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Thread: World War X

  1. #76
    Mighty Member capandkirby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by king of hybrids View Post
    To reiterate.m: there is no event. The X-Men are not out to get our favs and vice versa.

    An vs event would be a catastrophe sales wise, as would villanizing the X-Men. A general status quo of Cold War between the X-Men and the other marvel properties is about as antagonistic as Marvel could/should get

    Maybe even a three-way conflict between Krakoa, the human governments and the superheroes (seeing as even the Winter Guard and Ascendants have bucked the leash more than occasionally)



    Oh it is going to blow up in their face. A genuinely slighted Mystique alone will ensure that.

    The only question is when, how and whether Krakoa survives
    Thank you!!! I agree, 100%. History has shown this.

    Also, re: three way conflict, in Aaron's current run the Avengers are pretty much already in conflict with human governments. Or, at least they're in conflict with the United States and Russia, specifically, as the Squadron Supreme (who are under the thumb of Mephisto and just don't know it yet) are the US sanctioned team and the Winter Guard are Russia's. In fact, Ross and Steve had a confrontation about it...




    So unless the X-Men declare war on humanity as a whole, making the first strike in that regard and becoming a threat to the Earth, it's doubtful the Avengers will have anything to do with the situation and will steadfastly remain Switzerland. After all, they haven't gone to war with Atlantis yet, in fact, Steve has bent over backwards to prevent a war (re: Invaders) and this is despite Namor releasing a bomb that turned some humans into Atlanteans on a small population on the East Coast. I don't know what is going on in the X-books, I don't read them, but from a consistency standpoint with other books, mainly Avengers (and Invaders), there is no indication that the Avengers have any invested interest in either sabotaging or engaging Krakoa. And even if they did (which, again, there's been no hint of) they have their hands full at the moment with whatever game of chess Mephisto is currently playing.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebunse View Post
    OK, has anyone else not brought an X-Men book for this reason?
    Post AvX and the X-Office inspired disintegration of Storm and T'Challa's marriage, I haven't touched a single X-men related book.

  3. #78
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by king of hybrids View Post
    To reiterate.m: there is no event. The X-Men are not out to get our favs and vice versa.

    An vs event would be a catastrophe sales wise, as would villanizing the X-Men. A general status quo of Cold War between the X-Men and the other marvel properties is about as antagonistic as Marvel could/should get

    Maybe even a three-way conflict between Krakoa, the human governments and the superheroes (seeing as even the Winter Guard and Ascendants have bucked the leash more than occasionally)



    Oh it is going to blow up in their face. A genuinely slighted Mystique alone will ensure that.

    The only question is when, how and whether Krakoa survives
    Honestly I think if Hickman is building up to some sort of event (be it a vs event or not), it'll probably sell well. I'm not following the sales numbers for his X-Men stuff so far but it seems like people are interested.

  4. #79
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by capandkirby View Post
    Thank you!!! I agree, 100%. History has shown this.

    Also, re: three way conflict, in Aaron's current run the Avengers are pretty much already in conflict with human governments. Or, at least they're in conflict with the United States and Russia, specifically, as the Squadron Supreme (who are under the thumb of Mephisto and just don't know it yet) are the US sanctioned team and the Winter Guard are Russia's. In fact, Ross and Steve had a confrontation about it...




    So unless the X-Men declare war on humanity as a whole, making the first strike in that regard and becoming a threat to the Earth, it's doubtful the Avengers will have anything to do with the situation and will steadfastly remain Switzerland. After all, they haven't gone to war with Atlantis yet, in fact, Steve has bent over backwards to prevent a war (re: Invaders) and this is despite Namor releasing a bomb that turned some humans into Atlanteans on a small population on the East Coast. I don't know what is going on in the X-books, I don't read them, but from a consistency standpoint with other books, mainly Avengers (and Invaders), there is no indication that the Avengers have any invested interest in either sabotaging or engaging Krakoa. And even if they did (which, again, there's been no hint of) they have their hands full at the moment with whatever game of chess Mephisto is currently playing.
    The Avengers situation is slightly different now because T'Challa is the chair person, and the X-books have had the mutants label Wakanda a hostile nation. Doesn't necessarily mean we're inevitably headed towards Avengers vs X0-Men round 2... Wakanda is perfectly capable of fighting it's own battles without the Avengers, if it even comes to that. But if we're at least discussing the possibility of an Avengers/X-Men conflict then Wakanda being flagged as a hostile nation is tough to ignroe.

