It COULD end up that way given Wakanda is specifically mentioned as hostile towards Krokoa, and T'Challa presently is leader of the Avengers... but at least at this point thats probably jumping the gun.
    Wakanda bein salty to a another non sapien nation double ugh
    GrindrStone(D)

  14. #59
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    This rumour just doesnít exist, a rumour is a possibly true story that come from possibly true insider sources that know about an industry usually because they work in it. This is some fan speculation, itís totally different.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterParked View Post
    This rumour just doesn’t exist, a rumour is a possibly true story that come from possibly true insider sources that know about an industry usually because they work in it. This is some fan speculation, it’s totally different.
    It’s also an idea that no-one wants

    Let’s all (myself included) wait until there’s an actual rumor before breaking out the measuring tape
    Last edited by king of hybrids; 10-31-2019 at 03:54 PM.

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