  5. #80
    Mighty Member capandkirby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Honestly I think if Hickman is building up to some sort of event (be it a vs event or not), it'll probably sell well. I'm not following the sales numbers for his X-Men stuff so far but it seems like people are interested.
    It's not so much the events that don't sell (although, those, too, have rapidly declined in sales over the years, I'll dig up that chart that was circulating about it) it's the aftermath. Depending on the outcome of the event, and if any characters were villainized, the solo titles suffer as does Marvel's over-all readership.

    For example: Michele Fazekas' first issue of Captain Marvel prior to Civil War 2 sold better than the first issue of Margaret Stohl's Mighty Captain Marvel following Civil War 2.

    ...found the chart.

    Last edited by capandkirby; 11-01-2019 at 12:57 PM.

  6. #81
    Mighty Member capandkirby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    The Avengers situation is slightly different now because T'Challa is the chair person, and the X-books have had the mutants label Wakanda a hostile nation. Doesn't necessarily mean we're inevitably headed towards Avengers vs X0-Men round 2... Wakanda is perfectly capable of fighting it's own battles without the Avengers, if it even comes to that. But if we're at least discussing the possibility of an Avengers/X-Men conflict then Wakanda being flagged as a hostile nation is tough to ignroe.
    That would be contained to the X-books though, right? Because, as I've said, I'm reading the Avengers and there has been zero mention of any of this. Not a single one. So for fans like me, who are reading the Avengers, but not the X-Men, such a story would come out of left-field. Particularly, as I've stated, when the Avengers have declared that they are not aligned to any one government, Steve announced this outright.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Honestly I think if Hickman is building up to some sort of event (be it a vs event or not), it'll probably sell well. I'm not following the sales numbers for his X-Men stuff so far but it seems like people are interested.
    If he is, we’re still years away from even the rumour stages

  8. #83
    Extraordinary Member Crimz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebunse View Post
    This is true. The Avengers aren't going into this with no hope for a win. Plus, they have the Fantastic Four, probably the Guardians of the Galaxy, and whatever other teams are available and any dissenting X-Men escape the island.
    Don't be too sure of the FF coming to help the Avengers, depending on the result of X-Men/Fantastic Four. They had no problem staying out of AvX.
    Be sure to check out the Invisible Woman appreciation thread!

  9. #84
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crimz View Post
    Don't be too sure of the FF coming to help the Avengers, depending on the result of X-Men/Fantastic Four. They had no problem staying out of AvX.
    Honestly though, once the story got to the point where the X-Men imprisoned Thing in Limbo, it was pure BS that the FF stayed out of the story. Properly written, they would have at LEAST helped free Ben even if they didn't want to directly get into conflict with the X-Men. But the story wasn't Avengers and FF vs X-Men, so I sort of have to excuse it.

    But interestingly enough, the FF got more face time in this story than the Avengers did, since Reed was the one who insisted they take Sabretooth into custody in defiance of Scott claim they didn't have jurisdiction (though Scott ultimately let the FF have him).

  10. #85
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by capandkirby View Post
    That would be contained to the X-books though, right? Because, as I've said, I'm reading the Avengers and there has been zero mention of any of this. Not a single one. So for fans like me, who are reading the Avengers, but not the X-Men, such a story would come out of left-field. Particularly, as I've stated, when the Avengers have declared that they are not aligned to any one government, Steve announced this outright.
    Aaron seems to be doing his own thing, so IF theres Avengers involvement I think it's likely it would largely stay in the X-Men books. It worked that way for the most part when Hickaman was on Avengers. As they started building towards Secret Wars obviously things became to spill over, but for the bulk of Hickmans Avengers run they kind of did their own thing.

    But who knows... maybe some of this will dove tail together. During the Bendis era, several Avenger and X-Men events intersected even though both franchises were largely doing their own thing.

  11. #86
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    Honestly I think any conflict between the Avengers and Karkoa would be biased in favor the mutants. Marvel is pushing the X-line hard and Hickman seems to be the golden boy at the moment. It looks like he has free reign to do whatever he wants and if he wants the X-men to defeat the Avengers and make them the villains then I think that's the route Marvel will go.

  12. #87
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The tall man View Post
    Honestly I think any conflict between the Avengers and Karkoa would be biased in favor the mutants. Marvel is pushing the X-line hard and Hickman seems to be the golden boy at the moment. It looks like he has free reign to do whatever he wants and if he wants the X-men to defeat the Avengers and make them the villains then I think that's the route Marvel will go.
    While there's some truth to that, it's not the Avengers side which has a council half made up of super villains. Even Xavier (a good guy) is making some ARGUABLY shady decisions. So while it's certainly possible the Avengers will potrayed in a more antagonistic route (villain is probably too strong a word), I think it's pretty easy to imagine things going the other way.

  13. #88
    Extraordinary Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    *whew!*
    Quote Originally Posted by king of hybrids View Post
    Namor (an X-Man, with whom Storm has done the dirty) repeatedly laying waste to Wakanda than T’Challa. Or the tone-deafness of Storm joining what has been explicitly compared to the East India Company is just that bad
    Storm &Namor NEVER hooked up (sadly) in the 616 Even if they did WTF would it matter?? There's been Explicitly NO Comparison to Krakoa to the EIC lol how would that even start

    Quote Originally Posted by king of hybrids View Post
    Also the fact that the X-Men are now on openly on the ‘we are your new gods and we will inherit the earth’ train probably doesn’t appeal to anyone in a position to refuse the offer
    Gah! People are STILL stuck on that one throwaway line.I meeeean mutants ARE humanitys next step HENCE the animosity Thor....Hercules have all processed Godhood..why is that not irking people?


    Quote Originally Posted by chief12d View Post
    Along with the general concerns about the Hellfire Company, which is historically an evil organization that to this day involves the likes of international criminal Sebastian Shaw.
    A Company can't be Evil The Hellfire various ventures were pretty legit. It was only their Inner Circle that had nefarious intentions

    Quote Originally Posted by Things Fall Apart View Post
    Maybe it has more to do with the people pulling the strings. I can see him not being thrilled to see a council with Magneto, Apocalypse, Sinister, Mystique, and Sebastian Shaw on it.
    But he's chill with Dr. Doom? Dr. Nemesis was a Nazi but is on his team??? Captain America Just got over his bout with Nazism+ How many Earths did BP blow up during the inscursions??

    Quote Originally Posted by Things Fall Apart View Post
    Or it could be that the last time the X-Men played at nation building they killed a bunch of Wakandans and started a war.
    Ehhh After the Avengers bumbled.into sh!t that didn't involve them, and BP used his country keep an underage mutant and enemies of Avengers cosmically powered P5

    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Point being at this point it's the mutants we know are salty about the situation... how Wakandans feel about it remains to be seen.
    How are the X-Men salty? In what book did you find this? I wasn't being serious Accusing BP of saltiness. The lady at that.mutant hate meeting DOES make one think of Wakanda #jussayin


    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebunse View Post
    It just seems rather insane for the X-men, and their fans, to expect all the other heroes of just accepting the villains. Apocalypse maybe, but Sinister? Why should anyone remotely trust Sinister? When in the history of ever has thay been a good idea?
    He's killed less Mutants than the Scarlet Witch
    Soooooo
    GrindrStone(D)

  14. #89
    Mighty Member capandkirby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroHomo View Post
    *whew!*
    Storm &Namor NEVER hooked up (sadly) in the 616 Even if they did WTF would it matter?? There's been Explicitly NO Comparison to Krakoa to the EIC lol how would that even start

    Gah! People are STILL stuck on that one throwaway line.I meeeean mutants ARE humanitys next step HENCE the animosity Thor....Hercules have all processed Godhood..why is that not irking people?


    A Company can't be Evil The Hellfire various ventures were pretty legit. It was only their Inner Circle that had nefarious intentions

    But he's chill with Dr. Doom? Dr. Nemesis was a Nazi but is on his team??? Captain America Just got over his bout with Nazism+ How many Earths did BP blow up during the inscursions??

    Ehhh After the Avengers bumbled.into sh!t that didn't involve them, and BP used his country keep an underage mutant and enemies of Avengers cosmically powered P5

    How are the X-Men salty? In what book did you find this? I wasn't being serious Accusing BP of saltiness. The lady at that.mutant hate meeting DOES make one think of Wakanda #jussayin


    He's killed less Mutants than the Scarlet Witch
    Soooooo
    False equivalence. Captain America was not and never has been a nazi. Hydra!Cap was a cosmic cube created evil duplicate. The same cannot be said of Magneto, Apocalypse or Sinister, who knowingly and with full agency committed crimes against humanity AND mutants with zero remorse or empathy in their cold hearts, REPEATEDLY. Ridiculous comparison.

  15. #90
    Astonishing Member jetengine's Avatar
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    X-fans unironically stating how much they hate Scarlet Witch before asking how hero vs hero conflicts can badly effect characters.

    Lol

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